Indian Civilization, its contribution to Modern day Science and Philosopy

[Shabaz Sharif]

I haven't followed the discussion so far, I only read this last post, so maybe this is out of context.

But it is a fact that the European languages and Persian and Vedic Sanskrit (in fact, all languages between Europe and east India) had a common ancestor in the proto-indo-European language. To the best of our knowledge, it must have been spoken in afgh-pak-western India of today.

That doesn't make either civilization the forefathers of the other. It just means that many languages spoken today had a common ancestral language. And that is true for most modern language families.

People migrate, languages spread and morph into new ones. That is why we have so many languages today. It is not like any one language evolved directly into a modern one.

You seem to have head in your shoulders so i wont respond to you the way i usually do to Indians You are absolutely right about everything you said.

 

[janon]

You can change any cities you want but not blood in your veins which is Dravidian with little bit of ANI, and that little bit is the reason right now you are not in jungles like your brothers with 100% ASI.

What about the pure dravidians, they don't live in jungles either? In fact the ancient cholas and other great civiliations of south India flourished long before most parts of Europe were civilized.

You really think that it is racial purity that leads to advancement? Well, well, well.

 

[goldstruck]

You can change any cities you want but not blood in your veins which is Dravidian with little bit of ANI, and that little bit is the reason right now you are not in jungles like your brothers with 100% ASI.

You seem to take offence unnecessarily. What was so wrong in my suggestion?

This is all I said, and it is a fairly logical and balanced argument:

We should re-name a couple of cities in India to Lahore and Kasur, as they reflect our Hindu culture and religion. I would urge Pakistanis, who are no longer HIndus to change their city names to more appropriate Islamic ones.

 

[oFFbEAT]

Einstein: Indians were NOT the first to count.
Durant: Humans originated in Africa, not India.
Thoreau: Vedas are rife with sectarianism about superior Aryans v/s lesser beings.
Seilachar: oldest fossils are 3.5 billion years old in Australia.

Emerson, Bellow, Twain, and most others: subjective opinions irrelevant to a fact-based discussion.

That's enough for a first, cursory pass...

I fully agree that the IVC and others were brilliant, but there is no need to get overly emotional about these things.

The statements as listed are false, regardless of any other considerations.

You guys are making things up....intentionally trying to twist the meaning of the actual quotes....

For ex.
1. Einstein didn't say Indians were the first to count, he said Indians taught the world hw to count in the sense that we completed the counting system by introducing the concept of numeral '0'...without which, one can logically conclude that "no worthwhile scientific discovery could have been made."....it doesn't take another Einstein to understand that...

2. Will Durant didn't say humans originated in India, Scientific analysis indicate(though inconclusively) that humans might have originated in Africa.....but the African culture and phylosophy had very little impact on the world.....
Thus, when Durant says "India was the mother of our race" he meant India, as one of the first advanced civilizations of the world had huge impact on the world through its science,culture and phylosophy....He further clarifies it by saying that, "India is the mother of our Phylosophy".... which is factually correct considering that the Dharmic religions which originated in India predates the ramaining major religions which are Abrahamic and hence has influenced religions like Chritianity which came later....
He also said, India is "mother, through the Arabs, of much of our mathematics"....which is a well known fact, the Arabs took our mathematics and the Europeans learned from them......it is also corroborated by Einstein as pointed out above....

3. Scientists didn't prove conclusively from which country/continent life originated....it is an ongoing process....
So, in fields like these, new discoveries are exiting and often considered to be a game changer until the next discovery is made...
It is clearly stated that the fossil unearthed in India by Seilachar and co. is One Billion year old, at that time it was the oldest so people thought history of evolution of life is going to be changed, now, after the oldest(so far) fossil being unearthed in Australia, people will think the same until the nest discovery....

I can explain all the quotes.....but it'll take time...

So you see, none of the quotes are not 'false' as such, you only need to understand these knowledgeable people who were well renowned in their respective fields...... keeping your prejudices aside....

 

[Shabaz Sharif]

My point in my post to which you responded was that there were initial group whom I referred to as the NIs (North Indians). There are claims that these NIs either migrated to the South to form the ASIs alternatively that the ASIs migrated from possibly the Andaman Islands. The meeting of the NIs and the Central Asians resulted in the ANIs. Hence you would find multiple genetic makeup in the ANIs whereas the ASIs have a fewer linked genetic makeup

So ANI group originated in India? Not another OIT crap please. Pure ANI was completely different and not like populations of India today who have 60-70% ASI component in them. Just like pure ASI is different and thankfully we have examples of them because they were cut off by islands.

 

[PlanetWarrior]

So ANI group originated in India? Not another OIT crap please. Pure ANI was completely different and not like populations of India today who have 60-70% ASI component in them. Just like pure ASI is different and thankfully we have examples of them because they were cut off by islands.

How did you measure the genetic makeup of "pure ANIs" genius? Did you do a genetic test on them when they first merged with the outsiders ?

 

[Shabaz Sharif]

What about the pure dravidians, they don't live in jungles either? In fact the ancient cholas and other great civiliations of south India flourished long before most parts of Europe were civilized.

You really think that it is racial purity that leads to advancement? Well, well, well.

Pure ASI are Adamanese people still living in Islands for thousands of years. The first people to come to India. Rest of Indian population have ASI-ANI component. Anyway as i said i wont respond to you the way i usually does, these posts are for RSS nuts.

How did you measure the genetic makeup of "pure ANIs" genius? Did you do a genetic test on them when they first merged with the outsiders ?

Did you even read the study i posted?

"Most Indian groups descend from a mixture of two genetically divergent populations: Ancestral North Indians (ANI) related to Central Asians, Middle Easterners, Caucasians, and Europeans; and Ancestral South Indians (ASI) not closely related to groups outside the subcontinent. The date of mixture is unknown but has implications for understanding Indian history. We report genome-wide data from 73 groups from the Indian subcontinent and analyze linkage disequilibrium to estimate ANI-ASI mixture dates ranging from about 1,900 to 4,200 years ago. In a subset of groups, 100% of the mixture is consistent with having occurred during this period. These results show that India experienced a demographic transformation several thousand years ago, from a region in which major population mixture was common to one in which mixture even between closely related groups became rare because of a shift to endogamy."


By the that DNA study did take years and didnt come from RSS school.

http://www.cell.com/AJHG/fulltext/S0002-9297(13)00324-8

 

[Shabaz Sharif]

You seem to take offence unnecessarily. What was so wrong in my suggestion?

This is all I said, and it is a fairly logical and balanced argument:

As i said Kasur & Lahore are historical cities just like many dozens of other Pakistani cities because Vedic Civilization started there. By changing their names you dont change their history. By naming Indian cities after Pakistani cities wont make them part of Vedic. So after renouncing ancestry and now changing cities name so you guys can claim to be aryans, whats left?

 

[INDIC]

As i said Kasur & Lahore are historical cities just like many dozens of other Pakistani cities because Vedic Civilization started there. By changing their names you dont change their history. By naming Indian cities after Pakistani cities wont make them part of Vedic. So after renouncing ancestry and now changing cities name so you guys can claim to be aryans, whats left?

Recently Pakistanis were protesting against naming a roundabout in Lahore on Bhagat Singh because he was not a Muslim freedom fighter.

 

[oFFbEAT]

Many of the quotes are either altered or fake, just like the "36% of scientists at NASA are Indians" article. They are all over the internet.

First you need to understand the difference between 'quotes' and 'comments'.....dumb Chinese....

36% of scientists at NASA(if it is true) is a real possibility keeping in mind that almost 64% of the 'intellectual VISA'(H-1B) holders in America are Indians....
Biggest Brain Drains: India Gets Nearly Two-Thirds of U.S. H-1Bs - Bloomberg

We have proof, we're not like Chinese thieves, lying through their teeth, trying to steal others achievements, claiming that they knew the use of '0'.....
But this is generic to the Chinese...so we're not surprised.....

 

[Shabaz Sharif]

Recently Pakistanis were protesting against naming a roundabout in Lahore on Bhagat Singh because he was not a Muslim freedom fighter.

Did anyone protest to change names of dozens infact almost all of Pakistani cities, villages have ancient names and still the same.

 

[Developereo]

You guys are making things up....intentionally trying to twist the meaning of the actual quotes....

Wrong. It is you who keeps shifting the goalposts.

The quoted statements are clear, and clearly wrong. They may have been the wisdom of the day when they were made, but it doesn't make them correct in light of modern knowledge, e.g. human origins, oldest fossil, etc.

As regards the number zero, it was known and used around the world before Indian contribution. The Indian contribution was important, but it is arrogant and disrespectful to suggest that it was the most important factor in the evolution of mathematics.

Bottom line, I am not denying the contribution of people from this region; what I am disputing is the "Out of India" types of claims which denigrate other cultures around the world and claim that everything originated here and radiated out.

 

[goldstruck]

As i said Kasur & Lahore are historical cities just like many dozens of other Pakistani cities because Vedic Civilization started there. By changing their names you dont change their history. By naming Indian cities after Pakistani cities wont make them part of Vedic. So after renouncing ancestry and now changing cities name so you guys can claim to be aryans, whats left?

I dont care about aryan/dravidian. Considering that I have had people in Germany come up to me and start speaking in german, i can tell you i am more fair-skinned/causcasoid than 99.99% Pakistanis. But its not something I really care about to be honest, to me its just a colour.

I care about hindu/muslim. And I do not appreciate Pakistan claiming Hindu history when they no longer are so...

 

[Shabaz Sharif]

I dont care about aryan/dravidian. Considering that I have had people in Germany come up to me and start speaking in german, i can tell you i am more fair-skinned/causcasoid than 99.99% Pakistanis. But its not something I really care about to be honest, to me its just a colour.

I care about hindu/muslim. And I do not appreciate Pakistan claiming Hindu history when they no longer are so...

Yep i dont doubt that, because germans have Indian ancesters after all. And i dont have to claim, renounce, or change names. The history is already ours, its in our blood and you cant change that.

 

[Fattyacids]

First you need to understand the difference between 'quotes' and 'comments'.....dumb Chinese....

36% of scientists at NASA(if it is true) is a real possibility keeping in mind that almost 64% of the 'intellectual VISA'(H-1B) holders in America are Indians....
Biggest Brain Drains: India Gets Nearly Two-Thirds of U.S. H-1Bs - Bloomberg

We have proof, we're not like Chinese thieves, lying through their teeth, trying to steal others achievements, claiming that they knew the use of '0'.....
But this is generic to the Chinese...so we're not surprised.....

Your stupidity and shamelessness knows no boundary

India rising in US: Govt falls victim to net hoax - Times Of India

WASHINGTON: It's an Internet myth that has taken on a life of its own. No matter how often you slay this phony legend, it keeps popping up again like some hydra-headed beast.

But on Monday, the Indian government itself consecrated the oft-circulated fiction as fact in Parliament, possibly laying itself open to a breach of privilege. By relaying to Rajya Sabha members (as reported in The Times of India) a host of unsubstantiated and inflated figures about Indian professionals in US, the government also made a laughing stock of itself.
If that's not proof enough of Indian scientific and corporate prowess, digest this: 34% employees at Microsoft, 28% at IBM, 17% at Intel and 13% at Xerox are Indians.

And the House of Elders also heard some startling facts about a country that's still stuck with a Third World tag — 20% of gold in the world is used by Indians and nine out of 10 diamonds used in the world are made in India.

The figures of Indian successes were given to the Rajya Sabha on Monday by D Purandeshwari, minister of state for HRD, in defence of the country's higher education system and the state of research.

Purandeshwari said that although a lot needed to be done to encourage research, it was wrong to run down the country's higher education system since most Indians who excelled abroad were products of Indian institutions.

He said there was no slackness in research and the number of PhD holders had gone up from 17,898 two years back to 18,730 last year.

The minister also listed initiatives taken to encourage research, especially in science. Apart from creating 1,000 positions of research scientists at various levels, she said draft norms to create 10 networking centres in basic sciences in leading departments of universities were being prepared. It would help in promoting collaborative research and give access to advanced facilities.

Also, all postgraduate programmes pertaining to science and technology would have an in-built component of research. The University Grants Commission is also identifying performing universities so that they can be given 50 fellowships to carry out research in basic sciences.

"This minister (D.Purandeshwari, Minister of State for HRD)... should be held accountable for misleading the members of parliament and the citizens of India. This just shows how illiterate and mentally defunct the current Indian govt. is," wrote Anand from Melbourne.

Purandeshwari is not the first minister to use the dubious figures in a system where politicians depend heavily on their bureaucrats to furnish facts, figures, and speeches. Former home minister L.K.Advani used the same figures in a speech some years back on a visit to Washington DC.