Indian Army's Muslim headcount: 3%

[graphican]

@Screaming Skull

Regarding the credibility of the report, let me quote an extract from the blog.

"There is no official report. However, the strength of Muslims is roughly around 3 % and the figure comes around 29,000 in the million-strong Indian army, according to News Channel CNN IBN's programme titled Minority Report."

CNN-IBN is not another news channel around the corner and blog has name of the TV Program (Minority Report) in which this information is shared. So as far as I see, its not an opinion of an individual and such channel must have some finding behind that. Being an Indian, you are in position to challenge their findings and I would like to see some of you doing so. But until somebody does so, the information would remain "unchallenged" and "unquestioned".

This is indeed a serious matter for India and I would expect Indian Army would not touch such demographic aspects ever. I respect your effort of finding list of Muslims who got awarded and they would've been awarded for performance, no question on that. Question is that why 77.6% Muslim share (according to their population) is absent from the army? Its remains a fact that staggering majority of Muslims always Identify themselves Muslims before National of any country and this also holds true for Pakistan (you would remember Musharaf had put "Pakistan First" slogan to cash more on patriotism and in spite of huge campaign failed to do so). Muslims in India are a special case because India has been divided on the basis of religion only 60 years back. So what is making them stay away here? Weak Patriotism? Sense of Insecurity or the fear of sin they would commit by standing against Pakistan for which they sacrificed 4 million lives?

 

[graphican]

Oh really?......do u know what is the meaning of white stripe in Pakistani flag??? can u show us the meaning of that white stripe in Pakistan Army recruitement??? then talk about India!

My friend, White Strip represents minority and 25% of the flag is dedicated to show that. But still, Pakistan is a Muslim Stage. Key posts, like post of Prime Minister, President, Chief of the Army etc can only be a Muslim. Only a year back, we had Rana Bhagwan Dass as our Chief Justic and he is one of the most respected judges of the Supreme Court. Muslims are in 96% of population in Pakistan and we claim to be a Muslim Country with Muslim Army. We do have non-muslims in the army but in case they are not, its not contradictory. What point do you want to make by bringing the flag in discussion?

How would you defend your Secular Indian Image when 96% of your army is Hindu? If so, admit India is a Hindu state with Hindu Army.

 

[xebex]

The presence of Indian Muslims in different fields including Indian army is linked to education and their social status.

The condition of Indian Muslims is so poor indeed with poverty level touching the ground they cant have any education nor can climb the lader.

And few percent who are educated can not find the trust of their majority fellow Hindu Indians to induct them into intellegence agencies or other such fields.

So whats the big deal if they are in small numbers in Indian army.
And even if they find way to armed forces there they are subjected to discrimination in some fields like Muslim officers are not allowed in Indian airforc to keep beard while the Sikh IAF members are allowed to keep.

Pathetic argument without doing much research on the subject. I strongly reccomend you to google about Asim Premji before talk BS about Indian muslims. for u to know.......from 1999 to 2005 he was the RICHEST man in India. Am afraid his total assets is more than that of the 10 most richest people in Pakistan COMBINED. Think twice before portraying Indian muslims in low profile.

Azim Premji - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

File:Indian Muslims.png - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Pakistan Richest's Man (Top Ten) - Forumpk

 

[graphican]

Pathetic argument without doing much research on the subject. I strongly reccomend you to google about Asim Premji before talk BS about Indian muslims. for u to know.......from 1999 to 2005 he was the RICHEST man in India. Am afraid his total assets is more than that of the 10 most richest people in Pakistan COMBINED. Think twice before portraying Indian muslims in low profile.

Azim Premji - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

File:Indian Muslims.png - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Pakistan Richest's Man (Top Ten) - Forumpk

What a dumb head! Is riches of one person justification of 77.6% absence of Muslims from Indian Army! LOL..

 

[xebex]

What a dumb head! Is riches of one person justification of 77.6% absence of Muslims from Indian Army! LOL..

now i know who is the dumb head here. have u ever heard of the word OPPERTUNITY my friend?. Asim premji and Dr.Abdul Kalam(Former Supreme Commander of Indian Armed Forces) are the breathing examples.

PS: that was a nice try tho!

 

[Tango25]

Firstly, the great Indian Army doesn't need to defend its image from insignificant trolls like you.

Secondly, the Indian Army, unlike the Pakistan Army, does not use religious theology to motivate its ranks. Its sole loyalty is towards the country and the President, and not towards allah or bhagwan.

Thirdly, Sikhs make up roughly 10-15% of the army. So you'd want to take that into consideration before rattling off statistics.

How would you defend your Secular Indian Image when 96% of your army is Hindu? If so, admit India is a Hindu state with Hindu Army.

 

[xebex]

@ Tango25

welcome to this forum mate. i see u havent introduced urself in the member's introduction section yet. please do so.That way we all can formally welcome you. thanks!

 

[paritosh]

What a dumb head! Is riches of one person justification of 77.6% absence of Muslims from Indian Army! LOL..

as xebex rightly pointed it out...if one muslim can go on to become one of the richest india without being stopped by the 'hindu' state...there is no reason why the other 150 million can't.
I see living examples every day in my city.

 

[vsdoc]

All I see here and other places where some of our Pakistani brothers have tried to stir up the "oppressed minority Indian Muslim" card is plain and simple resentment.

Pakistan was formed on the flawed surmise that Muslims would be persecuted by the "Hindu majority" and hence the need for a separate nation.

The entire concept received its first rude reality check during Partition itself when the number of Muslims who voluntarily chose the concept of a united secular India over Islamic Pakistan outnumbered those who went over to the other side.

The resentment evident in the voices and posts of some of our Pakistani brothers here (and elsewhere) today is that the Indian Muslim community since those days has actually increased in number to where India is the second largest Muslim population in the world today ...... and NO, Pakistan is not the first, the Indian Muslim is far happier in India than the Pakistani Muslim in Pakistan, he lives in a far more prosperous, advanced and safer country, he and his women and children are far less likely to be killed/maimed/dismembered/raped than if his ancestors had chosen the cross border march in 1947, and all this while still having as much if not more freedom to practice his religion as the muslim in Pakistan (read Shiite or Ahmadi) as GUARANTEED to him by his Government and his country's Constitution.

Small wonder that the Indian Muslim today blesses his forefathers for making the right choice 62 years ago. And these blessings spring forth afresh every time he lifts the newspaper or sees the news and reads about Pakistan and the situation there ..... all over the country ...... where 96% are Muslims incidentally.

Smaller wonder at the resentment seeping out of manufactured flame threads such as these.

Face it guys ..... Pakistan as Jinnah wanted it ..... for whatever reason ...... is an idea whose time never came. And regardless of whether even one of you would admit it, you guys would have been far better off today as united Indians than what faces your country at the present time and stares at you in the near future.

BOTTOM LINE: A happy, prosperous, well adjusted, mainstream, patriotic Indian Muslism gives lie to the entire concept of a separate Islamic Pakistan, and as such will never ever be admitted to by any Pakistani, regardless of what he actually knows to be true in his heart of hearts, and definitely not openly on an open forum in front of us Indians.

Coming to the topic being discussed, the Indian armed forces fight for India. Voluntarily. They are Indians. And they are respected and remembered as Indians. There has never been and never will be any Religious profiling or "census" of any sort in our armed forces .... "Nationality: INDIAN" is all that is needed and wanted. And let me assure you that when they pull the trigger, they see the enemy as someone that needs to be destroyed ("barbaad" is the term our NSG used for Kasab and his brothers) ..... plain and simple ..... and the religion of the enemy causes not a milisecond of hesitation before the trigger is pulled and a fitting reply is given.

These are my personal opinions, and are no doubt shared by many (if not ALL) Indians here as well. You are free to agree or otherwise.

Cheers, Doc

 

[eastwatch]

now dont come to conclusions.......in india the remaing muslims are busy making missiles for the indian army



"True muslim"- is a word i ve failed to understand.....i ve seen too many people who claim to be true muslims.....including taliban ......

And you dont have any authority to even assess the belief of our indian muslim brothers in god........god himself can do that........

i still dont understand who gives people the authority to say that this person is a believer and this person is not........if you think you believe in god it doesnt mean that you are a true believer and the other is not--------false beliefs of superiority like the one that you have is what makes organisations like the taliban..,al queda consider them selves having the authority of deciding true believers.....just give up this cheap mentality of estimating the level of others beliefs because you dont have that authority

Yes, exactly. Where is the authority to certify who is a true believer.

 

[blueoval79]

"SO MUCH hullabaloo was made over the so-called census of Muslims in Indian Army. The figure was just 3 % that comes around 29,000 in the million-strong army, according to CNN IBN news channel's programme Minority Report.

If the number of Muslims serving in J& K infantry that has over 50% Muslims and those in other wings not directly dealing with warfare, the proportion is definitely too low. So out of a Muslim population of nearly 150 million (15 crore), barely 29,000 Muslims were found suitable for Army."

Reference: http://www.anindianmuslim.com

Buddy,

When you initiate such a dumb thread...be honest ...at least try and copy paste the entire Blog Entry... and not what you want to ....

Let me help you...


Indian Army's Muslim headcount: 3% or just 29,000
So much hue and cry was made over the so-called census of Muslims in Indian Army. After the Sachar panel's indication that the number of Muslims in the armed forces could be sought, there was opposition from several sections against the proposed headcount.

There is no official report. However, the strength of Muslims is roughly around 3 % and the figure comes around 29,000 in the million-strong Indian army, according to news channel CNN IBN's programme titled Minority Report.

If the number of Muslims serving in Jammu and Kashmir (J&K) infantry that has over 50% Muslims and those in other wings not directly dealing with warfare are excluded, the proportion is definitely too low. So out of a Muslim population of nearly 150 million (15 crore), barely 29,000 Muslims were found suitable for Army.

These figures neither make me happy nor sad. The fact remains that if competent, a Muslim can rise in India to the highest position in any services including army, and has more chances than any other country.

This is my belief despite all the charges of discrimination, communal riots and experiences of bias. There are Muslim officers serving in Indian army at senior levels. IH Latif rose to the position of Air Chief Marshal.


You Picked up what suits your propaganda and left the good part.
You must have seen this entry as well but you conveniently missed it..

Let me help you once again....

Read the entire entry here:
An Indian Muslim's Blog: News, Daily Articles, Views on Muslims & Urdu poetry website: Indian Muslims are away from extremist influences because...

It would be better if we have a Sticky thread here on PDF titled..INDIA BASHING so that whenever any one wants to vent out against India he could do so conveniently.

 

[Su 30mki]

Yes, exactly. Where is the authority to certify who is a true believer.

A person who consider is Country first and then religion is suited of country army. weather its mulims , hindu or sikh etc.

A person who consider Muslim first and then consider country is not good for country.

 

[haawk]

@haawk,

There are Muslims in Baluchistan who have joined hands with Jews and are deluded to be on the right path. No one is judge but the Book of God and Ahadith of Prophet Muhammad PBUH. What kind of "Hindu that would be that would fight against other hindus and would prepare to assesinate them, would build messiles to destroy them in thousands and would try to eliminate from earth followers of his own faith" ? You dont need to be a propet to understand simple relegious values. For Muslims, a person who is following book of God and Ahadith, would be on the right path, even if he is among Al-Qaida, Taliban, Working in Indian Nuclear Laboratories or Standing on Indian Border Carying Guns towards Pakistan. Criteria is just one, Book of God and Ahadith of Peophet PBUH. Period. Dont listen to what everybody is saying, Read the Quraan and Ahadith to know the rules. The one who follows them fully is on the right path. And book of God and Ahadith tell us clearly, Yahood and Hanood would never be your friends, they never where and they never will become! Learn, Its not that we are asked not to be your friend but its your reality that's being told! You have one life to prove if Quraan is right or your own Mentality! Go on and take the challenge!

the problem withyou is you look at everything in terms of religion.....you ask what kind of a hindu would fight against a hindu ?and what kind of a muslim would fight against a muslim?

well the reason you have this view is because you are completely lost in religeon.........there are evil people in people of all faith be it hindu, be it muslim or christians......

the only thing that should be looked upon would be the righteousness of an individual.....he does not require to belong to a paticular religeon to be good.....

the muslims of india would build missiles to not destroy people of the same faith but people who are a threat to their homelands .....
then if not your army should not be fighting the taliban because they are of your faith...but still they are doing it coz they are a threat to you!!!!!

no religeon gives you the authority to kill people of other faith too ,,even islam says that you have to protect people of other faith......all that a religeon says is ....cause no harm ....remember religeons have been created to lead man in the right path , to make him understand that there is a superior being that would judge him ......this makes a man righteous .....but it does not mean that people have to follw a religeon to be righteous . you just have to be true to yourself ...
you have to come out of the encolsed sphere that you have created around you and think liberally from everyones point of view to understand a lot of things in life......

 

[arihant]

In India, there are around 1% Jains, but I hardly think anyone Jain be in Army reason is that Jain are Businessmen.

 

[Screaming Skull]

@Screaming Skull

Regarding the credibility of the report, let me quote an extract from the blog.

"There is no official report. However, the strength of Muslims is roughly around 3 % and the figure comes around 29,000 in the million-strong Indian army, according to News Channel CNN IBN's programme titled Minority Report."

CNN-IBN is not another news channel around the corner and blog has name of the TV Program (Minority Report) in which this information is shared. So as far as I see, its not an opinion of an individual and such channel must have some finding behind that. Being an Indian, you are in position to challenge their findings and I would like to see some of you doing so. But until somebody does so, the information would remain "unchallenged" and "unquestioned".

With all due respect sir, the blog does not give a link to the details of the original program in print or video. I will be grateful if you can find the original source and provide me with a link for that before educating me on the credibility of CNN IBN. I never questioned the credibility of the aforementioned news channel. Instead I only expressed my amazement at your blind faith in another nameless netizen who has posted some random info in his blog. How do you know that the original program didn’t mention 13% or 30% of Muslims in Indian Army? How do you know that this nameless netizen actually comprehended the info properly? Heck how do you even know that this blogger is mentally sane? Please don’t do so much injustice to your intelligence. As I mentioned in my previous post, neither the Army nor GoI have made the numbers public to anyone. So, it doesn’t matter if CNN IBN reports these numbers or CIA, it is never going to be accurate for an Army as large as the IA.

This is indeed a serious matter for India and I would expect Indian Army would not touch such demographic aspects ever. I respect your effort of finding list of Muslims who got awarded and they would've been awarded for performance, no question on that.

That wasn’t me. Maybe some other poster! But, still since you have directed this reply at me I will try to address some of the points you raised here.

Question is that why 77.6% Muslim share (according to their population) is absent from the army? Its remains a fact that staggering majority of Muslims always Identify themselves Muslims before National of any country and this also holds true for Pakistan (you would remember Musharaf had put "Pakistan First" slogan to cash more on patriotism and in spite of huge campaign failed to do so). Muslims in India are a special case because India has been divided on the basis of religion only 60 years back. So what is making them stay away here? Weak Patriotism? Sense of Insecurity or the fear of sin they would commit by standing against Pakistan for which they sacrificed 4 million lives?

Another ridiculous conclusion you have drawn on the basis of some ridiculous info in an obscure blog. But anyway since, you attach so much importance to this blog, I would like to quote the part from the blog that you wishfully truncated in your first post-

If the number of Muslims serving in Jammu and Kashmir (J&K) infantry that has over 50% Muslims…….

Guess what? At least this info is absolutely correct! The J&K Light Infantry does comprise of 50% Muslims and this fact can be easily verified from the Indian Army website here-

The regiment has 50 percent Muslims and 50 percent other ethnic groups of the state of J&K.

http://www.indianarmy.nic.in/infantry/inf_jakli.html

Here is the history of this regiment-

India's first Light Infantry Regiment was born out of the "peoples response" in 1947, to the invasion of Kashmir by Pakistan. In the difficult days of the invasion, the population formed local defence groups. These were later organised into militias responsible for specific sectors, eg; Leh, Nubra, Jammu, Punch etc. Over a period, these were grouped into Militia battalions. Two of these were later converted into the LADAKH SCOUTS.. The militia battalions operated with skill on the Line of Control, and in the 1971 War with Pakistan earned three battle honours. In 1972, the militia battalions were brought on par with the army units, and in 1976 designated the JAMMU & KASHMIR LIGHT INFANTRY . Since then, battalions of the Light Infantry have served with honour in different parts of the country , in Sri Lanka and part of the United Nations Force in Somalia. Appropriately, a battalion of the Regiment earned great honour in operations at 21,000 feet in the Siachen Glacier. The 8th JAK LI earned great honour by capturing a Pakistani post at 21,000 feet at the Siachen Glacier in 1987. Naib Subedar Bana Singh, 8th JAK LI, earned the Param Vir Chakra for the Regiment in this battle. He is the first and only recipient of the PVC for the Regiment.

• Battle Honours: Laleali, Piequet 707, Shingo River Valley and Gutrain.
• Honours & Awards: 1 Param Vir Chakra, 10 Maha Vir Chakras, 34 Vir Chakras, 4 Shaurya Chakras and 56 Sena Medals.

So, the J&K Light Infantry comprising of 50% Muslims from the State of Jammu & Kashmir has fought numerous battles with Pakistan since 1947 and brought laurels to the country. They have never had any qualms about fighting the Pakistan Army ever and this can be summarized from their motto- ”Balidanam Vir Lakshanam (Sacrifice is a Sign of the Brave)”. They are brave men of the IA and will sacrifice anything for their nation. I think these facts should be enough to disprove your apprehensions about Indian Muslims in the Indian Army.

As far as the fewer numbers of Muslims in the IA is concerned (mind you I will never believe it is as small as 3% until you prove it with a credible source), I have addressed it in my previous post. It is primarily due the unintentional skewed recruitment procedures of the IA that has been going on since the british-colonial era. It is succinctly addressed by Col. Athale (retd.) of the IA-

It is undoubtedly true that the number of Muslims in the Army is less than their proportion in the population. This is a historical legacy as the recruitment of Muslims in the armed forces in pre-Independence India was concentrated in Punjab, North West Frontier and Balochistan, all part of Pakistan today.

A similar argument can be also made on the basis of region. The states of Orissa or Gujarat or even Andhra Pradesh are not represented in proportion to their population. To assume any bias on this basis is to see evil where none exists.

Muslims in the Army: A dangerous census

In essence never cast apprehensions on the patriotism of an Indian Muslim who is no less patriotic than the most patriotic Hindu/Christian/Sikh of India. They have demonstrated their patriotism towards their country on far too many occasions for anyone to point a finger at them!