Indian Army to get new Sniper rifles for LoC on 20th January: COAS

[Viny]

PSG-1 was designed for the Police.

Pakistan Army Licensed H&K G3 and POF produced the same
Azb DMR-MK1 is a variant of H&K G3A3 which people claim to be Pakistan developed DMR
Also PSR90 used by Pakistan Army majorly is a variant of H&K PSG-1 produced under license from H&K.

Military version PSG-1 is named as MSG90, both India and Pakistan used variant of same.

 

[graphican]

Thank you for INVENTING the ART OF SNIPING...

You are welcome for discovering art of snipping from Pakistan. Perhaps nothing else made you learn it - but wherever and however it came to your awareness, good that you finally discovered it existed.

 

[jhungary]

Do snipers ever get captured alive as POWs?

Are they treated any differently to a normal POW?

Are the Geneva Conventions different in any way for snipers?

@jhungary @denel @gambit @fatman17 @third eye

Cheers, Doc

There are two question here.

1) What is the different between a sniper and a Designated Marksman (DM)
2) Was sniper treated differently in war?

The answer

1.) Sniper is a very much completely different concept than a DM, with the only common thing amongst the two are their shooting skill. However, being good in shooting would make you a good marksman, not necessarily a good sniper.

In the US Military (Not LEA or other Military) Sniper is a person or team (when you deploy as a sniper team) we would call a ISR asset. They are mostly hidden and they are often just used as observer because they are more valuable to work as an observer than to shoot people. For that to work, sniper don't just need very good shooting skill, but also how to conceal themselves and also know how to tag target, a sniper with a laser det and a radio wade themselves in silently inside your enemy territories would be more deadly than just with a pair of sniper rifles. However, sniper can also be used in direct action mission, namely assassination mission behind enemy line.

Most Sniper were deployed with Special Force group or Special Operation Capable unit. And usually used for LRRP type patrol.

On the other hand, marksman in the army is the person who engage in standoff target. That is usually target your individual weapon (Small arms) cannot reach, each platoon would have 1 or 2 DM that have the best weapon score and will be giving a DMR on top of their TO&E equipment (So they can have their M4 or M249 carry normally and switch to M110 or M24SWS when they are needed) Those people are not sniper by definition, DM only give you a ranged edge on your enemy. You can either use them to support and offensive or use them to secure a egress route if you have to bug out.

Most DM are embedded in squad or platoon base unit. They are mostly used for forward deployed operation.

Now, as for whether or not India have hundreds of trained sniper, I have no idea, I am not familiar with the IA personnel and structure.

2.) A sniper deployed in frontline or behind enemy line are usually protected by Geneva convention, given if he identified himself as an enemy combatant, and carry proper documentation (like CAC card) however, if your enemy capture a sniper in Direct Action mission, chances are they will not be identified as combatant and either class as common criminal or insurgent, and they could be executed if they were captured as Geneva convention does not applies in those circumstance.

 

[padamchen]

There are two question here.

1) What is the different between a sniper and a Designated Marksman (DM)
2) Was sniper treated differently in war?

The answer

1.) Sniper is a very much completely different concept than a DM, with the only common thing amongst the two are their shooting skill. However, being good in shooting would make you a good marksman, not necessarily a good sniper.

In the US Military (Not LEA or other Military) Sniper is a person or team (when you deploy as a sniper team) we would call a ISR asset. They are mostly hidden and they are often just used as observer because they are more valuable to work as an observer than to shoot people. For that to work, sniper don't just need very good shooting skill, but also how to conceal themselves and also know how to tag target, a sniper with a laser det and a radio wade themselves in silently inside your enemy territories would be more deadly than just with a pair of sniper rifles. However, sniper can also be used in direct action mission, namely assassination mission behind enemy line.

Most Sniper were deployed with Special Force group or Special Operation Capable unit. And usually used for LRRP type patrol.

On the other hand, marksman in the army is the person who engage in standoff target. That is usually target your individual weapon (Small arms) cannot reach, each platoon would have 1 or 2 DM that have the best weapon score and will be giving a DMR on top of their TO&E equipment (So they can have their M4 or M249 carry normally and switch to M110 or M24SWS when they are needed) Those people are not sniper by definition, DM only give you a ranged edge on your enemy. You can either use them to support and offensive or use them to secure a egress route if you have to bug out.

Most DM are embedded in squad or platoon base unit. They are mostly used for forward deployed operation.

Now, as for whether or not India have hundreds of trained sniper, I have no idea, I am not familiar with the IA personnel and structure.

2.) A sniper deployed in frontline or behind enemy line are usually protected by Geneva convention, given if he identified himself as an enemy combatant, and carry proper documentation (like CAC card) however, if your enemy capture a sniper in Direct Action mission, chances are they will not be identified as combatant and either class as common criminal or insurgent, and they could be executed if they were captured as Geneva convention does not applies in those circumstance.

Thank you so much for that beautifully explained post sir.

So just to clarify, if the DM gets a normal issue gun and a sniper gun, it is he who has to carry both?

By direct action (assassination) I'm assuming he would ñot be in unofoun. Is that the main criterion or simply having your official ID card?

Cheers, Doc

 

[jhungary]

Thank you so much for that beautifully explained post sir.

So just to clarify, if the DM gets a normal issue gun and a sniper gun, it is he who has to carry both?

By direct action (assassination) I'm assuming he would ñot be in unofoun. Is that the main criterion or simply having your official ID card?

Cheers, Doc

DM is a regular soldier, in a platoon, every soldier was issued with their standard equipment we called TO&E (Table of Organisation and Equipment), it's worth notice that DM is not exactly an official position within the Army (Like Commanding Officer, Executive Officer, Platoon leader, Platoon Sergeant, Squad Leader, Fireteam Leader and so on), this is a temporary position you give to your number 1 and 2 shooter in a platoon, and with that, you also requisite a DMR (like M110 or SR-25 or Mk 12) for them to carry extra in the battlefield.

In the old days, we don't actually acquire separate DMR to our marksmen, we simply gave our scope to them, it may seems strange for you now, but back in early 2000, not everyone have scope like ACOG, and accessories with your M4 is allotted, so if you are an grernadier, you will be given a M203 and if you are a platoon leader, or rifleman, you get a standard handgrip, and scope are allotted to top marksman in a fireteam. But now, everyTom, Dick and Jerry have a ACOG, and today weapon are quite different. Which mean you can acquire a M110 or SR-25 for your DM.

So yes, if my top shooter in my platoon is a grenadier, then he will carry his M4/M203 as his standard weapon and have a M110 or SR-25 stash somewhere in his Humvee, so when I need him to engage outside my range, he can quickly switch.

And Special Force working Direct Action mission usually wore civilian clothes or sanitized uniform (which is the same as civilian clothes as it does not identify your unit, rank and name.) and not wear dogtags. So yes, if you were captured behind enemy lines in a direct action mission, you cannot identify yourself as a combatant.

 

[thesolar65]

I am no military person, haven't seen a desi pistol, leave aside a sniper rifle (only in movies and internet). But due to curious, I went through the thread and also studied what a sniper is and does. From wiki of course.

What @Horus said is correct.
They have been investing in snipers since last 20 years. So I calculated back. It was Kargil era. So Gen Musaraf took this sniper business seriously?

Why he took this seriously and started investing? It's obvious. But why Indians(we) did not invest? We were dumbass and naive. Our generals thought we could defeat them in any war front to front whenever it comes. But they did not know that enemy does not want to fight war but to create terror and that's precisely what they have been doing.

Snipers are used in wars or say city invasion or say where there is assymetry warfare like in Iraq, Afganistan etc. But India and Pakistan are not in war, So why the use of sniper? Even both N Korea and S Korean do not use snipers even when they are technically were at war? No neighbouring country uses ssnipers against its neighbour even if they don't have good relations.

Soldiers patrolling inside their border gets sniped from across and its hailed as a great achievement a morale booster to be exact when the loss on the otherside mounts.

They kill one on this side knowing that next day news papers will have headlines. But when you kill one from that that side, there is no news. You don't know whom you killed! A soldier, a civilian or a person belonging to LET of JEM or HM?

Yes what @Horus said is 100% correct. You cannot produce a sniper by just buying the weapon. It needs lot of practice.....may be one or more years of training, because it usually consists of two teams. What he said Pakistan has got some 50 plus excellent snipers. If you take two as a team and the sniper range as two Kms., they have covered 50Km of border.

But he @Horus and other PDF commentators should also think that, we have started this dirty war training whether this is ethical or not. It may take time to produce some cold hearted killers....even some prodigals may come up soon. But life will also become hard on the otherside also later if not sooner.

@firestorm7777 @Darwin @randomradio @padamchen @Tshering22

 

[GumNaam]

We already have hundreds of trained snipers.
While our special forces already have excellent Israeli and Finnish sniper rifles our infantry units needed a replacement for Dragunov mk2.

and the indian army still can't score kills...its not the dragunov rifle that sucks...its the retarded asswipe that's holding it. the new rifles pimping rawat is talking about isn't gonna change anything, it'll still be the same retarded asswipe that'll be holding it! the afghan taliban pulled off wonders with the same dragunov that the indian farts keep escape goating.