Indian army running short of ammunition

[AbhijitSingh]

Just sayin... How little does it take to get our Pakistani Bros all happy and excited.. well, they say, Ignorance is Bliss

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Just sayin... How little does it take to get our Pakistani Bros all happy and excited.. well, they say, Ignorance is Bliss

excitement? bliss? ammo? sorry mate what are you on about?
why not make yourself clear on your main account?

you really had to create a new ID to mourn over our ignorance? well mourn over some of your fellow Indians too because they are advocating to blacklist the Indian defense suppliers who have caused this debacle

 

[Irfan Baloch]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

My god....what has gone wrong with you people....Alright let me help here....Our Army Chief is a liar and along with that we are incompetent as well...Now let's get back to discussion rather then proving a point...

dont be so defeatist my dear,

Americans are looking for someone reliable to take on the Chinese, they dont want someone to run out of steam at the time of need.

 

[SamantK]

and this thread has been a truly remarkable example of them living in denial. If (like Nitin did about post 100) they accepted there was a major issue with either the chief not being honest or there was a shortage of ammunition then we could have all moved on.
However Indians have to show their stubborness - even those seasoned campaigners in denying denying and denying to the point of bringing Kargil, suicide bombers, drones and of course dont forget Balochistan into the thread to derail it.
Its been quite amusing my Indian friends - keep googling ISI BAD BAD - and forget what goes on around you.
Have a great evening boys....

See first of all you being a think tank should be able to reason more correctly than just dismiss the Indians on this thread. Please read my post #335. I see you go after the trolls here and no wonder you are feeding on them or they on you.. think much? If you are only looking for a approval of your convictions the second page on this thread should have quench your thirst where one Indian member did accept that if true the situation is bad(Why do you have to convince each and every member on this forum?).. and much more amusing is that a 'mod' liked your post

Well well. There have been quite a few unjustified personal attacks on me on this thread. Some Indian members have had infractions and some have had posts deleted. I take your insults as medals lol

What is it that gets so many Indian members so hot under the collar about this thread?

The Indian army chief has made as a statement that Indian army has only two days ammunition. If this is true it would suggest that the Indian army is not the force that a lot of Indian members on the forum would like us to believe it is. So quite a number of Indian members have suggested that he is being diplomatic or slightly untruthful etc. To me its rather more simple if we accept what forum members are saying that India must have more than two days of ammunition then the Indian army chief is a liar.

If for a moment we accept that the Indian army chief is telling the truth then the Indian army is not the force that some Indian members would like us to believe.

I think Indian forum members do not wish to accept that their army chief is a liar nor do they wish to accept that their army is unprepared. But surely logic would dictate one of these statements is true. The result of this is

1. Some Indian members of the forum have tried to go off topic and brought up "the price of tea in china" and other off topic subjects.

2. Some Indian members of the forum have decided that they will attack me personally.

Neither 1 nor 2 brings any credit to you.

I would say that immaterial of whether it is true or not this statement by the Indian chief was at the very least foolish and shows that Indian officer corps are not fit for purpose if their chief is so untactful imagine this guy having a say in deployment of Indian nukes.

Now now as in case of superkaif above, you have been responding selectively to only those which are either trolling or you are trolling and flame baiting them.. however, you have not tried to discuss it any more than your black and white conclusions either this or that.. Just to tell you that we live in a muticolored world and there is also a color called grey(also read vibgyor), which you completely fail to see...

To both of you, if you had such simplistic conclusions of a news item on the Indian Army you should have stopped your rants about either this or that long back. If you want a decent debate, first de-bunk on the points I have raised, make them rational (unlike your black and white conclusions), and then we can have a good discussion.. otherwise as I said above keep responding to guys you claimed as trolls even when they brought in Chinese tea and you disappointingly responded to them.. Again your post too is liked by a mod... seriously!!

 

[Paan Singh]

dont be so defeatist my dear,

Americans are looking for someone reliable to take on the Chinese, they dont want someone to run out of steam at the time of need.

and you think india is football?

 

[Irfan Baloch]

and you think india is football?

no sir I dont


it was an analogy

 

[Paan Singh]

no sir I dont


it was an analogy

so plz close it...we wont get anything other than pink saadis for indians

 

[Shaurya]

what to say?? gandhi dynasty zindabaad

 

[Paan Singh]

what to say?? gandhi dynasty zindabaad

dont worry..gandhis will run for their life with in 8-10 years.
more the ppl will be educated,more will they come to know abt their kaarnama's

and with in 10 years,india will reduce their much poverty with educated population.

 

[Shaurya]

dont worry..gandhis will run for their life with in 8-10 years.
more the ppl will be educated,more will they come to know abt their kaarnama's

and with in 10 years,india will reduce their much poverty with educated population.

There's no time my friend, we don't have 10yrs. and then as Kabirji said...

Kal kare so aaj kar, aaj kare toh aab, pal mein par lay hoyegi , phir bahuri karega kab??

A nation that is still young, MUST be guided in the right way... gandi ideology unfortunately (or fortunately) has died, the mistakes of our ancestors are what we are suffering now, Nehru gave up gilgit baluchistan, he gave up lahore, he gave up tibet and was going to give up kashmir too guess who votes for these jokers and who these jokers work for??
Aman ki Asha my a$$ , now is the time to get back our land that was illegally stolen from us, who are britards to decide what India should be?? moreover, who is nehru to decide what India should be?? Was he even correct?? I really don't want to insult a dead man but to be true, he worked more for OUTSIDERS than he did for this country... Gandhiji himself is a face value who is extensively used today to gain political sympathy and votes... add to that the appeasement, kick these jokers out, throw out their rotten ideology and we will see who stops us from developing...

 

[Jon Snow]

This is very serious news -one which we cant ignore especially as it comes from the Army chief.
The first question to ask is what kind of ammunition ?? If it is small arms then that can be easily remedied - we manufacture our own small arms(INSAS ) and its ammo inhouse. There was news that there was a shortfall in ATGMs but we quickly bought some on an urgent basis -
India goes for 'urgent' purchase of anti-tank missiles - Times Of India
We also make our own tank ammo.
So it can only be artillery ammo as we have been facing problems in this field due to blacklisting by the goverment for example :-
One FIR, Govt blacklists 7 firms, hits artillery upgrade - Indian Express

Having already taken a knocking with the controversies involving Bofors and Denel, India’s artillery modernisation programme hit another roadblock when the Ministry of Defence, taking note of bribery allegations in a fresh case, blacklisted seven firms, including gun manufacturer Singapore Technologies (ST) and munitions giant Israeli Military Industries (IMI) until further notice.
With all dealings with the two firms put on hold, defence contracts worth over Rs 6,000 crore — all involving artillery guns and ammunition for the Army — are now in deep freeze.

Confirming a report in The Indian Express, the Ministry of Defence said “all acquisition cases in the pipeline” with seven firms have been “put on hold” after their names figured in a CBI probe into corruption charges against former Director General of Ordnance Factory Board Sudipta Ghosh.

Taking a tough stand on charges of bribery against these companies, Defence Minister A K Antony said that the ban “should act as a deterrence to all those who are involved in procurement of system platforms for defence sector.”

The Army’s artillery acquisition programme had already taken a beating following the Bofors scandal and the blacklisting of South African giant Denel on bribery charges in 2005.

With Denel still blacklisted, Singapore Technologies was the frontrunner in a Rs 5,000-crore tender to provide 155 mm light howitzers for Army use in mountainous terrain. ST was the only company in consideration for the contract after BAE Systems Bofors did not take part.

The Army quest for self-reliance in artillery ammunition has also been hit with the ban on Israeli firm IMI. The company had been awarded a Rs 1,200-crore contract in April to set up an ordnance factory in Nalanda to produce ammunition for the 155 mm Bofors guns. Officials said the contract has now been put on hold.

The factory is already five years behind schedule, stalled in 2005 following the Denel scandal. The South African firm had originally been selected to start the factory. Initial payments had already been made when it was blacklisted following corruption charges.

Incidentally, all three Indian firms blacklisted Thursday are also involved in the manufacture of ammunition components for the 155 mm artillery guns of the Army. The companies barred from business are:

• Israeli Military Industries, Israel: The small arms manufacturer recently bagged a Rs 1,200-crore deal to set up a ammunition factory in Nalanda. It manufactures well-known small arms including the Uzi submachine gun, the Tavor assault rifle and the Desert Eagle revolver. In 2002, India signed a Rs 90-crore deal to procure over 3,000 Tavor rifles for its special forces from IMI.

• Singapore Technologies: The Singapore-based firm manufacturers small arms and artillery systems, mainly for its parent country. The firm has a joint venture with OFB on small arms and the two have jointly developed a carbine, the SAR 21 MMS for sale to Indian defence and paramilitary forces. It was the frontrunner in a Rs 5,000-crore tender to provide 155 mm light howitzers for the Army.

• T S Kishan and Co Pvt Ltd: A Delhi-based firm, it manufactures explosive shells for the 155 mm Bofors guns in service with the Army. It has a tie-up with OFB for manufacturing sub-components of the artillery ammunition.

• R K Machine Tools: The Ludhiana-based company supplies critical components to the OFB including 120 mm shells and varieties of 155 mm ammunition and flares.

• Media Architects Pvt Ltd: The Singapore-based firm specialises in new media technologies and is the distributor of several software packages.

• HYT Engg: The Pune-based firm is also involved in manufacture of 155 mm components for the Army.

• BVT, Poland.

The Ministry of Defence spokesperson Sitanshu Kar said that though the CBI has not yet filed a chargesheet, evidence such as transfer of money to personal accounts of government employees involving the companies have been detected.

The Ministry said all acquisitions with these companies have been put on hold. “The matter will be further reviewed as and when the CBI provides more evidence. The Ministry of Defence desires to tackle issues of corruption in procurement cases head-on,” Kar said.
----------------
Also the DRDO cannot test the shells it produces as the orissa government did not give them permission
DRDO facing problems in testing artillery ammo - Hindustan Times

The Odisha government’s refusal to allow the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) to use the Balasore firing range has come as a blow for the testing of artillery ammunitions, a top DRDO official said here on Wednesday.
As reported by HT on tuesday, the Odisha government has refused permission to Proof & Experimental Establishment (PXE)—a key DRDO facility— to test various types of ammunitions at the Balasore range as the defence ministry is wary about granting nod to four private port projects in the state.
DRDO chief VK Saraswat said, “We are in talks with the Odisha government to resolve the issue and trying to figure out if technological solutions can help ports and shells co-exist.”
Saraswat said testing of artillery ammunitions was the main problem being faced by the DRDO. He said the range, set up in 1895, was an ideal location for testing artillery.

The defence ministry has raised objections to the proposed private ports since they will be set up close to the Wheeler Island missile-testing centre in Bhadrak district and the Chandipur Interim Test Range of Balasore district.

Odisha government officials said they were trying to convince the defence ministry that the state’s interest should also be looked into. The PXE requires the state government's authorisation every three years to use the Balasore range.

 

[Paan Singh]

There's no time my friend, we don't have 10yrs. and then as Kabirji said...

Kal kare so aaj kar, aaj kare toh aab, pal mein par lay hoyegi , phir bahuri karega kab??

A nation that is still young, MUST be guided in the right way... gandi ideology unfortunately (or fortunately) has died, the mistakes of our ancestors are what we are suffering now, Nehru gave up gilgit baluchistan, he gave up lahore, he gave up tibet and was going to give up kashmir too guess who votes for these jokers and who these jokers work for??
Aman ki Asha my a$$ , now is the time to get back our land that was illegally stolen from us, who are britards to decide what India should be?? moreover, who is nehru to decide what India should be?? Was he even correct?? I really don't want to insult a dead man but to be true, he worked more for OUTSIDERS than he did for this country... Gandhiji himself is a face value who is extensively used today to gain political sympathy and votes... add to that the appeasement, kick these jokers out, throw out their rotten ideology and we will see who stops us from developing...

yaara,what you think??how many youngs have internet or know about gandhis??
Their vote bank is poors and they give daaru or 100Rs note to poors to get vote and some time or may be many times rigged the polls.so i prefer education.We internet users knows each n every thing but think about the rest of those indians who doesnt knows about the spelling of internet??

so we will take time and may be we can do earlier if modi like leader come.

always remember,we are super power which is slowly rising with 800 million + under 30 population.

and dont care about pakistan...10 years back,they were saying that we wont give trade or mfn but now they have opened their market in free and will give mfn..and wait for other 10 years..they will accept our other conditions as well.

just wait n watch.

 

[Jon Snow]

Took me a long time to go through this thread - filled with trolls and counter trolls. The truth of the matter is india does produce all kinds of ammunition inhouse but some components of artillery ammo are sourced from some private firms which are all being blacklisted by the government ( these include indian companies ) - due to this there is a shortfall in artillery ammo only - not small arms or atgm or tank ammo as has been discussed.
here is a list of all the kinds of ammo which indian ordnance factories produce

Indian Ordnance Factories: Ammunition, Explosives, Propellants & Chemicals

Small Calibre

CARTRIDGE SA 5.56 mm BALL INSAS
CARTRIDGE SA 5.56 mm TRACER INSAS
CARTRIDGE 5.56 MM BALL Mk N NATO
CARTRIDGE 5.56 MM BALL Mk M NATO
CARTRIDGE SA 7.62 mm BALL M80
CARTRIDGE SA 7.62 mm TRACER M62
CARTRIDGE SA 7.62 mm Blank L.A.
CARTRIDGE SA 7.62 mm MARKSMAN
CARTRIDGE SA 7.62 mm A7 MK-II
CARTRIDGE SA 9 mm BALL
CARTRIDGE SA 9 mm TRACER .840 CAP
CARTRIDGE SA .303 BALL MK 7Z
CARTRIDGE SA .50 SPOTTER TRACER
CARTRIDGE SA .380 BALL REVOLVER
CARTRIDGE RIM FIRE .22 BALL
CARTG. SA .32 REVOLVER
CARTG. SA .455 REVOLVER
CARTG. SA .315 IN AND 30 06 BALL
CARTG. SA 12 BORE ANTIRIOT
CARTG. SA 12 BORE 65 mm PLSATIC SPECIAL
CARTG. SA 12 BORE 65 mm PAPER SPECIAL
CARTG. SA 12 BORE 65 mm PLASTIC DELUXE
CARTG. SA 12 BORE 70 mm PLASTIC ASTRAM
CARTG. SA 12 BORE 70 mm PLASTIC MAGNA
CARTG. SA 12.7 mm API and APIT

Mortar Bombs

BOMB M.L. 2" MORTAR HE
BOMB ML SMOKE 2" MORTAR
BOMB ML MORTAR 2" ILLG
BOMB ML 2" MORTAR SIGNAL SINGLE STAR
MORTAR BOMB 51 MM HE
MORTAR BOMB 51 MM SMOKE 1A
MORTAR BOMB 51 MM ILLG 1A
MORTAR BOMB 51 MM ILLG RED GREEN
BOMB 81 mm MORTAR HE
BOMB 81 MM MORTAR SMOKE PWP
BOMB 81 MM MORTAR ILLUMINATING 2A
BOMB MORTAR 120 MM HE
BOMB MORTAR 120 MM SMOKE PWP
BOMB MORTAR 120 MM ILLG IA
81 MM MORTAR TRAINING DEVICE
120 MM MORTAR TRAINING DEVICE

Medium Calibre

CARTRIDGE 14.5 mm TRAINING AMMUNITION
CARTRIDGE 14.5 MM API
CARTRIDGE 14.5 MM APIT
CARTRIDGE 23 MM SCHILKA HE/IT
CARTRIDGE 23 MM SCHILKA AP/IT
CARTRIDGE 23 mm GHASHA HEI
CARTRIDGE 23 MM GHASHA AP I
30 MM BMP II AMMUNITION HE/T
30 MM BMP II AMMUNITION AP/T
30 MM BMP II AMMUNITION HE/I
CARTRIDGE. 30 MM NAVAL AMMN
CARTRIDGE 30 MM ADEN GUN PRACTICE MK2Z
CARTRIDGE 30 MM ADEN GUN HE MK 2Z
CARTRIDGE 30 MM GHASHA HE / INERT
CARTRIDGE QF 40 MM L-70 HE
CARTRIDGE QF 40 mm L/70 TPT
CARTRIDGE AA 40 mm L-70 PFFC

Large Calibre

84 mm TPT 65
84 mm HE 441B
84 mm HEAT 651
84 mm ILLUMINATING 545
CARTG. 105 mm IFG NORMAL CHARGE
CARTG. 105 mm IFG SUPER CHARGE
SHELL 105 mm IFG HE
SHELL 105 mm IFG HESH
SHELL 105 mm IFG ILLG
SHELL 105 mm IFG BE SMOKE
CARTG. QF 76.2 mm PRACTICE AND HE
CARTRIDGE 76.2 mm PFHE
CARTRIDGE 76/62 MM PRACTICE AA FLASH
CARTRIDGE QF 105 mm SH PRACTICE
CARTRIDGE 105 mm FSAPDS/T
CARTRIDGE 105 mm TANK HESH
CARTRIDGE QF 105 MM APDS/T
CARTRIDGE QF 105 MM DS/T PRACTICE
ROUND 106 mm RCL HEAT
SHELL 73 mm HE
SHELL 73mm HEAT
MAIN BATTLE TANK AMMUNITION 120 mm HESH
MAIN BATTLE TANK AMMUNITION 120 MM FSAPDS
SHELL 125 mm HE
SHELL 125 mm HEAT
CARTG. 125 mm FSAPDS
SHELL 130 mm HE
CARTRIDGE FVC RVC FOR 130 mm HE
155 mm SHELL HE 107
155 mm SHELL HE M 77B
155 mm SHELL HEER
155 mm SHELL SMOKE ER 24KM
SHELL 155 mm ILLUMINATING MIRA
SHELL 155 mm HE
SHELL 155 MM ILLUMINATING ERFB
SHELL 155 MM SCREENING SMOKE BE M2A2
155 mm HE ERFB BB
155 mm HE ERFB BT
CARTG. 125 MM FSAPDS T MK1
155 mm HE-ER BASE BLEED PROJECTILE

Grenades, Signalling Smoke, Other Stores

CARTG SIGNAL 16mm RED GREEN WHITE
CARTRIDGE SIGNAL 1" RED GREEN ILLG.
CARTG SIGNAL 1.5 GREEN RED YELLOW
GRENADE 36 M HAND AND TUBE LAUNCHING
81 MM SMOKE GRENADE 3D6 FOR T72
CANDLE SMOKE GROUND MK 3 L
TRAINING SMOKE GENERATOR
GENERATOR SMOKE NO.5
GRENADE HANDSMOKE RED GREEN
MARKER SMOKE WHITE
GENERATOR SMOKE ORANGE 3A
CSES GRENADE RED GREEN YELLOW
FLARE GROUND INDICATING NO. MK-1 YELLOW
PORT FIRE FRICTION
SIGNAL DISTRESS DAY AND NIGHT
CARTRIDGE SEAT EJECTION PK 3M 1
CARTRIDGE R-4 PYRO CUTTER
FLARE TRIP WIRE MK-1
SIGNAL FUZEE
SIGNAL FOG
HAND FLARE RED MK- II
PARA FLARE RED
BUOYANT SMOKE ORANGE
THUNDER FLASH MK - 4
MULTI MODE HAND GRENADE

Rocket Bombs

ROCKET 68 mm HE
ROCKET 68 mm HC
ROCKET 68 mm PRACTICE
BOMB HE 1000 lbs
BOMB PRACTICE 25 lbs No. 1 MK-1
BOMB 3 KG PRACTICE
BOMB 250 KG HSLD BOMB
BOMB 450 KG HSLD BOMB
AERIAL BOMB 100 -120 KG
AERIAL BOMB 100 -120 KG INERT

Fuzes

FUZE FZ 104
Fuze 213 MK5 (M-1) & (M-2) ad (M-3) & (M-4)
FUZE L 29 A2/A3
FUZE PERCUSSION DA NO.117
FUZE FOR ROCKET 122 mm HE
PROXIMITY FUZE 76.2
FUZE DA- 5A
FUZE 162 MK-8 AND FUZE 162 MK - 9
FUZE 161 MK 3 M-1
FUZE PD M 572 FOR 155 mm

Demolition

CHARGE DEMOLITION No. 2, 25 Ibs
CHARGE DEMOLITION No.11, 30 lbs
CHARGE DEMOLITION No. 14, 11 Ibs
CHARGE DEMOLITION NO.1 BEEHIVE
MINE ANTI-TANK 4D ND (BAR)
SWITCH NO. 4 PULL MK.1
SWITCH NO. 5 PRESSURE MK 1
SWITCH NO. 6 RELEASE MK 1
MAINDEKA ADVANCED LIMPET MINE

Explosives, Propellants and Chemicals

CHEMICALS
EXPLOSIVES
PROPELLANTS
LIQUID PROPELLANTS

 

[Shaurya]

There's no time my friend, we don't have 10yrs. and then as Kabirji said...

Kal kare so aaj kar, aaj kare toh aab, pal mein par lay hoyegi , phir bahuri karega kab??

A nation that is still young, MUST be guided in the right way... gandi ideology unfortunately (or fortunately) has died, the mistakes of our ancestors are what we are suffering now, Nehru gave up gilgit baluchistan, he gave up lahore, he gave up tibet and was going to give up kashmir too guess who votes for these jokers and who these jokers work for??
Aman ki Asha my a$$ , now is the time to get back our land that was illegally stolen from us, who are britards to decide what India should be?? moreover, who is nehru to decide what India should be?? Was he even correct?? I really don't want to insult a dead man but to be true, he worked more for OUTSIDERS than he did for this country... Gandhiji himself is a face value who is extensively used today to gain political sympathy and votes... add to that the appeasement, kick these jokers out, throw out their rotten ideology and we will see who stops us from developing...

Who controls the education system?? what will young Indians learn when they are tough BS by these jungis??

 

[Paan Singh]

Who controls the education system?? what will young Indians learn when they are tough BS by these jungis??

we will tell and how we learned?