Indian Army requests more Apaches

[Abingdonboy]

The Indian Army has asked the Ministry of Defence (MoD) in India to acquire a further 11 Boeing AH-64E Apache attack helicopters for its aviation corps, supplementing the 22 Apaches the MoD has agreed to buy for the Indian Air Force (IAF).

The Army Aviation Corps (AAC) has stated an overall requirement for 33 Apaches, and declared in a recent letter to the MoD that there would be no procedural problems in the ministry exercising the option to acquire 11 AH-64Es via the Foreign Military Sales route at the same cost as the original 22.

The IAF selected the AH-64 over Russia's Mil Mi-28N 'Havoc' for India's heavy attack helicopter requirement in August 2012.

Indian Army requests more Apaches - IHS Jane's 360

Now this is interesting!!



@sancho @Capt.Popeye @Water Car Engineer @Koovie

 

[acid rain]

Indian Army requests more Apaches - IHS Jane's 360

Now this is interesting!!


So at the very least India will have 55 Apaches (22 for the IAF, 33 for the IA AAC)- not included the follow-on orders that are likely to be placed.

??????

u got that wrong, 22 for IAF, 11 for IA..read the article again plss.

I hope they get deplyed near the LOC - A lot of hunting to be done there.

 

[Abingdonboy]

??????

u got that wrong, 22 for IAF, 11 for IA..read the article again plss.

I hope they get deplyed near the LOC - A lot of hunting to be done there.

Yes but the IA has stated themselves that they have a requirement of 33 Ah-64Es for- themselves.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

I wrote about this a few months ago that army was pissed and wanted its own fleet of 11 apaches in this forum.

 

[Abingdonboy]

I wrote about this a few months ago that army was pissed and wanted its own fleet of 11 apaches in this forum.

Sorry, I missed that bro!

 

[SRP]

@Abingdonboy I think they asked mod to exercise the option of 11 more helos. That means 22(IAF)+11(for army) = 33.

 

[Abingdonboy]

@Abingdonboy I think they asked mod to exercise the option of 11 more helos. That means 22(IAF)+11(for army) = 33.

I don't know about that, the article says something very different:

The Army Aviation Corps (AAC) has stated an overall requirement for 33 Apaches,

They wouldn't be commenting on the IAF's projected requirements- that just isn't how these things work.




And AFAIK the option was for 22 follow-on units, not 11.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Indian Army requests more Apaches - IHS Jane's 360

Now this is interesting!!

So at the very least India will have 55 Apaches (22 for the IAF, 33 for the IA AAC)- not included the follow-on orders that are likely to be placed.
@sancho @Capt.Popeye @Water Car Engineer @Koovie

I think you've got the Math mixed up a bit
The report says 22 in the first order + 11 in a follow-up excercise of option. That adds upto 33 in all.

Now since the CAPEX and OPEX for Attack Helicopters comes out of IA's Capital Budget; they are the ones to spell out their reqmts.

Of course the IA will have to work very hard to set up their own Operating Systems and Technical Facilities i.e. EME Wksps if they are hoping to get Operation Control of these rotorcraft which they will eventually. But how quickly they achieve that will depend on their preparedness to do so. But there is likely to be some more skirmishing along the way.

 

[acid rain]

Yes but the IA has stated themselves that they have a requirement of 33 Ah-64Es for- themselves.

Yes sir they had, but the initial 22 went in favor of the IAF, so net it will be only 22 and if approved another 11 thru' FMS for the army exclusively.

 

[Abingdonboy]

I think you've got the Math mixed up a bit
The report says 22 in the first order + 11 in a follow-up excercise of option. That adds upto 33 in all.

Now since the CAPEX and OPEX for Attack Helicopters comes out of IA's Capital Budget; they are the ones to spell out their reqmts.

Of course the IA will have to work very hard to set up their own Operating Systems and Technical Facilities i.e. EME Wksps if they are hoping to get Operation Control of these rotorcraft which they will eventually. But how quickly they achieve that will depend on their preparedness to do so. But there is likely to be some more skirmishing along the way.

Bro, I am working under the assumption that the the IA AAC's projected figure of 33 units is on top of/separate to the IAF's 22 unit order. I could be wrong.

Yes sir they had, but the initial 22 went in favor of the IAF, so net it will be only 22 and if approved another 11 thru' FMS for the army exclusively.

You could be right sir- I may have gotten the wrong end of the stick!


It has turned into a pretty silly future scenario- the IAF and IA both operating the same attack helo! And who will get the follow-on orders over and above this 33? The AAC is the one that needs these assets en masse.

 

[Abingdonboy]

@Capt.Popeye the CAPEX for the IAF's 22 AH-64Es would come out of the IAF's pocket- not the IA's surely.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Bro, I am working under the assumption that the the IA AAC's projected figure of 33 units is on top of/separate to the IAF's 22 unit order. I could be wrong.



You could be right sir- I may have gotten the wrong end of the stick!


It has turned into a pretty silly future scenario- the IAF and IA both operating the same attack helo! And who will get the follow-on orders over and above this 33? The AAC is the one that needs these assets en masse.

Your math is in error, sir.
The IA will be paying for both buying and operating these Helos (just as they did with the Hinds). So they have added onto their requirement figures. Which is 22+11=33.

Now about Operational Control; that is what the 'bone of contention' is. Earlier they were entirely controlled by the IAF. Then they were partly controlled by the IA Corps to which they are assigned, with a few AAC pilots even involved in flying. But Operational Doctrines were created and executed by the IAF. That is where the 'skirmishing' is really taking place. Once the IA sets itself up completely, they will be able to demand full control. Till then there will be transitionary phase. One positive has been the use of Helos in all the recent Joint Exercises carried out by IA-IAF in recent years.

 

[JohnyD]

Indian Army is requesting Apaches like Apples....Both Army and Air Force have always let down the indigenous efforts and promoted the import! Now with US wanting to share its tech, these guys have got more options and reasons to import more than source it from locall..and they wlll always have the reason to back their decision and ie. imported is high tech and superiror..!! BS.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Yes but the IA has stated themselves that they have a requirement of 33 Ah-64Es for- themselves.

The IA said that the "overall" requirement was of 33 Apaches.This is including what the IAF will have which is based on the calculation what each corp will have.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Your math is in error, sir.
The IA will be paying for both buying and operating these Helos (just as they did with the Hinds). So they have added onto their requirement figures. Which is 22+11=33.

Now about Operational Control; that is what the 'bone of contention' is. Earlier they were entirely controlled by the IAF. Then they were partly controlled by the IA Corps to which they are assigned, with a few AAC pilots even involved in flying. But Operational Doctrines were created and executed by the IAF. That is where the 'skirmishing' is really taking place. Once the IA sets itself up completely, they will be able to demand full control. Till then there will be transitionary phase. One positive has been the use of Helos in all the recent Joint Exercises carried out by IA-IAF in recent years.

The IA wants to expand the AAC in the future and obviously the Air Wing of the IA will be part of any big operation India is going to undertake in the future with each corp having now almost 3 attack helicopters to choose from.Attack helicopters would be a part of IBG(if that is the plan).Hence it is important that Army and AF jointly address the issue which is only gonna get more bigger in the future with the Army only getting ambitious to even plan of having fixed wing transporters.