Indian Army:Pakistan welcome to withdraw from Siachen,but we won't withdraw

[get straight]

pakistanis have big heart doesnt mean we offer fruit cake to indians for free

 

[Nassr]

Go cry a river !!! Both countries were trying to occupie siachin first.. Pakistan failed & India succeeded... IA does not trust pakistan so does not want to vaccate the higher ground. IA has no issues in holding ground- it is PA who wants to now go back to previous status... not going to happen...

I don't know who is correct. An Indian Army Commander or a person who calls himself Bond and is from some place in Bombay. You tell me.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Really? Suppose India accepts Pakistani assurances and withdraws from a position. If Pakistani troops then advance to take the position Pakistani leaders will be lauded by Pakistanis for a successful deception, is that not so? However, if Indian forces tried the same trick after Pakistani forces withdrew from a position, they would be strongly condemned by Indians for violating the country's honor, yes?

At least, that's how I see it. That's how low my expectations of Pakistan have fallen...

You are certainly entitled to your views, I respect that. However, the hypothetical situtions that you have outlined are not so simple and straightforward as that.

Firstly, the ground position is such that Indian Army rules the Siachen Glacier and physically occupies the Saltoro Ridgeline, while the PA occupies the Baltoro Glacier and Ridges. So far as the Saltoro Range is concerned, the PA is in physical possession of the ground below the ridge-line and the mouths (or tails) of the Siachen Glacier branches, all of which is lower ground. Check out the locations of Goma, Giyari etc. on the maps for clarification.
So if the PA unilaterally decides to withdraw from that area, where will it withdraw from? Certainly its not likely to be the Baltoro region. Below the Saltoro ridge-line (where the PA is most vulnerable) if the PA pulls back (even) unilaterally, the IA will certainly not descend down from the ridgeline to occupy the vacated areas. That will be plainly foolish. So no chance of that happening either. Simply speaking, status quo can be maintained; while both sides resolve (within themselves) the "cost of ownership and presence" issues that have been/are/will be the uppermost issues in Siachen.

Secondly, there has generally quite a bit of confusion about the importance of Siachen itself. Lt.Gen. Parnaik hints towards that in the OP when he speaks about Siachen and its relationship to Kargil. So the IA has reached some clarity about how it views Siachen. That has been taken care of.

Lastly, this talk of mutual withdrawal from Siachen might reach some fruition; when a strong and stable political Govt. is installed in Pakistan after clear negotiations with GoI. When is that likely to happen?

 

[Nassr]

Cherry picking much.. Read a few lines before the ones you quoted where he mentions that as per LOC agreement going northwards (exact wordings from the agreement) from 9847 puts saltoro in Indian region. So his contention is that they expected Pakistan to come and occupied an unguarded Indian region and hence we preempted the move and sent our troops their first..



talk about standards of Army commanders when half the time, the ones in Pakistan commit a daylight robbery regularly at the national level.. (Military coups)



The general just trolled Kayani big time

The agreement says going northwards. The northwards extends from North West West to North West to North to North East to North East East. Please improve your knowledge base.

The Army Commander also said, "Now northwards, if you literally and practically take northwards, it is along the Saltoro Range. The Pakistan's contention is that actually northwards means that it runs through the Karakoram Pass." He said, if you literally and practically take northwards, it also means that there are other norths as well which he says is Pakistan's stand. If your north points towards only one direction, I can understand your physical state .

The intellectual difference between General Kiyani and this Army commander is visible to be so large that, he can only troll against him. I agree with you.

 

[karan.1970]

The agreement says going northwards. The northwards extends from North West West to North West to North to North East to North East East. Please improve your knowledge base.

The Army Commander also said, "Now northwards, if you literally and practically take northwards, it is along the Saltoro Range. The Pakistan's contention is that actually northwards means that it runs through the Karakoram Pass." He said, if you literally and practically take northwards, it also means that there are other norths as well which he says is Pakistan's stand. If your north points towards only one direction, I can understand your physical state .

Well, I guess for most people on this earth, North points towards only one direction.. But surely I can understand, in Pakistan anything is possible and there may be 3-4 different directions that North may point towards

 

[Nassr]

Well, I guess for most people on this earth, North points towards only one direction.. But surely I can understand, in Pakistan anything is possible and there may be 3-4 different directions that North may point towards

ha ha ha ....... That is why when there are agreements between two nations, it is experts who deal with these and not majority of the people who think north only points towards one direction.

ha ha ha

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Well, I guess for most people on this earth, North points towards only one direction.. But surely I can understand, in Pakistan anything is possible and there may be 3-4 different directions that North may point towards

While I can sympathise with Nassr's compulsions; as a professional I'd certainly get confused as hell. The Compass Rose shows only one North- True North.

Now if other Norths (like imposters and frauds) try to elbow themselves onto the Compass Rose, imagine the mayhem. Columbus might have reached Antarctica to cavort with the Penguins.

Just what our Navigation Instructor would say to us (during our Cadet days): "By what gymnastics of mathematics and navigation, have you arrived at this position", when our Astro-Nav calculations put us in some other Ocean.
Ah, those were the days!

 

[Bhairava]

you have been a good friend of the Pakistanis for a long time,
but for your above post, let me put it straigt. I as an INDIAN would definetly file a case against INDIA if INDIAN ARMY tries to take the hights that PA with draws. and there are a billion people in INDIA just like me, who take Honor first and Life as next. that is why we have been branded as one of the best, hones and loyal work force around the world

Dafuq did I just read ?

 

[Abingdonboy]

This is the first time that such a senior Indian Army officer has accepted without any compunction that they were the aggressors and that they illegally occupied Siachen, "if in the excuse of expeditions they come and occupy that area, it would cause a lot of threat to us. So we occupied it in '84." They occupied an area because they perceived a threat. It clearly means that the area was not occupied and the Indian Army conducted an act of aggression. It also means that India is certainly not a status-quo power as they famously proclaim.

And they expect that Pakistan should should sign on the maps, accepting and rewarding Indian aggression. Pakistan should never sign on any such documents as this would tantamount to accepting Indian aggression. His statement as I mentioned above is the first Indian confession of a blatant aggression and must be archived for future references.

It was indeed very difficult to understand what the Army Commander was blabbering - if this is the standard of their army commanders, the rest can be well understood.

From what is known this has never really been disputed- India launched a pre-emptive operation as the Indian side had got information that Pakistan was preperaing to launch such ops themselves. The story goes it was a winter supplies company in UK that sold to both IA and PA that told Indians the Pakistani side had been buying supplies for a big op.

 

[Splurgenxs]

Imagine this is a chess game between India and Pakistan,and India Bishop and rook have take a position such tht the queen can't move into the tile to take out the King guarded by only two entries in a strong pawn line,

but unfortunately for the Pakistan there losing pawns and Knights one after the other.

SO whats pakistan next move? well it asks us to withdraw our Bishop!lol...yeah right.

 

[ashokdeiva]

Dont agree.. If India pulls a Kargil (successful one and not like the Kargil Pakistan did ), most of the population will appalaud the Indian Military and not protest. Prior to 1999, yes you would have been right.. But no longer.. 1999 made Pakistani establishment an enemy of the Indian citizens which earlier used to be only the enemey of the state. 26/11 was the last nail in the coffin after that..

cold revenge will bring us and our nation the same name Pakistan has acumulated over the years.
Do you want to have your nations name tarnished or be remembered as the nation that stands by what it says and lives to the honor our forefathers have preserved for cneturies

Dafuq did I just read ?

yep you read it right.
I will be one among those who would be protesting in the streets for initiating a war that is not called for.
I and a lot of INDIANS willbe reeady to settle for making the presnt LOC as the IB, but we do not want another grain of sand that the Pakistanis are holding. Let them have their piece of Kashmir and lets have ours ans start thinking about peace to us and our soldiers

 

[KRAIT]

Imagine this is a chess game between India and Pakistan,and India Bishop and rook have take a position such tht the queen can't move into the tile to take out the King guarded by only two entries in a strong pawn line,

but unfortunately for the Pakistan there losing pawns and Knights one after the other.

SO whats pakistan next move? well it asks us to withdraw our Bishop!lol...yeah right.

What an explanation Sirjee, Awesome.....I do wish we don't move our bishop and get into position of stalemate where we can give a checkmate.

 

[Ticker]

While I can sympathise with Nassr's compulsions; as a professional I'd certainly get confused as hell. The Compass Rose shows only one North- True North.

Now if other Norths (like imposters and frauds) try to elbow themselves onto the Compass Rose, imagine the mayhem. Columbus might have reached Antarctica to cavort with the Penguins.

Just what our Navigation Instructor would say to us (during our Cadet days): "By what gymnastics of mathematics and navigation, have you arrived at this position", when our Astro-Nav calculations put us in some other Ocean.
Ah, those were the days!

If I as a plain civilian can know that there is not one but two types of north i.e. True North and Magnetic North, your professionalism as a cadet and after that is certainly questionable.

From what is known this has never really been disputed- India launched a pre-emptive operation as the Indian side had got information that Pakistan was preperaing to launch such ops themselves. The story goes it was a winter supplies company in UK that sold to both IA and PA that told Indians the Pakistani side had been buying supplies for a big op.

An Indian Army general, who is Commanding Northern Command says something different and tells the truth. Why don't you believe a serving Indian Army General. I fail to understand this simple fact.

 

[yyetttt]

I think Pakistan is in a tough spot trying to occupy Siachen... Pakistan simply can't do it without getting annihilated by either the conditions or by the Indian Army... So PA asking for you guys to withdraw, because our position is not good.

 

[Haseebullah]

Really? Suppose India accepts Pakistani assurances and withdraws from a position. If Pakistani troops then advance to take the position Pakistani leaders will be lauded by Pakistanis for a successful deception, is that not so? However, if Indian forces tried the same trick after Pakistani forces withdrew from a position, they would be strongly condemned by Indians for violating the country's honor, yes?

At least, that's how I see it. That's how low my expectations of Pakistan have fallen...

you people have been wrong about so many things before,a bucket in the ocean won't make a difference.