Indian Army is mobilizing tanks and troops along the internationl boundary with Pakistan-OSINT

[randomradio]

You’re confusing ISPR with Modi and Modi’s India and the Indian media dear sir.

The evidence and facts are right there, no casualties in Balakot and no evidence of an F-16 downed and yet the Indian government, military and media continue to spout bald faced lies non-stop despite the incontrovertible evidence refuting their claims.

If it wasn’t clear before, it’s obvious now, after the recent series of events, who’s lying and which nation is being brainwashed and led for a ride by their Hindutva extremist leadership.

Have you considered that it's ISPR that's lying?

Do you know that India's story hasn't changed, but Pakistan's has been changing?

 

[Vapnope]

Do you know that India's story hasn't changed, but Pakistan's has been changing?

https://dbpost.com/all-our-pilots-a...hes-pakistans-claim-of-shooting-down-iaf-jet/

300 killed
https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...00-militants-sources/articleshow/68165466.cms
No causalities
https://tribune.com.pk/story/1922397/1-no-casualties-balakot-strike-concedes-india/

You were saying India's story has not changed...

 

[SQ8]

Sir.

They are now trying to straighten out their stories. Few updates after my taking my own sweet time to check around:

1. Live feed from the IAF mission on 26 Feb 2019 was telecast to the PM and the powers that be in IAF (and shared with friendly nations who wanted a feedback). No question of miss. An on ground asset was also kind enough to give a post strike feedback. A report of a P-3C Orion based ELINT (probably EP-3E variant) platform was also reported to have been in air on our side, observing the strike. Post strike, that bit of information is no more available for confirmation from the same person who let it out in the first place, just as the Tigers & Battleaxes were landing back. I believe there is some article indicating real time monitoring by Israel and US too. I would take that to be what it is.

2. A-50 Phalcon ex 50 Sqn IAF has data that proves downing of 02 aircrafts on their side of LC, 01 x Mig-21 (ours) and 01 x F-16 (not ours ). This has been confirmed to me. I remain convinced of the same. Now this, my first post here regarding my being convinced about it, was met with a resolute 'no F-16 was used'. So .. no surprises.

Rest, it is wait and watch. Words spoken by DG ISPR and with him, the claims of 01 x Israeli, and the more ridiculous one of 01 x IAF pilot dead and India refused to accept the body, or 01 x Su-30 MKI downed, or twisting it to Mig-27 ..... they all will come back to re-enact the tale of Pakistan & its stories after Kargil.

I think your story is the one that needs straightening out. Perhaps if a visa could be arranged for you to travel to that location and see the “hit” it may change your mind.

As for F-16, I remain more convinced that none were lost as if my own classmates were flying them. In a few months Aviation journos may be invited to check the aircraft, with serial and if they wish check with Lockheed Martin for accuracy. Can your side do the same?

F-16s were used, we know your side are whiners to the manufacturing country since you managed to stop the AH-1Zs and hence the precautions for plausible deniability.

The rest is just fog of war.

 

[randomradio]

https://dbpost.com/all-our-pilots-a...hes-pakistans-claim-of-shooting-down-iaf-jet/

300 killed
https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...00-militants-sources/articleshow/68165466.cms
No causalities
https://tribune.com.pk/story/1922397/1-no-casualties-balakot-strike-concedes-india/

You were saying India's story has not changed...

You should be relying on official sources, not the media. Official sources in India haven't changed their story at all.

 

[Aryan0395]

300 killed

300 killed was never claimed by the govt/MOD or the military spokesperson.
It was pushed by the media.
It was later NTRO that came out on record to say that at the time of strikes they were tracking 300 active mobile phone signals from the target location, but ofc that doesnt mean all of them died. Either ways, 300 figure was never present in any official communication of the Indian Govt.

Also, Pak has moved from 'no F-16 were used' to 'all planes were in the air' to 'F16 may have been used'.
What is this 'may have been'?

 

[Arsalan 345]

i believe that india has captured some of our posts near akhnoor dagger.this type of operation from indian side was expected and today they denied capturing any pakistani posts because they don't want attention from all over the world.first i thought that this is a rumor but now i believe that that's true.most of pakistani people have no idea what's going on at loc.i have seen the same reports on different forums.i am not ready to accept only our news.we have to read both sides.some of their sources are credible and they have moved 1st and 2nd corps closer to border.that's true as well.

 

[randomradio]

What i hear, I confirm with MI.

I was referring to a "what if" scenario.

What's your take on the situation if things have played out exactly as what India has said?

In India's case, if things have played out based on what ISPR has said, it doesn't really change anything for India in terms of the kind of pressure being applied on Pakistan regardless of the outcome of the Balakot strike or the skirmish. At worst, Modi will lose some political points for having 'lost' a Su-30.

So what if Pakistan has indeed 'lost' well over 250 JeM trainees, an F-16, both the pilots, caught using F-16s in an offensive mission etc? What do you think will be the fallout in Pakistan?

 

[Vortex]

Also, Pak has moved from 'no F-16 were used' to 'all planes were in the air' to 'F16 may have been used'.
What is this 'may have been'?

NO F16 used for striking India
YES F16 used to defend our country

No + Yes = May have been.

It’s not changing statement, but adding precisions.

- Uncle Sam ! Uncle Sam deykh Pakistan nay mujkho 16 sath marha hai.

- Betha tujhay bas 16 tak geenty aty hay ? 16 say aghay naheen ati tujay?

- nein Uncle Sam mujkho 2000 tak geenty aty hai : 21, 29, 30, 2000.

- pheer beta Sola ko chordoh aur aghay jaho!

 

[xyxmt]

Tanks are mobilized for starting an offensive inside enemy territory. That is the message which is being sent through this news report.

when was the last time they did the tank offensive and how many times they brought it closer to the borders

 

[Signalian]

when was the last time they did the tank offensive and how many times they brought it closer to the borders

2017 is latest till 2019.
https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/nation/army-changes-tack-puts-tanks-at-akhnoor/472976.html
In 2002, IA moved armor. Not sure about 2008. There was another build up during excercise Brass Tracks in 1987. Pakistan responded with Excercise Zarb e Momin in 1989.

Last Indian armor offensive could be in 1971 war.

 

[xyxmt]

2017 is latest till 2019.
https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/nation/army-changes-tack-puts-tanks-at-akhnoor/472976.html
In 2002, IA moved armor. Not sure about 2008. There was another build up during excercise Brass Tracks in 1987. Pakistan responded with Excercise Zarb e Momin in 1989.

Last Indian armor offensive could be in 1971 war.

there was no Indian armor offensive in 71 on west Pakistan border, Pakistan did the offensive to divert attention from East and captured some of their land too which was later used to negotiate the release of prisoners. Indians never, after what we did to them in 65, dare to cross the border on their west, and now they will never dare to violate our air space for next 50 years.

 

[Signalian]

An Infantry Division's authorized strength to neutralize enemy tanks comprises of 24 ATGM 4x4's and mines/obstacles laid out by the Engineer Battalion. The Armor Regiment of 45 MBT's could be used for this purpose also. The Infantry battalions have RPG's, not much of a punch really. 24 ATGM's are considered enough to counter enemy's Armored Regiment of 50-57 MBT's. However, in combat, during combat or an operation, an infantry Division could get reinforced with additional armor and anti tank weapons from reserve or sister formations. At all times (Peace and war), a strict eye is kept on movement of enemy formations to avoid nasty surprise of an armored force showing up in flanks or Gaps or undefended areas. Due to build up of IA RAPID's, the focus on ATGM induction has increased in PA and not just land based but Anti Tank Gunships and arming of trainers like K-8 and MFI-17 with weaponry.

 

[notorious_eagle]

1. Live feed from the IAF mission on 26 Feb 2019 was telecast to the PM and the powers that be in IAF (and shared with friendly nations who wanted a feedback). No question of miss. An on ground asset was also kind enough to give a post strike feedback. A report of a P-3C Orion based ELINT (probably EP-3E variant) platform was also reported to have been in air on our side, observing the strike. Post strike, that bit of information is no more available for confirmation from the same person who let it out in the first place, just as the Tigers & Battleaxes were landing back. I believe there is some article indicating real time monitoring by Israel and US too. I would take that to be what it is.

Indeed, and also Reuters published pictures from the satellite as to what was hit.

https://www.reuters.com/video/2019/03/07/an-image-casts-doubt-on-india-airstrike?videoId=522458185

I do agree that the IAF hit an open ground to showcase its might for the populace back home, and give Pakistan a face saving by not targeting any installation. Dead bodies on Pakistani news would have been extremely embarrassing for Pakistan, and would have forced Pakistan to retaliate which they did anyways.

2. A-50 Phalcon ex 50 Sqn IAF has data that proves downing of 02 aircrafts on their side of LC, 01 x Mig-21 (ours) and 01 x F-16 (not ours ). This has been confirmed to me. I remain convinced of the same. Now this, my first post here regarding my being convinced about it, was met with a resolute 'no F-16 was used'. So .. no surprises.

What if i tell you that PAF will line all the F16's for the international media to audit, just like PAF lined up all F104's and Mirage III's. On top of that, all of American hardware is audited by American officials so of an F16 will be hard to hide.

Rest, it is wait and watch. Words spoken by DG ISPR and with him, the claims of 01 x Israeli, and the more ridiculous one of 01 x IAF pilot dead and India refused to accept the body, or 01 x Su-30 MKI downed, or twisting it to Mig-27 ..... they all will come back to re-enact the tale of Pakistan & its stories after Kargil.

I do agree with you, ISPR should have shown evidence of the downed SU30MKI. But then again, shouldn't India release the HUD footage of the downed F16. So far the only evidence we have seen is a picture of an AMRAAM.

 

[Signalian]

there was no Indian armor offensive in 71 on west Pakistan border, Pakistan did the offensive to divert attention from East and captured some of their land too which was later used to negotiate the release of prisoners. Indians never, after what we did to them in 65, dare to cross the border on their west, and now they will never dare to violate our air space for next 50 years.

I think 1971 wouldn't be a good example to evaluate IA in any case. A lot has changed like doctrines and weaponry. Both armies have evolved dramatically.

 

[notorious_eagle]

Dear Sir, As I already mentioned, this is the wrong cross-section. Perhaps if I put it differently: count the number of Pakistani youngsters buried in unmarked graves in the Vale of Kashmir. Each grave represents a provocation.

Sir, this is what for India and Indians in general to introspect. Indian brutality against Kashmiris would have resulted in blowback anyways. This is something we Pakistanis have learned too, and started mainstreaming our marginalized communities. The kid that blew himself was a local Kashmiri, and had been humiliated and roughed up by the Indian Police. There are multiple videos of Kashmiri students in different Indian cities being rounded up and beaten up. When you marginalize a community, there is bound to be a backlash. The kids who are fighting in Kashmir are local Kashmiris, not Pakistanis.

It is for you as an Indian to introspect, how best can you bring the marginalized Kashmiri youth into the mainstream Indian society. Solve that, and watch how Kashmir is pacified.

That is yet to be seen, Sir. We have not seen an independent-minded Prime Minister able to impose his will on the Army to date. Whether this gentleman is in the driving seat or not will be apparent soon enough. Let us wait and see.

We are already seeing it Sir, and its the PM who is driving the foreign policy. Those of us who are Pakistanis and have a finger on the pulse of the Nation know very well what kind of PM Imran Khan is. You did have a point when Nawaz Sharif was the PM.

Sir, the whole point of my note was to underline the fact that the anger against Pakistan, fanned assiduously by a slavish Indian media, is now no longer a piece of playacting by media and politicians. Your institutions have been playing with fire, as they have done so often in the past, and once again, as has happened in the past, they are caught unprepared by the angry albeit excessively spontaneous response.

Based on my background and what i see, i can tell you right now there is a genuine interest among the institutions and policy makers to achieve peace with India. The consensus among the institutions is that India cannot be defeated in a war, it is far too big and mighty so better accept peace on equal terms. This is why the attention has turned into fixing the economy, and achieve peace within the country. The latter has been achieved and the former is being worked on.

I completely agree; no difference of opinion on that. But the fire caught because of the bloody incident at Pulwama.

Exactly, and it is time for you as an Indian to introspect why did that local Kashmiri kid blow himself up.