Indian and Chinese Hypersonic Missiles

[Brotherhood]

DF-21 may be old... but i am not denying it..

My only point is Agni II is much more advanced and better then DF-21 and it is for those who always criticize Indian missiles.

Dream on, cos its free, but reality always there to haunt you when you are awake;

In strategic nuclear defence and delivery systems, China’s PLA is miles ahead of India’s nuclear forces. The PLA’s stockpile is estimated to have 200-400 active nuclear warheads. In comparison, India’s strategic nuclear force is estimated to have stockpiled about 50-70 nuclear warheads. The most powerful warhead tested by India had an yield of 0.05 megatons which is quite small compared to China’s highest yield of 4 megatons. India’s nuclear delivery system consists of bombers, supersonic cruise missiles and medium range ballistic missiles. Agni 2, India’s longest range deployed ballistic missile is capable of a range of 2500 km, carrying a single nuclear warhead of ~1000 kg. In stark contrast, China’s nuclear delivery system is far more capable with multiple warhead (MIRV) ICBMs like DF-5A [12000+ km] and DF-4 [7500+ km]. It also fields submarine launched SLBMs like JL-2 [8500+ km] and strategic fighter bombers like Su-27 Flanker in its nuclear delivery arsenal.

Economic theory teaches us that incentives drive decision making by a nation or an individual. In case of India, a democracy with no serious military adversary, its militarisation drive is often overshadowed by internal militancy issues and political struggles. In case of a communist China, it has a powerful military adversary in United States; the conflicts over Taiwan give China a strong incentive to beef up its military defence to counter the US military might. The situation is much similar to that of USSR vs USA Cold War, albeit on a much smaller scale. The end result is China walking far ahead of India in military might with overpowering superiority if both conventional and nuclear forces are taken into account.
India vs China on Military Strength - Conventional and Nuclear | Aby The Liberal

 

[RAHUL INDIAN]

Dream on, cos its free, but reality always there to haunt you when you are awake;

In strategic nuclear defence and delivery systems, China’s PLA is miles ahead of India’s nuclear forces. The PLA’s stockpile is estimated to have 200-400 active nuclear warheads. In comparison, India’s strategic nuclear force is estimated to have stockpiled about 50-70 nuclear warheads. The most powerful warhead tested by India had an yield of 0.05 megatons which is quite small compared to China’s highest yield of 4 megatons. India’s nuclear delivery system consists of bombers, supersonic cruise missiles and medium range ballistic missiles. Agni 2, India’s longest range deployed ballistic missile is capable of a range of 2500 km, carrying a single nuclear warhead of ~1000 kg. In stark contrast, China’s nuclear delivery system is far more capable with multiple warhead (MIRV) ICBMs like DF-5A [12000+ km] and DF-4 [7500+ km]. It also fields submarine launched SLBMs like JL-2 [8500+ km] and strategic fighter bombers like Su-27 Flanker in its nuclear delivery arsenal.

Economic theory teaches us that incentives drive decision making by a nation or an individual. In case of India, a democracy with no serious military adversary, its militarisation drive is often overshadowed by internal militancy issues and political struggles. In case of a communist China, it has a powerful military adversary in United States; the conflicts over Taiwan give China a strong incentive to beef up its military defence to counter the US military might. The situation is much similar to that of USSR vs USA Cold War, albeit on a much smaller scale. The end result is China walking far ahead of India in military might with overpowering superiority if both conventional and nuclear forces are taken into account.
India vs China on Military Strength - Conventional and Nuclear | Aby The Liberal

U have more nuclear weapons accepted..... But India got sufficient nuclear weapons to burn China up... you can keep the extra ones....not required....

India also has Megaton capacity for nukes. We tested it in Pokhran for 200 KT by reducing its yield and it was a succeess. So MT capability again India has. (and India can take as many as it likes from Russia in case we like, even bombs upto 50 MT, the biggest so far tested by Russia. though we dont need)

Reality which might haunt u instead is,

having 12000 km range missile is no superiority..!! Coz we have what it takes to strike China....

India also going to have Agni-V(5000+ kms, MIRV and with newer techs then old chinese missiles), Nerpa Nuclear Sub(the best in nuclear subs and much much better then any nuclear chinese sub) and Arihant nuclear sub(Charlie-II class and again among the best), and we alread have much more better Fighter Bombers(SU 30 MKI, Mig-29 and Dassault Mirage 2000) then China for delivery of Nukes..

so plz keep the nukes and 12000 km missiles out of equation.

 

[Brotherhood]

U have more nuclear weapons accepted..... But India got sufficient nuclear weapons to burn China up... you can keep the extra ones....not required....

having 12000 km range missile is no superiority..!! Coz we have what it takes to strike China....

I thought you said in your previous post that India missiles(Agni-2) are much more advance than China, and now what say?

Next time do some home work before shooting your baseless trash, in order to earn respect, you need "FACTS" to support your claim period.

 

[RAHUL INDIAN]

I thought you said in your previous post that India missiles(Agni-2) are much more advance than China, and now what say?

Next time do some home work before shooting your baseless trash, in order to earn respect, you need "FACTS" to support your claim period.

I said Agni II much more advanced then DF-21. Check again. It serves its purpose. Ur 12000 km missile is a waste against India. U can even build 50000 KM missile who cares.

It is not range competition.

 

[chauism]

DF-21 may be old... but i am not denying it..

My only point is Agni II is much more advanced and better then DF-21 and it is for those who always criticize Indian missiles.

Here is your problem. Both missiles have about the same range, and have about the same CEP < 50 meters. For the warheads even though theoritically Agni II is able to carry heavier load of 1000 kg vs DF-21's 600 kg, but DF-21's yield is more than three times large than Agni II's, 700 kt vs 200 kt. Then let's get back to the basics of those missiles, the rocket itself. There is not much sources regarding both of the missiles' rocket engines. But from the information of those commercial rockets availiable in both countries, I don't think I need to cite any sources about who has more advanced rockets. If you know what specific impulse is , just check on what both countries commerial rockets' SI is, then you will get a better idea.

 

[RAHUL INDIAN]

Here is your problem. Both missiles have about the same range, and have about the same CEP < 50 meters. For the warheads even though theoritically Agni II is able to carry heavier load of 1000 kg vs DF-21's 600 kg, but DF-21's yield is more than three times large than Agni II's, 700 kt vs 200 kt. Then let's get back to the basics of those missiles, the rocket itself. There is not much sources regarding both of the missiles' rocket engines. But from the information of those commercial rockets availiable in both countries, I don't think I need to cite any sources about who has more advanced rockets. If you know what specific impulse is , just check on what both countries commerial rockets' SI is, then you will get a better idea.

Look who told u India dosnt have MT nuke?? dont take it for granted.
As u say above, Agni II payload > DF-21 payload.
Speed of Agni II > speed of DF-21
Range of Agni II > Range of DF-21
and also it is updated with latest techs, while DF-21 is old missile.
So what else...

What is commercial cap of rockets has nothign to do with what kind of rockets used for missiles. So i wont go into the commerical rockets part.That we can discuss later.

 

[chauism]

I said Agni II much more advanced then DF-21. Check again. It serves its purpose. Ur 12000 km missile is a waste against India. U can even build 50000 KM missile who cares.

It is not range competition.

Also if you want to support your claim of how advanced Agni II is, then bring out facts or logical deduction. Just keeping saying Agni II is more advanced is not going to make it into a reality.

Just from the pictures, tell me which one looks better.

 

[RAHUL INDIAN]

Also if you want to support your claim of how advanced Agni II is, then bring out facts or logical deduction. Just keeping saying Agni II is more advanced is not going to make it into a reality.

see my post just above ur post and the introduction to the thread.

 

[chauism]

Look who told u India dosnt have MT nuke?? dont take it for granted.
As u say above, Agni II payload > DF-21 payload.
Speed of Agni II > speed of DF-21
Range of Agni II > Range of DF-21
and also it is updated with latest techs, while DF-21 is old missile.
So what else...

What is commercial cap of rockets has nothign to do with what kind of rockets used for missiles. So i wont go into the commerical rockets part.That we can discuss later.

You still want to discuss about the issue of speed, even after a simple explanation of physics to you?

Agni II theoritically has the maximum range of 3000 km, Agni II which is about the same as DF-21C that enter service in 1996.

DF-21 itself has been evolving over time as well, in case you don't know, the recent ASAT missile SC-19/KS-19 and ASBM are all based on DF-21.

As for India has MT nuclear weapons, please provide any creditable source to back this claim. All the tests india has
done including one termonuclear one are all under 60 kton. Also there is a big difference between what the yields India had claimed and they had reported.
TEST DEVICE DATE YIELD claimed YIELD reported
Fission device 18 May 1974 12-15 kiloton 4-6 kiloton
Shakti 1 Thermonuclear device 11 May 1998 43-60 kiloton 12-25 kiloton
Shakti 2 Fission device 11 May 1998 12 kiloton ??
Shakti 3 Low-yield device 11 May 1998 0.2 kiloton low
Shakti 4 Low-yield device 13 May 1998 0.5 kiloton low
Shakti 5 Low-yield device 13 May 1998 0.3 kiloton low
Nuclear Weapons - India Nuclear Forces

Then let's say India do have a megaton device, but it is a totally different story when it is made into a workable missile warhead. There is an issue of limits of yield to weight ratio of nuclear weapon. Agni II's RV which theotically have 200 kton yields already weights 1000 kg, which leave no room for any manuverabilty of the warhead itself. It was not until RV Mk2 that Agni II's RV had ablity to correct its course. If you don't know how hard miniturization of nuclear weapon is, then I have nothing more to say to you about this issue.

The 1980-vintage RV was reportedly designed to be able to carry a BARC-developed, boosted nuclear weapon of 200 KT yield weighing 1,000 kg, also of 1980 vintage design. After making room for new and lighter Indian thermonuclear weapon payload, of 1995 vintage design, the MRV has room for about 200 kg (estimated) liquid fuel in pressurized vessels. Although for velocity correction, approximately 50 to 80 kg is estimated to be sufficient. At least one MRV variant type uses a set of solid fuelled cartridges for velocity trimming. The RV is reported to have an attitude control system and aerodynamic manoeuvre fins, presumably to make missile defense more difficult. Unconfirmed reports suggest that an improved optical or radar terminal phase correlation system has been developed to provide accuracy of around 40 meters CEP, although later reports have suggested that the accuracy was around 100 to 200 meters CEP. The RV largely inherits the basic shape, design and technology of the earlier Mk.1 RV of the Agni-TD.

Agni-II

There is issue of nuclear weapon testing, without testing of nuclear weapon itself, no one can truly determine the effectiveness, yield and explosive capability of nuclear weapons. That is why nations tireless tested them throughtout last half century until nuclear weapon test was banned. Those tests were not just for shows. So again where is your prove of megaton device from india?

Commercial rockets has everything to do with missiles. They are like identical twins. It is safe to say every commercial rocket can be turned into a workable missile and vice versa.

 

[RAHUL INDIAN]

You still want to discuss about the issue of speed, even after a simple explanation of physics to you?

Agni II theoritically has the maximum range of 3000 km, Agni II which is about the same as DF-21C that enter service in 1996.

DF-21 itself has been evolving over time as well, in case you don't know, the recent ASAT missile SC-19/KS-19 and ASBM are all based on DF-21.

As for India has MT nuclear weapons, please provide any creditable source to back this claim. All the tests india has
done including one termonuclear one are all under 60 kton. Also there is a big difference between what the yields India had claimed and they had reported.
TEST DEVICE DATE YIELD
claimed YIELD
reported
Fission device 18 May 1974 12-15 kiloton 4-6 kiloton
Shakti 1 Thermonuclear device 11 May 1998 43-60 kiloton 12-25 kiloton
Shakti 2 Fission device 11 May 1998 12 kiloton ??
Shakti 3 Low-yield device 11 May 1998 0.2 kiloton low
Shakti 4 Low-yield device 13 May 1998 0.5 kiloton low
Shakti 5 Low-yield device 13 May 1998 0.3 kiloton low
Nuclear Weapons - India Nuclear Forces

Then let's say India do have a megaton device, but it is a totally different story when it is made into a workable missile warhead. There is an issue of limits of yield to weight ratio of nuclear weapon. Agni II's RV which theotically have 200 kton yields already weights 1000 kg. If you don't know how hard miniturization of nuclear weapon is, then I have nothing more to say to you about this issue.

There is issue of nuclear weapon testing, without testing of nuclear weapon itself, no one can truly determine the effectiveness, yield and explosive capability of nuclear weapons. That is why nations tireless tested them throughtout last half century until nuclear weapon test was banned. So again where is your prove of megaton device from india?

Commercial rockets has everything to do with missiles. They are like identical twins. It is safe to say every commercial rocket can be turned into a workable missile and vice versa.

India has tested a Hydrogen Bomb with reduced yield....It was a success if u do not beleive in conspiracy theories....
u have been given sources also for speed of Agni.

 

[chauism]

India has tested a Hydrogen Bomb with reduced yield....It was a success if u do not beleive in conspiracy theories....
u have been given sources also for speed of Agni.

India did test staging thermonuclear device in may 11th, 1998 which yield as they claimed 60 kton, but yield reported was 25 kton if that is what you refering to. Other than that, no one in the world knows or will believe.

First of all, speed is correlated with missile's range from simple physics. If you have a higher speed for a missile, then theoritically it will have longer maximum range proportional to its speed.

Second of all, the speed of 7km/s is a typical burnout speed from ICBM boost phase, so I don't think it is the burnout speed for Agni II or DF-21. For most ballistic missile, RV reenters the Earth's atmosphere at velocities of up to Mach (M) 25 (8.5km/s). As the RV passes through the atmosphere, atmospheric friction decelerates it to its therminal speed or impact speed below M 1(343 m/s), modern RVs can reach up to Mach 11(4km/s) with the helps of better aerodynamics, and converts its kinetic energy primarily into thermal energy (heat).

Ballistic Missile Basics
Intercontinental ballistic missile
So the speed everyone is citing here are all different speed of different phase of missiles' path.

That is what you call facts. Not just something you pull out of you *******. It take me at least 15 minutes to do research and facts finding and validate those facts before every reply in order to educate people like yourself. I am just curious how long do you take your time? It is thing like this makes people do not take whatever you say seriously.

 

[dingyibvs]

India did test staging thermonuclear device in may 11th, 1998 which yield as they claimed 60 kton, but yield reported was 25 kton if that is what you refering to. Other than that, no one in the world knows or will believe.

First of all, speed is correlated with missile's range from simple physics. If you have a higher speed for a missile, then theoritically it will have longer maximum range proportional to its speed.

Second of all, the speed of 7km/s is a typical burnout speed from ICBM boost phase, so I don't think it is the burnout speed for Agni II or DF-21. For most ballistic missile, RV reenters the Earth's atmosphere at velocities of up to Mach (M) 25 (8.5km/s). As the RV passes through the atmosphere, atmospheric friction decelerates it to its therminal speed or impact speed below M 1(343 km/s), modern RVs can reach up to Mach 11(4km/s) with the helps of better aerodynamics, and converts its kinetic energy primarily into thermal energy (heat).

Ballistic Missile Basics
Intercontinental ballistic missile
So the speed everyone is citing here are all different speed of different phase of missiles' path.

That is what you call facts. Not just something you pull out of you *******. It take me at least 15 minutes to do research and facts finding and validate those facts before every reply in order to educate people like yourself. I am just curious how long do you take your time? It is thing like this makes people do not take whatever you say seriously.

Dude, didn't you hear? Indian missiles are advanced, unlike those dumb Chinese missiles which still have to follow the laws of physics

Just give it up, none of us is gonna convince this guy, he's probably very young and stubborn. You know how teenagers are, everything they think is right, no adult can tell him otherwise!

 

[chauism]

Dude, didn't you hear? Indian missiles are advanced, unlike those dumb Chinese missiles which still have to follow the laws of physics

Just give it up, none of us is gonna convince this guy, he's probably very young and stubborn. You know how teenagers are, everything they think is right, no adult can tell him otherwise!

I guess the rumor is true then, India does have and prefected Zentradi technology for their use.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

China had ICBM's already since the 1970's, India is so far behind that it's laughable.

India is no match against China+Pakistan and never will be.

 

[qwerrty]

indian scientists invent new law of physics....just give up..