Indian air force "pilots" had a very low flying hours in 1990s

[satishkumarcsc]

Its useless arguing with you as Maj. Mark A. Snowden himself accepted that Indians have more training hours than USAF. I rather take his words tha an internet warrior like you who is bent on proving something that is just a myth. And can you give me any other source of numbers pertaining to your above claims?

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Its useless arguing with you as Maj. Mark A. Snowden himself accepted that Indians have more training hours than USAF. I rather take his words tha an internet warrior like you who is bent on proving something that is just a myth. And can you give me any other source of numbers pertaining to your above claims?

So are we blowing facts and figures out of proportion for ego satisfaction? good thats what indians are known for.
Just dont post this ridiculous claim of IAF pilots clocking more hours then USAF in some other forum with alot of americans, because they will shoot you down for being a fanboy.

Like i said. IAF used their best of the best pilots in cope-india and only them have good amount of flying hours compared to USAF who brought only average pilots. What is more important is how much hours average IAF fighter pilot clocks in a year which is no more then 170-180 hours.

 

[psychedelic_renegade]

Like i said. IAF used their best of the best pilots in cope-india and only them have good amount of flying hours compared to USAF who brought only average pilots. What is more important is how much hours average IAF fighter pilot clocks in a year which is no more then 170-180 hours.

In Cope-India 2004 exercise (which your text is referring to) mostly involved IAF best of the best pilots and only few IAF MKI pilots are more then medically fit to clock 300 hours a year.

USAF explains 'Cope India' Results

These same U.S. participants say the Indian pilots showed innovation and flexibility in their tactics. They also admit that they came into the exercise underrating the training and tactics of the pilots they faced. Instead of typical Cold War-style, ground-controlled interceptions, the Indians varied aircraft mixes, altitudes and formations. Indian air force planners never reinforced failure or repeated tactics that the U.S. easily repelled. Moreover, the IAF's airborne commanders changed tactics as opportunities arose. Nor did U.S. pilots believe they faced only India's top guns. Instead, they said that at least in some units they faced a mix of experienced and relatively new Indian fighter and strike pilots.

Cope India was held Feb. 15-28 at Gwalior, about 150 mi. south of Delhi, where the Indian air force has its Tactics Air Combat Development Establishment, which operates late-model MiG-21 Fishbeds as fighter escorts and MiG-27 Floggers as strike aircraft. Aerospace officials who have heard the classified brief on the exercise say the MiG-21s were equipped with a "gray-market" Bison radar and avionics upgrade.

Mica-armed Dassault Mirages 2000s are also stationed there. Brought in for the exercise were Sukhoi Su-30s (but not the newest Su-30 MKIs) carrying simulated AA-11s and AA-12 Adders. There also were five MiG-29 Flankers involved in a peripheral role and an Antonov An-32 Cline as a simulated AWACS.

 

[Mogambo]

The officer said future missions would be more complex, requiring them to stay airborne for 12 to 15 hours. "We can keep the fighters airborne for as long as we want.

Former IAF chief Air Chief Marshal Fali Homi Major, said, "The IAF seems to be gearing up for expeditionary missions. Human endurance should not be a limiting factor in the cockpit."

Pilots wear diapers on bombing missions- Hindustan Times

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Nor did U.S. pilots believe they faced only India's top guns. Instead, they said that at least in some units they faced a mix of experienced and relatively new Indian fighter and strike pilots.

I hope you can comprehend this quite well. All it says that IAF mostly brought top guns pilots and some units had mix of experience and relatively new pilots. Thats why the 300 hours is refereed to them because top guns pilots fly alot more then average pilots.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

The officer said future missions would be more complex, requiring them to stay airborne for 12 to 15 hours. "We can keep the fighters airborne for as long as we want.

Former IAF chief Air Chief Marshal Fali Homi Major, said, "The IAF seems to be gearing up for expeditionary missions. Human endurance should not be a limiting factor in the cockpit."

Pilots wear diapers on bombing missions- Hindustan Times

oh waoooh! such a feat! can only be accomplished by IAF pilots with diapers!
still does not prove anything about average flying hours of IAF pilots. all it shows that IAF MKI will have the capability to fly up to 12 hours in one mission which will be done very very rarely.

 

[satishkumarcsc]

So are we blowing facts and figures out of proportion for ego satisfaction? good thats what indians are known for.
Just dont post this ridiculous claim of IAF pilots clocking more hours then USAF in some other forum with alot of americans, because they will shoot you down for being a fanboy.

Like i said. IAF used their best of the best pilots in cope-india and only them have good amount of flying hours compared to USAF who brought only average pilots. What is more important is how much hours average IAF fighter pilot clocks in a year which is no more then 170-180 hours.

That is the only part of the whole post you are right about. Or else there is no reason for the existance of the thread.

You made up some numbers on your own imagination. You did a calculations and you, yourself did an analysis on those numbers and voila you have an hypothesis. And you guess you are the time-keeper of IAF? So where did you arrive to the figure of 170-180 hours now?

And whatever that is you are smoking tell me what it is...that sh!t is good!!!!!!

 

[Prowler]

I am not here to spoon feed trollers like you 24/7. I am sure you guys have internet and google access in India, so use it. Learn about Pilots health issues in flying.

Face it buddy you can't answer those questions if you make claims then you are ought to answer questions it's your duty since it's you who started this thread trying to prove something (which you are clearly failing at just like in the other threads)...

 

[ptldM3]

You have blown the picture out of proportion.

In Cope-India 2004 exercise (which your text is referring to) mostly involved IAF best of the best pilots

This is not true, India had a mix of experienced and realatively unexperienced pilots take part in the exercises.

and only few IAF MKI pilots are more then medically fit to clock 300 hours a year.

Give me a source that says that.

This absurd claim of 300 hours per pilot and representing it as average IAF Flanker pilots hours is just flawed.

Back that up with a source, MKI are India's best there is no reason why some MKI pilots would be deprived of flight hours while others would receive more. My source claimed 300 hours for MKI pilots, not 300 hours for some MKI pilots.

 

[toxic_pus]

Attention: READ THE THREAD AND THEN POST!

LINK

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4061/4603767222_322aaef41f_o.jpg


IAF total inventory in 1997 = 1650~

Combat fixed wing air crafts= 704
Training aircrafts= 318
Fixed wing transport aircrafts= 264
Rotorwing= 389


In 1997/98 the IAF logged 306,190 hours



average flying hours clocked per IAF fixed-rotor wings aircraft in a total year= 180 hours per airframe.

Their is minimum pilot to cockpit ratio of 2 pilots per aircraft.

so the average pilot hours clocked in one year equals= 90 hours



This average pilot flying hours of 90 does not translates to 90 hours per fighter jet pilot.
We know for a fact the that Transport aircrafts such as fixed and rotor wings clocks at least 2.5x more hours in average then fighter jets.



rotor/fixed wing transport air crafts= 653
90*2.5 = 225 hours clocked per each transport aircraft or 146,925 hours in total by entire transport fleet in a year.

leaving 159,265 hours for fighter and training aircrafts fleet.
In air force academies their is a huge pilot to cockpit ratio compared to combat squadrons however students fly way less compared to combat squadrons pilots. so this should mean combat planes and training aircraft fly roughly the same amount of hours.

159,265/1022= 155 hours per aircraft

or 77 hours per average pilot.

Is it just me or someone else has also noticed his amazing Madrassa maths. He divides the total of flight hours by total number of aircrafts, further dividing the quotient by 2, to get the average per pilot per aircraft. Then he multiplies *this* average by 2.5 to get the average flight hours per transport aircraft, not per pilot per transport aircraft. He then subtracts *this* figure from the total of flight hours and assigns the balance to the total number of pilots of the entire fleet of fighters and trainers.

We are lucky that he slept through his maths class, even in Madrassa, because if he had used the right procedure then, the average flight hours of what he calls ‘fighter and training aircraft’s fleet’, would be even lower.

It is another thing that, true to his madrassa education, he has pulled a few figures from, lets say, a part of his anatomy. From the same Bharat Rakshak link

‘…we know that 50% of the IAF flying hours in 1997/98, or 153,000 hours, were contributed by fighters…’​

This means average for just the fighters, using Growlers magic number of 704, is 217 hrs per aircraft.

Really, the lengths some people will go to, just to.....

 

[Myth_buster_1]

This is not true, India had a mix of experienced and realatively unexperienced pilots take part in the exercises.
Give me a source that says that.
Back that up with a source, MKI are India's best there is no reason why some MKI pilots would be deprived of flight hours while others would receive more. My source claimed 300 hours for MKI pilots, not 300 hours for some MKI pilots.

At least read few other posts before asking the same question which has been debunked.

LINK

Nor did U.S. pilots believe they faced only India's top guns. Instead, they said that at least in some units they faced a mix of experienced and relatively new Indian fighter and strike pilots.

So now can you comprehend the fact that 300 hours is only refereed to top pilots who were brought in the cope-india exercise? Only and only in some units India brought some new pilots from few units while the big majority were top pilots.

 

[Gene]

This is a decade year old story man ! why are we discussing it?we will get nothing from it.

90's mein to bahat kuch hua tha bhai like:-
micheal jackson jinda tha....
bill clinton ka monica lewinsky ke saath chakkar tha..
tab main bhi pant mein kabhi kabhi susu kar deta tha...

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Is it just me or someone else has also noticed his amazing Madrassa maths. He divides the total of flight hours by total number of aircrafts, further dividing the quotient by 2, to get the average per pilot per aircraft. Then he multiplies *this* average by 2.5 to get the average flight hours per transport aircraft, not per pilot per transport aircraft. He then subtracts *this* figure from the total of flight hours and assigns the balance to the total number of pilots of the entire fleet of fighters and trainers.

I can only blame your poor mandir comprehension.

We are lucky that he slept through his maths class, even in Madrassa, because if he had used the right procedure then, the average flight hours of what he calls ‘fighter and training aircraft’s fleet’, would be even lower.
It is another thing that, true to his madrassa education, he has pulled a few figures from, lets say, a part of his anatomy. From the same Bharat Rakshak link

Only a low class like yourself would feel necessary to win the argument by bringing madrassa into every arguments which you lose all the time after all you only get free mandir education which is useless as your posts and yourself.

‘…we know that 50% of the IAF flying hours in 1997/98, or 153,000 hours, were contributed by fighters…’​

This means average for just the fighters, using Growlers magic number of 704, is 217 hrs per aircraft.

Really, the lengths some people will go to, just to.....

you have not been able to provide any substantial information to counter the argument other then showing us what a low class mandir educated you are.

I have only used Bharatraksaw total IAF flying hours figures while the rest of that article is as worthless as toilet paper.

I hope your mandir education has taught you to do some additions.

total inventory adds up to 1650~.
Before you try to act smart, 40 Su-30s were ordered in 1997 and only 8 were serving.

if we do simple maths.... i need you to pay attention now... ok...
306,190 hours divided by 1650 aircrafts equals= 185 hours per air craft. And then when we bring in pilot to cockpit ratio the flying hours per pilot is way less then 185 hours figure.
Btw learn a thing or two about your air force. The transport aircrafts including fixed and rotor flys more hours then Fighter jets and this applies to all the air force around the world.
Transport fleet of 650 and training aircraft fleet of 318 getting only 50% of the 306,190 is just simply absurd.

 

[Windjammer]

The India Air Force has the worst crash record in the world
May 12, 2009 in India
Tags: Crash Record, IAF, Indian Air Force
According to statistical data available from multiple sources the Indian Air Force (IAF) has the dubious distinction of having the highest crash rate in the world. No other Air Foce comes close. Bharat has a tender bid open to purchase 126 brand spanking new Aircrafts from some of the best plane manufacturers in the world. Delhi has been able to maintain the ignominious distinction of having the worst track record in the word. If the current crash rates continue, it can crash all of its new hardware in 5 to 10 years.

An anonymous American analyst said the following “This is really unacceptable. Some heads should roll over this, and frankly this insane crash rate is making the IAF the laughing stock of airforces around the world.“

Some salient facts about the crashes with references.

India, using mostly Russian aircraft, has an accident rate of 6-7 per 100,000 hours flown (compared to 4-5 for all NATO air forces.)
The Indian rate had been over ten for many years, and it is still that high, and often higher, with other nations (including Russia and China), that use Russian aircraft designs.
F-15s and F-16s have an accident rate of 3-4 per 100,000 flight hours.
World Record: 500th Flying coffin crashes
1970-2005: IAF has recorded around 700 crashes since 1970, with around 180 pilots and scores of civilians on the ground losing their lives Publication: The Times of India, Date: Monday, September 4 2006
1970-2005: f the 793 MiG-21s progressively inducted in IAF since 1963, 330 have been lost in accidents. The Times of India, Date: Monday, September 4 2006′
Most of the crashes have been attributed to pilot incompetence and a lack of training. Another major factor pointed out by the Russians is the fact that Bhrat insisted on using poorly manufactured local parts. After several hundred Migs had crashed, the IAF blamed the manufacturer of a faulty fuel pump. According to the IAF the breakdown in 2005 is as follows. 40%; human error (servicing) 2%; technical defects 41%; bird hits 9%; unresolved 6%; and others 2%.

The India Air Force has the worst crash record in the world Military Strategy

 

[manojb]

I bet none of the members discussing here have any air force exp. All are google experts. can some one throw economics of flying hour for us dummies? Afterall  flying hour is directly proportianal to economics to some extent. Thats what i think. No?