Indian Aggression at LOC: Another Pakistan Army Soldier Martyred

[ares]

Yes nice !

You lost more than us , we were the aggressors then , dear ... If you had crossed the LOC and cut off the supply lines that would reduced your causalities in half according to your own defense experts/analysts ... What stopped you then ?

Do not tell me you were naive enough not to realize it afterwards ... Yeah that is the point , kid ... The nukes ! You were telling us how nukes didn't stop Indians from retaking their land , forgetting that no one dared cross the LOC to Northern Areas because of !

Oh , I wont ... Check the Kargil thread ...

Actually no!! Pakistan army official figures can not be trusted as far a Kargil war is concerned.. since they are notorious spreading misinformation amongst its own people...for example it did not even accept that it was its own forces and not some Mujaheddin fighting until after a decade of war.

United States Library of Congress estimates...Pakistan lost somewhere around 786 soldiers in the war..And offcourse your own PM estimated around 4000 casualties(which I believe might be exaggerated).

But US numbers are to believed then Pakistan lost higher number of men despite of having the height advantage.

One of the very strong reasons of not crossing the LOC, was Pakistan was drawing Flak from all over the world to have initiated a conflict where as India was being praised for its restraint of not crossing the LOC.

Crossing the LOC, would have turned the world opinion , which was in Indian favor and there would have been immense international pressure to end the war..probably even with some Indian peaks remaining under Pakistani control.

But as you very well know ..Pakistani logistical lines were eventually cut by intense artillery and aerial bombardment..such as towards the end of the conflict ..Pakistani soldiers were even running out daily rations.

 

[Jango]

I read a Indian newspaper article today on the net that the Indian Army is amassing troops in Gujrat and Rajasthan.

Any news from the Indian side? Any truth to the story or just sensationalism?

 

[rockstarIN]

I read a Indian newspaper article today on the net that the Indian Army is amassing troops in Gujrat and Rajasthan.

Any news from the Indian side? Any truth to the story or just sensationalism?

Not yet, may be for Feb 13 excercise which was scheduled way before.

 

[Secur]

Actually no!! Pakistan army official figures can not be trusted as far a Kargil war is concerned.. since they are notorious spreading misinformation amongst its own people...for example it did not even accept that it was its own forces and not some Mujaheddin fighting until after a decade of war.

United States Library of Congress estimates...Pakistan lost somewhere around 786 soldiers in the war..And offcourse your own PM estimated around 4000 casualties(which I believe might be exaggerated).

Actually no ! Indian army's figures cant be trusted as far as Kargil is concerned since we always had the advantage of height in that area and military experts know what does it translate into , if the IAF weren't there ... You wouldn't have regained anything Your army is notorious too , claiming some beheading in 30 seconds of firefight 600m deep inside their own territory ... Yes it didn't accept at first that they were regular PA but it admitted after they were discovered , they call it " strategy " ...

Indian didn't cross dare the LOC or IB because Pakistan was getting its nukes ready if you tried to escalate the conflict further , this was confirmed by neutral sources ... You knew that well , hence attributing the decision to not cross any borders to International image and sympathy is wrong to say the least ... Your defense experts are unanimous that had the IA crossed the LOC , the causalities would have been cut by half ... What stopped you back then ?

 

[Pride]

I read a Indian newspaper article today on the net that the Indian Army is amassing troops in Gujrat and Rajasthan.

Any news from the Indian side? Any truth to the story or just sensationalism?

Mere a sensationalism. Whatever has to happen, It would have started. Now, Nothing is gonna change.

 

[Secur]

The PA estimates is of regular forces only. It does not include Mujahideens killed by IA. And what stopped pakistan from openly declaring war despite of having nukes?? Air cover by PAF could have saved some.

Oh stop it kid!! Your nation was not brave enough to declare a war against India inspite of having nukes. Not a single pakistani official dared to admit that it was Pakistani regulars as well. What stopped you then? Indian Nukes??

Already checked. Waiting for the claim.

Do you expect my forces to release figures for irregulars too who usually operate on their own ? Sure , did IA release some estimation of the Muhajideens killed ? ... Kargil was a " limited conflict " in a limited area - not by any chance a war , it had to be done quietly , hence no declaration of war ... Why warn and alert the enemy ? ... Did China warn of war when it took Aksai Chin in '62 ? ... So ?

Kid , your forces have amassed at the border and then backed off two times in '87 and '02 with heavy causalities during mobilization and warned of whatnot in '08 against some 5x smaller neighbor ... What bravery are you talking about , when you didn't have the guts to cross the border despite overwhelming conventional superiority ?

Here you go , what I posted months ago on a Kargil thread ...

Near Tiger Hill, Point 5353 still Pak-occupied - Indian Express

Standing tall and dominating the famous Tiger Hill on the Line of Control (LoC) is a grim reminder of the Kargil war. Point 5353, the highest peak in the region which has a clear view of the National Highway 1 D, remains occupied by Pakistan even a decade after the battle.

The Indian Army, which made several unsuccessful attempts to occupy the post after the Kargil war, has since given up the post as “untenable” given the geography of the region that makes it fairly easy for Pakistani troops to climb.What makes Point 5353 so valuable for the two armies is that it has a clear view of the national highway that connects the Kashmir valley with Kargil.

News behind the News

A total of 6 peaks on the Indian side of the LoC were still occupied by Pakistan, including Point 5353. The others are Pt Aftab-I, Pt Saddle Ridge, Pt Bunker Ridge, Shangruti and Dhalunag.

http://www.tehelka.com/story_main4.asp?filename=Ne071704pakistan_still.asp&id=1

On July 26, the country celebrates Vijay Diwas to commemorate India’s victory in the Kargil war. But five years since the war, four strategic Indian posts in Kargil are still under Pakistani control and the government is not ready to spell out the truth, reports VK Shashikumar
Point 5353, Bunker Ridge, Saddle Ridge, Dalu Nag. These are posts in the Kargil sector that the soldiers of the Indian army knew incontrovertibly to be their own.

 

[Babbar-Khalsa]

I dont think BSF is deployed on LOC

correct...BSF is deployed along the plains like Punjab and Rajhasthan......only army is deployed along LOC .

 

[airmarshal]

First they had 26/11 now they have a artificial story of Pakistan army beheading their soldiers.

When will India start acting like a mature woman? Why India is always like a Bollywood heroine running in front of Pakistan finding excuses to not make peace?

After a few month, India will be talking to Pakistan so please stop this posturing.

 

[Secur]

After a few month, India will be talking to Pakistan so please stop this posturing.

Of course

 

[MilSpec]

Do you expect my forces to release figures for irregulars too who usually operate on their own ? Sure , did IA release some estimation of the Muhajideens killed ? ... Kargil was a " limited conflict " in a limited area , it had to be done quietly , hence no declaration ... Did China warn of war when it took Aksai Chin in '62 ? ... So ?

Kid , your forces have amassed at the border and then backed off two times in '87 and '02 with heavy causalities during mobilization and warned of whatnot in '08 against some 5x smaller neighbor ... What bravery are you talking about , when you didn't have the guts to cross the border despite overwhelming conventional superiority ?

Near Tiger Hill, Point 5353 still Pak-occupied - Indian Express

Standing tall and dominating the famous Tiger Hill on the Line of Control (LoC) is a grim reminder of the Kargil war. Point 5353, the highest peak in the region which has a clear view of the National Highway 1 D, remains occupied by Pakistan even a decade after the battle.

The Indian Army, which made several unsuccessful attempts to occupy the post after the Kargil war, has since given up the post as “untenable” given the geography of the region that makes it fairly easy for Pakistani troops to climb.What makes Point 5353 so valuable for the two armies is that it has a clear view of the national highway that connects the Kashmir valley with Kargil.

News behind the News

A total of 6 peaks on the Indian side of the LoC were still occupied by Pakistan, including Point 5353. The others are Pt Aftab-I, Pt Saddle Ridge, Pt Bunker Ridge, Shangruti and Dhalunag.

Tehelka - The People's Paper

On July 26, the country celebrates Vijay Diwas to commemorate India’s victory in the Kargil war. But five years since the war, four strategic Indian posts in Kargil are still under Pakistani control and the government is not ready to spell out the truth, reports VK Shashikumar
Point 5353, Bunker Ridge, Saddle Ridge, Dalu Nag. These are posts in the Kargil sector that the soldiers of the Indian army knew incontrovertibly to be their own.

Army respected the unfortunate ceasefire... I have always maintained kargil was missed opportunity as India should have been knocking on lahore same as in 65... Unfortunately vajpayee and his non-escalation policy costed dearly.

 

[Secur]

Army respected the unfortunate ceasefire... I have always maintained kargil was missed opportunity as India should have been knocking on lahore same as in 65... Unfortunately vajpayee and his non-escalation policy costed dearly.

Well I didn't mean to start this whole debate here in this thread since it was obviously off topic , but some trollers need to be silenced who think they can utter nonsense and get away with it ... For the record , there was no ceasefire in effect at that time ...

What is done , is done ... Nothing can be changed , we wish a lot of things too ... So leave it ...

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

First they had 26/11 now they have a artificial story of Pakistan army beheading their soldiers.

When will India start acting like a mature woman? Why India is always like a Bollywood heroine running in front of Pakistan finding excuses to not make peace?

After a few month, India will be talking to Pakistan so please stop this posturing.

theyre too used to drama and masala b/c of their excessive bollywood culture.....to them, everything may seem 'real' but that is due to perceptional issues which they will have to sort out among themselves

 

[acid rain]

Army respected the unfortunate ceasefire... I have always maintained kargil was missed opportunity as India should have been knocking on lahore same as in 65... Unfortunately vajpayee and his non-escalation policy costed dearly.

PA keeps giving opportunities but our toothless politicians waste them in contemplating, now its not even worth the effort.

 

[airmarshal]

theyre too used to drama and masala b/c of their excessive bollywood culture.....to them, everything may seem 'real' but that is due to perceptional issues which they will have to sort out among themselves

I think India as a nation need to check into some psychological ward. They need brain therapy and sleep inducing pills for a long period to end this constant anxiety and a$$ burning regarding Pakistan.

 

[notorious_eagle]

Army respected the unfortunate ceasefire... I have always maintained kargil was missed opportunity as India should have been knocking on lahore same as in 65... Unfortunately vajpayee and his non-escalation policy costed dearly.

Easier said than done my friend. Contrary to all the ho ha and the B.S that the Indian Army fed your media highlighting their nobleness of not crossing the LOC, from an operational point of view your commanders were fully aware that the 12th Division was fully mobilized and ready for action. Keep in mind these soldiers were well dug in and did not face the massive constraints that the other boys had to face beyond the LOC. This battle would have been a blood bath, even advancing 1km from the Indian side would have been nothing short of miracle.

As far as knocking on the doors of Lahore is concerned, your Corps stationed at Ambala, Jalandhar and Rajashtan would have taken a lot longer to mobilize compared to Pakistan's. Your forces had a better chance of punching through the defences of Pakistan in the fluid Thar Desert than fight PA static battles on the fertile land of Punjab. The topography, canals and a very narrow axis of advance would have made life hell for your Armoured Columns. Not to mention, PA Defenders are well dug in and spread through out with ATGM hell holes, your flanks would have been consistently exposed to massive beating from these mobile ATGM teams. You are a senior member, i expect much more intelligent posts from you. When you post stuff like that, you fire up the fanboys whom actually believe that this was true. Here is an example:

PA keeps giving opportunities but our toothless politicians waste them in contemplating, now its not even worth the effort.