Indian AF Says New Indigenous Missile Will Be Too Heavy

[Jamwal's]

Anti Radiation Missile

 

[SUDIP]

What a farticle. Almost all other defense forum are bashing this one.
look like just another random poster job from any import lobby.

One more wrong info spotted:
Instead of Kh-35, Kh-31 is the dedicated ARM for SU family of aircraft, and IAF also use them for MKIs only.

Kh-31:
Weight Kh-31A :610 kg (1,340 lb)[2]
Kh-31P :600 kg (1,320 lb)[2]

Operational
range
Kh-31A: 25 km–103 km (13.5–55.6nmi; [2]
Kh-31P: up to 110 km (60 nmi; 70 mi).

Kh-35 is just an anti-ship missile. Which is also used for air to surface role. But there are little references which can prove that IAF use Kh-35, instead IAF uses Kh-59 (MKIs) which has a longer range, for stand-off air-to-surface role. Yes IN does have Kh-35 for anti-ship role.

KH-59 training round under the fuselage of MKI

Now MKI firing Kh-31 ARM

Loading of a KH-31. look at the immense size of MKI.

All pic credit: BR

 

[Jamwal's]

What a farticle. Almost all other defense forum are bashing this one.
look like just another random poster job from any import lobby.

One more wrong info spotted:
Instead of Kh-35, Kh-31 is the dedicated ARM for SU family of aircraft, and IAF also use them for MKIs only.

Kh-31:
Weight Kh-31A :610 kg (1,340 lb)[2]
Kh-31P :600 kg (1,320 lb)[2]

Operational
range
Kh-31A: 25 km–103 km (13.5–55.6nmi; [2]
Kh-31P: up to 110 km (60 nmi; 70 mi).

Kh-35 is just an anti-ship missile. Which is also used for air to surface role. But there are little references which can prove that IAF use Kh-35, instead IAF uses Kh-59 (MKIs) which has a longer range, for stand-off air-to-surface role. Yes IN does have Kh-35 for anti-ship role.

KH-59 training round under the fuselage of MKI
View attachment 297866

Now MKI firing Kh-31 ARM
View attachment 297867


Loading of a KH-31. look at the immense size of MKI.
View attachment 297868

All pic credit: BR

The KH 31P can also be used as Anti AWACS role.

 

[Omega007]

IAF as in Import-hungry Air Force!!

 

[MilSpec]

@PARIKRAMA

 

[PARIKRAMA]

@MilSpec

The report is wrong in many counts

First of all the missile would be a new design and should have similar design as Astra and Barak8. Multiple sources as well as DRDO themselves says Wind tunnel test is completed

As far as seeker is concerned its a combination actually of passive RF/IIR seeker and MMW seeker

1. MMW seeker

SauravJha: What is the MMW seeker meant for?

Satheesh Reddy: It is meant for PGMs and for the next generation anti-radiation missile (NGARM).
Saurav Jha's Blog : Seeking the future: An interview with Dr G Satheesh Reddy, Director Research Centre Imarat

2. DRDO developed seekers are like this

3. About this project this is what DRDO says

Source is a publication by DRDO

The same bit of information was also said here

Source for the above is this

@Abingdonboy @randomradio @AUSTERLITZ @Vauban @Taygibay

So the range is not 60 km nor is their any weight issue which i think is mis represented here in the report..

 

[Armani]

So the range is not 60 km nor is their any weight issue which i think is mis represented here in the report..

That's right. The range was previously mentioned as between 100 and 125km.

 

[PARIKRAMA]

That's right. The range was previously mentioned as between 100 and 125km.

Well it is clear that at max altitude of 15 kms its range is closer to 100 kms or even more.. The lower altitude is 100 m and range is 15 km.. Now thats pretty respectable for a first try for an indigenous ARM..

What i am feeling very sad is that Vivek Raghuvanshi discredited DRDO efforts of RCI. If you see IIR seeker is already tested and proven in NAG where the old Generation Nag was 4kms and NG Nag has a capability of 7km. Moreover the MMW seeker is also tested


IIR seeker by VEM

and the MMW seeker

Looking at the seeker design the NGARM can be a longer version of NAG design with changes of fins surely
and the front would be perhaps conical cover cap as shield and body fins will have shape like Astra

So front will be like this

What i mean to say is all building blocks are in house developed then where is the question of a russian seeker.. Unless we are taking a KH series seeker if and only if our own seekers have failed..

unfortunately, these components are already proven in design and in field trials already (NAG, Astra example)..

Of course dual pulse motor is derived from IAI/DRDO JV of barak 8.

As far as weight is concerned looking at @MilSpec pic of post #20, the comparable range of weight is seen.. So which missile is 160 odd kgs? The answer is none...

Secondly imagine a simple case here.. We know Barak 8 flies at Mach 2 and terminal velocity is Mach 5-7. Specs wise a similar dual pulse design will ensure our NGARM speed is much superior to all except may be Kh31P.. So in a way its not just a NGARM but rather a High Velocity NGARM or HV- NGARM..

Is not that a great achievement as a first try...

So i really dont understand what this article wanted to point.. Is someone doing shadow boxing to showcase IAF in bad light and import hungry? To me it looks like a hit job for that purpose only.

 

[sankranti]

So i really dont understand what this article wanted to point.. Is someone doing shadow boxing to showcase IAF in bad light and import hungry? To me it looks like a hit job for that purpose only.

Given the IAF chief press conference in the middle of Rafale negotiations whining of aircraft shortages, he has not IAF any favours either.

 

[SRP]

These guys in the Navy are inducting a subpar Tejas as one of their AC's airwing, and several, several other subsystems on to their platforms(which there are better alternatives), but these guys in the IAF cant even look at this?

K4s and A5s were built from Prithivs...

Because of this..........

https://twitter.com/x/status/708206170574614528

https://twitter.com/x/status/708209352767737856

And they have a plan

https://twitter.com/x/status/708206892430925824

 

[Water Car Engineer]

Because of this..........

https://twitter.com/x/status/708206170574614528

https://twitter.com/x/status/708209352767737856

And they have a plan

https://twitter.com/x/status/708206892430925824

That's true, but also it's a certain mindset as well they maintained. The navy can easily get outsourced subsystems for some of the things they've induct into their platforms, but they're not. They know importing isnt a good long term solution. The 'firsts' of anything isnt usually going to be as good as an established players equivalent, but constantly looking away from homegrown solution isnt the way forward.

The source is dubious, but if the IAF isn't even going to take a look at this, it's a joke.

 

[Abingdonboy]

So i really dont understand what this article wanted to point.. Is someone doing shadow boxing to showcase IAF in bad light and import hungry? To me it looks like a hit job for that purpose only.

That's true, but also it's a certain mindset as well they maintained. The navy can easily get outsourced subsystems for some of the things they've induct into their platforms, but they're not. They know importing isnt a good long term solution. The 'firsts' of anything isnt usually going to be as good as an established players equivalent, but constantly looking away from homegrown solution isnt the way forward.

The source is dubious, but if the IAF isn't even going to take a look at this, it's a joke.

I think @PARIKRAMA has nailed it- this isn't a reason based disucssion but is motivated with some malicious intent.

Because of this..........

https://twitter.com/x/status/708206170574614528

https://twitter.com/x/status/708209352767737856

And they have a plan

https://twitter.com/x/status/708206892430925824

I think the case of the IN is VERY different. It is comparatively easy to build a hull but in terms of cost the IN is still oimporting the most high-end equipment- sensors, weapons and propulsion. As the IN admits themselves of the, float, move and fight elements they are self sufficent on the "float" part but lacking in the other areas.

The difference between the IAF and IN is though that whilst the IAF is only interested in optimising its operational abilities and thus wanting the very best wherever it can find it. The IN looks at the bigger picture and sees that the way to best be the most operationally capable in the future is to have as much in-house elements as possible in the long term.

 

[SRP]

That's true, but also it's a certain mindset as well they maintained. The navy can easily get outsourced subsystems for some of the things they've induct into their platforms, but they're not. They know importing isnt a good long term solution. The 'firsts' of anything isnt usually going to be as good as an established players equivalent, but constantly looking away from homegrown solution isnt the way forward.

The source is dubious, but if the IAF isn't even going to take a look at this, it's a joke.

https://twitter.com/x/status/708211343501840384

https://twitter.com/x/status/708210697524514816

 

[Water Car Engineer]

I think the case of the IN is VERY different. It is comparatively easy to build a hull but in terms of cost the IN is still oimporting the most high-end equipment- sensors, weapons and propulsion. As the IN admits themselves of the, float, move and fight elements they are self sufficent on the "float" part but lacking in the other areas.

At the moment, Indian industry isnt at the point where it can produce shipbased AESA radars, or main gun, etc. nor are there any programs running for it. But they've inducted several defence suites, 3D radars, Sonars, etc. This is obviously going to be incremental process, and the navy knows it. They can easily find outside alternatives for these if they wish.

The most brazen act of support was taking up, and partially funding the N-Tejas program. Which can easily, easily be dismissed and they would be justified in not supporting the program. But these guys in the army for example fudged trials in favor of T90 for example...

 

[帅的一匹]

No surprise, DRDO keeps producing weapon that IAF don't want.