Indian Acquisition of the Gorshkov

[Kinetic]

Freinds any news about IAC-1? What's the status of Our own indigenous Aircraft carrier? can anyone post some images or video realted to IAC-1?

Thanks in advance

regards
Jailer

Its on course and it would be ready for sea trials by 2014 as planned. During Navy day on 4th December CNS Admiral Nirmal Verma said that....




"The IAC was to be launched this year and because of some indigenous equipment that could not be supplied on time, the launch has been delayed due to problems with the gearbox and a truck carrying the generators suffering an accident. We are expecting it (launch) by the middle of next year, as things stand but at the same time, efforts are on to compress the time frames by ensuring that the amount of outfitting on the warship is much more than earlier envisaged, so we cut down on time. Cochin Shipyard plans to take advantage of these delays to complete more fabrication work than had been planned. We expect to put it out at sea by 2014."

It will be a milestone if India can build first carrier in 6/7 years. From the words of CNS it is clear that both Navy and Cochin shipyard are working hard so that there is no delay in commissioning.

 

[Dalai Lama]

Freinds any news about IAC-1? What's the status of Our own indigenous Aircraft carrier? can anyone post some images or video realted to IAC-1?

Thanks in advance

regards
Jailer

December 02, 2009, (Sawf News) - Construction of IAC-1 is progressing as scheduled and the ship will be launched in 2010 for induction into the Navy by 2014, the Naval Chief confirmed on Wednesday, December 2.

Speaking to the press ahead of Navy Day on Friday, December 4, Admiral Nirmal Verma said that 10,000 tons of steel has already been cut for the 40,000 ton carrier.

The ship will be launched by October 2010, as per the phase I contract signed by CSL with the Defense Ministry. The phase II of the contract will end with the delivery of the ship to the Navy by the end of 2014.

Work on IAC-2 is expected to start before the first one is delivered to the Navy.

Navy Officials also hinted that the INS Viraat maybe able to serve longer in the Indian Navy after an inspection of its hull in 2013 to assess its residual life.

INS Vikrant / IAC-1 construction on schedule

 

[Kinetic]

Don't know if posted earlier, excellent video on INS Vikramaditya's journey...... Its huge and all most all the equipments are new except the hull, even the hull is heavily revamped....

 

[Gabbar]

The Admiral Gorshkov (Vikramaditya) aircraft carrier is like new | Video | RIA Novosti​

 

[Storm Force]

ITS LOOKING GOOD

16 MIG29K & 10 HELICPTERS 44000 TONNES = 1.5. TIMES LARGER THAN CURRENT INDIAN NAVAL CARRIER

 

[IND151]

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=63306A0FE015CBB1&playnext=1&v=MpptOj2y7aI

 

[Super Falcon]

i have only two word to say for this aquasation as indian audit general also said it india wasted billions of dollars on old rubbish things and russian signed this contract once and keep increasing the money after few developments on aircraft carriers

 

[STAR SCREAM]

i have only two word to say for this aquasation as indian audit general also said it india wasted billions of dollars on old rubbish things and russian signed this contract once and keep increasing the money after few developments on aircraft carriers

error- acquisition not aquasation

 

[Archie]

deleted , given in full detail below

 

[Archie]

i have only two word to say for this aquasation as indian audit general also said it india wasted billions of dollars on old rubbish things and russian signed this contract once and keep increasing the money after few developments on aircraft carriers

well , the CAG even said INS Jalashwa was a bad purchase even though we paid just 52 Million USD for it
As far as Gorkshow is concerned
It was a good deal at its original Price of 974 Million USD and delivery time of 2008 , when india signed athe contract , we were expecting a 21 yr ship to be delivered to us which would replace our only aircraft carrier which would be approaching its 50th birthday
Gorkshow would have served us for 30 yrs , so paying less than 1 Billion USD was considered worth it , when you look at the fact that Many countries like australia have paid more than 1 Billion for a Frigate
But at the time of signing the contract , even the russians didnot know the amount of work needed to make the ship ready for operations
However at 2.3 Billion USD and delivery time of 2012 , it is not such a good deal
Even though 70 % of the ship would be brand New and as per the new contract Russia will replace all the electronics , engine and weapon systems , instead of Repairing any of them


Another thing that needs to be understood is how long will the Indian Navy operate this ship , My guess is that it should be till Yr 2037-38 which was the original plan , However as per recent speeches by naval chief defending the acqusition , he said that the ship will serve for more than 30 yrs , so we can expect retirement time to be around 2043-45


An Interesting Note though , IAC 1 ie INS Vikrant is expected to have a shelf Life of about 40 Yrs , ie it will retire by yr 2055 , while Indian Navy Mig 29 K are expected to be retired in 2040 , though some may remain in service if Vikramaditya is operational Beyond 2040
While Vikrant could shift to 5th gen fighters ie F35B for the final 15-20 Yrs of its life
The Point I want to make is that INS Vikrant will serve for only about 10-15 Yrs more than INS Vikramaditya , even though it would be a brand new ship when it is inducted compared to Vikramaditya which would be 25 Yrs old

My guess is that the only reason Indian Navy decided to sign a new contract for Vikramaditya was becoz it had already paid 700 Million USD towards the ship , and it wanted to have 2 operational carriers by 2015 and the only other option was 01: Purchase a Decommissioning Invincible Class carrier along with 18 Second Hand Harriers which after an upgrade could serve till 2025 ,THIS WOULD HAVE BEEN A LOWCOST ALTERNATIVE COSTING ABOUT 600-700Million USD
02:Purchase of a decomissioned American LHD of the Tarawa Class ,
Spend 500 Million on its Upgrade and Purchase 18-20 Super Hornet to operate from it

 

[sancho]

...But at the time of signing the contract , even the russians didnot know the amount of work needed to make the ship ready for operations
However at 2.3 Billion USD and delivery time of 2012 , it is not such a good deal
Even though 70 % of the ship would be brand New and as per the new contract Russia will replace all the electronics , engine and weapon systems , instead of Repairing any of them

It's not the money that is the problem, but the high delays of delivery, which makes it a bad deal! Not even 2012 is sure now and if we keep in mind that Gorshkov was meant only as a stop gap to replace Virrat as soon as possible and till IAC1 will be ready, it really gets useless now.

While Vikrant could shift to 5th gen fighters ie F35B for the final 15-20 Yrs of its life

Mig 29Ks and N-LCAs will serve for up to 40 years too and besides that it wouldn't make sense to buy F35 for half of it's lifespan.

02:Purchase of a decomissioned American LHD of the Tarawa Class ,
Spend 500 Million on its Upgrade and Purchase 18-20 Super Hornet to operate from it

How? No catapults, no arrsted landing.

 

[alam.saquiba]

well , the CAG even said INS Jalashwa was a bad purchase even though we paid just 52 Million USD for it
As far as Gorkshow is concerned
It was a good deal at its original Price of 974 Million USD and delivery time of 2008 , when india signed athe contract , we were expecting a 21 yr ship to be delivered to us which would replace our only aircraft carrier which would be approaching its 50th birthday
Gorkshow would have served us for 30 yrs , so paying less than 1 Billion USD was considered worth it , when you look at the fact that Many countries like australia have paid more than 1 Billion for a Frigate
But at the time of signing the contract , even the russians didnot know the amount of work needed to make the ship ready for operations
However at 2.3 Billion USD and delivery time of 2012 , it is not such a good deal
Even though 70 % of the ship would be brand New and as per the new contract Russia will replace all the electronics , engine and weapon systems , instead of Repairing any of them

I agree with your Most of the Part.. I would like to add some thing....
1. USA mounted Pressure on Russia to deny Ship grade Steel Delivery, and surprisingly India Start making that steel (SAIL-steel authority of India limited).
2. Arihant tells another story.
3. fast growth of Indian ship building Industry??

Don't you smell something fishy.. I strongly feel (though I don have any proof) that the money for great Vikadi is re-routed to some other project ToT also... By the way, Its a great deal... Vikadi can save Indian Growing power for 3 decades...

 

[Archie]

sancho;1366319]It's not the money that is the problem, but the high delays of delivery, which makes it a bad deal! Not even 2012 is sure now and if we keep in mind that Gorshkov was meant only as a stop gap to replace Virrat as soon as possible and till IAC1 will be ready, it really gets useless now.
What u have said is not exactly logical , u dont spend 2.3 Billion USD on something which u intend to use for only 7-8 yrs , If thats the case then Indian Govt should have Purchased HMS Invincible in 2005 which was operationl at time of retirement and GOI would have got it for 400 Million USD including Refurbishment and Upgrades , WE COULD ALSO HAVE BOUGHT 8-10 Second Hand Harriers along with it.
This ship would have served us well till 2020 along with 18 Harriers , and we could replace it with IAC2 by 2020
Dont tell me that GOI had no problem with Russia Increasing the Price by 150%
Do u know who has to eventually pay for this increase , common Tax payers like Me or if u are employed then u too
Yes I am part funding the purchase of Gorkshow , and i want my money's worth


Mig 29Ks and N-LCAs will serve for up to 40 years too and besides that it wouldn't make sense to buy F35 for half of it's lifespan.
British Queen Elisabeth Class has a life span of 50 Yrs and Royal navy Intends to operate 6th gen Fighters from t starting 2040 ie they will use newer gen fihters for 20 yrs of its lifeDude , Indian Air force Last year said that they would begin gradual phase out of first 100 Su30MKI starting 2030-32 and ending in 2040, while Remaining 160 Su30MKI would undergo a second upg in 2025 and would carry on till 2045
Air force will begin retiring its Mig29smt from 2025 and its its Mirages from 2027 if they are upgraded otherwise they would be scraped by 2022
The only 4.5 Gen Aircraft which would be operational till 2050 would be the mmrca winner and that too if it is Rafale or Typhoon
By the way do u think that Mig29k and NLCA are better than Su30mki
Answer is no , so if that aircraft would be retired by 2045 , how can u say that we will operate NLCA and Mig29k till 2050
Do u know what 2050 Means , it means that if this was to happen , then India would have operated 4th and 4.5 Gen fighters for 64 yrs , which is a longer period than 47 Yrs which India is supose to operate 3rd and 3.5 Gen fighters

As far as Lca is concerned , Airforce would scrap them after 25 yrs in service Unless HAL develops an LCA MK3 which has 5500 Kg payload , supercruise with 2D Thrust vectoring and RCS of Under 1

How? No catapults, no arrsted landing.[/quote]

Well Tarawa Class LHD weighs 40000 ton, has a Ski Jump ,while arrester cables can be added or India can simply purchase 22 F35B, Capability to carry 2000 Marines along with 30 aircrafts in Amphibious Assault role and 35 Aircraft in Carrier role
The only Downside is that these ships were commissioned Between 1977-80 , hence are 7-10yrs older than Gorkshow , while still being Younger than OHP being acquired by pak
3 of these ships have been retired ,2 are in storage with one sunk as target, while 2 ships Inducted in 1980 remain in service , to be retired in 2013 and 2015
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarawa_class_amphibious_assault_ship
Even the Wasp Class is getting ready for phase out by 2015 to be replaced by America Class
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Wasp_(LHD-1)
We could have opted for Tarawa class and US would have agreed considering that they were willing to sell USS Kitty Hawk aircraft carrier and have sold us INS Jalashwa and also offered a second LPD of this class
Also note that F35B AND F35C are participating in Naval MRCA and are most likely to win Unless IAF choses Rafale or Super Hornet for mmrca and MOD decides on commanality
F35B can operate from Tarawa , Wasp , Vikrant
I will continue with my rant that F35B will operate from Vikrant whether in 2030 or 2040becoz IAC2, will definitely operate 5th gen fighters in future whether in 2020 or in 2040
Considering the fact that IAF recently signed a deal for 250 FGFA

 

[sancho]

What u have said is not exactly logical , u dont spend 2.3 Billion USD on something which u intend to use for only 7-8 yrs ...

Who said they intend to use it only for 7-8 years? The Gorshkov had still 10 - 20 years of life left and with this major refurbishment, even more, which means it can be in service long enough for the Mig 29Ks. Moreover, the carrier was intended as a bridge to replace the INS Viraat as soon as possible, but also to train pilots and crews for bigger carriers, with arrested landing. Gorshkov initially was expected in 2008, while IAC1 should come in 2014/15 only, so enough time to gain experience.
The HMS Invincible would not be useful for this purpuse, not to mention that VTOL fighters are less capable than a Mig 29K for example. So to go for the Gorshkov was indeed the right choice and even the higher costs would have been worth it, if it came in time, but it didn't and that's the main reason that makes it a bad deal now

Dude , Indian Air force Last year said that they would begin gradual phase out of first 100 Su30MKI starting 2030-32 and ending in 2040, while Remaining 160 Su30MKI would undergo a second upg in 2025 and would carry on till 2045...

Not sure what exactly is your point here, but just calculate the service life and you will see that these fighter aircrafts are intended for 30 to 40 years. First MKIs was inducted in 2002, so 2032 means 30 years of service. Mirage 2000s were inducted since 1985 and now will be upgraded till 2025 at max, so 40 years at max.
The Mig 29Ks, that are in service now will remain in service till 2041 at least, but just like all fighters they be upgraded of course, to make them capable enough.

Well Tarawa Class LHD weighs 40000 ton, has a Ski Jump ,while arrester cables can be added or India can simply purchase 22 F35B,

First of all, they don't have a ski jump, because US carriers don't use them. Secondly, adding arrested landing capability is what we did with the Gorshkov too and what is the reason for this major redesign of the carrier. The Gorshkov was a helicopter carrier like the Tarawa class too and carried Russian helicopter and VTOL fighters.
As you can see, using F18s like you said is not possible and F35 will only arrive around 2015 (if at all), but we were searching for a carrier that can be inducted in 2008, so they isn't a point either.

 

[Archie]

Who said they intend to use it only for 7-8 years? The Gorshkov had still 10 - 20 years of life left and with this major refurbishment, even more, which means it can be in service long enough for the Mig 29Ks. Moreover, the carrier was intended as a bridge to replace the INS Viraat as soon as possible, but also to train pilots and crews for bigger carriers, with arrested landing. Gorshkov initially was expected in 2008, while IAC1 should come in 2014/15 only, so enough time to gain experience.
The HMS Invincible would not be useful for this purpuse, not to mention that VTOL fighters are less capable than a Mig 29K for example. So to go for the Gorshkov was indeed the right choice and even the higher costs would have been worth it, if it came in time, but it didn't and that's the main reason that makes it a bad deal now




Not sure what exactly is your point here, but just calculate the service life and you will see that these fighter aircrafts are intended for 30 to 40 years. First MKIs was inducted in 2002, so 2032 means 30 years of service. Mirage 2000s were inducted since 1985 and now will be upgraded till 2025 at max, so 40 years at max.
The Mig 29Ks, that are in service now will remain in service till 2041 at least, but just like all fighters they be upgraded of course, to make them capable enough.





First of all, they don't have a ski jump, because US carriers don't use them. Secondly, adding arrested landing capability is what we did with the Gorshkov too and what is the reason for this major redesign of the carrier. The Gorshkov was a helicopter carrier like the Tarawa class too and carried Russian helicopter and VTOL fighters.
As you can see, using F18s like you said is not possible and F35 will only arrive around 2015 (if at all), but we were searching for a carrier that can be inducted in 2008, so they isn't a point either.

Read the quote below
An Interesting Note though , IAC 1 ie INS Vikrant is expected to have a shelf Life of about 40 Yrs , ie it will retire by yr 2055 , while Indian Navy Mig 29 K are expected to be retired in 2040 , though some may remain in service if Vikramaditya is operational Beyond 2040
While Vikrant could shift to 5th gen fighters ie F35B for the final 15-20 Yrs of its life

I did say that Mig29k will remain in service till 2040 ie for 30 yrs , while some may remain in service till Vikramaditya is operational ie upto 2043-45 , now i am assuming that they will be from second batch of Mig29k delivered starting 2012.
So mig29k will have a service life of 30 yrs
The only reason why Mirage 2000 and Mig29smt of IAF will be operational till 2025 , becoz after upg these aircraft will still be considered capable till 2025-30 , but not in 2040

Do u know USAF recently retired some of there F15E after 28 yrs in service , while some of our brotheren on this forum were jumping up and down saying that we should ask US for them
Now my point is that n 2010 , 28yr old F15SE do not have value for USAF , but 24 yr Mig29s have value for us , becoz today they are more than capable for our area of operation

Let me tell u another thing , our dear friends in PAF intend to operate there older F16 TILL 2030 while there newer F16BLK52 might remain in service till 2050 ,
I can assure u that these guys will try to get there hands on 25 yr old F16 which would be retiring from NATO forces when F35A enters service
so maybe for them f16 might still be valuable till 2040 , but for other countries it will seize to be useful beyond 2025-30


As far as Tarawa and Wasp Class Is concerned , I have one question for u , How do u think Marine Corps 200 Harrier Jump Jet take off
and How do u think F35B will take off from America class LHD
As far as F/A18 Super hornet taking off is concerned , well Boing did simulate the takeoff on Gorshkov and Vikrant
U Know the navies RFI actually asked for carrier borne aircraft capable of launching using catapult , while Boing responded by saying that Super hornet can takeoff from both Gorksov and vikant apart from the proposed IAC2