India watching China's military growth: IAF Chief

[cloneman]

Purely OT on this... we can argue by opening a new thread what you say?? can we??

No need.You need to offer two links,to back your points (I directll quote what you said)
1.dont you guys keep a watch on Taiwan For this you need to offer a link that the PLA high rank officers claim to keep watching Taiwan"s military development.
2.when you can compare your stealth j-xx with raptor and Pak-fa why not we?
You can directlly quote my words to see which part did I ever compare JXX with F22 or T50.

If you cant prove anything,then you are just a normal Indian basher,which your country is full of.

 

[mike05]

Not necessarily... If your local product is flawed or found to be less competent then .. how much ever you produce locally it is not going with stand... this applies to all the products even defence....

Everything boils down to price, there is a reason why countries buy cheap products instead of more competent expensive products simply because its cheaper.

growth lies differently... economy or growth cannot be viewed in one angle only...it is a multi dimension.. multi impact factors... for (e.g.) if you own a company your profit is calculated like how effectively you spend the resource and how much profit you earn... Some time you earn good profit by spending on foreign stuff... for (e.g.) if you have a local machine which does a job in 10 hours and you spent so much of amount and resource to do the same job then you need to compare the same with foreign goods.. At the end of the life cycle of the product you calculate which has earned more profit and you go for it... a small portion of business will have such angle... then think of economy.. think of growth.. it is beyond lot of peoples level... including me .. samjee ...

This theory does not work with regards to defense, weapons bought do not churn out more profit though foreign equipment being superior technologically to what is built in China does provide better defense capabilities. But these are equipment which allows the host nation to exercise control over the countries they supply them to. Weapons manufacturing is built upon mistakes and experience which has lead to what is being crafted today, China is just going thru this phase and is fast reaching the ability to manufacture broad scale Russian equivalent weaponry. Ultimately no superpower will allow their weapons supply to be dependent on another country.

 

[mike05]

I am sorry to be rude here but your points are utterly foolish

1. Who in the world told you that Democracy is the best form of governent?. The word democracy was invented by the Americans inorder to exert their control over other nations by Exporting democracy.

The earlier periods during Monarchy, Communism have all been Dictatorships and all have been superpowers.

Sorry but this notion of Democracy = PROGRESS + Development is uttetly flawed to say the least.

Nice to see that we aren't all blinded by this "democracy"chant.

 

[kingdurgaking]

Everything boils down to price, there is a reason why countries buy cheap products instead of more competent expensive products simply because its cheaper.

Wrong cheap products doesnt need to be of less quality... if you buy products of less quality it is your fault... as a nation or a business men you will never end up doing this.. ultimately you will end up bankrupttttt.... A product costing cheap will have lot of underlying reason... and i never talked about cheap but about flawed or less quality product... Cheap quality products actually is good for country economy and all the business is competing only for these two things...

This theory does not work with regards to defense, weapons bought do not churn out more profit though foreign equipment being superior technologically to what is built in China does provide better defense capabilities. But these are equipment which allows the host nation to exercise control over the countries they supply them to. Weapons manufacturing is built upon mistakes and experience which has lead to what is being crafted today, China is just going thru this phase and is fast reaching the ability to manufacture broad scale Russian equivalent weaponry. Ultimately no superpower will allow their weapons supply to be dependent on another country.

This theory works for everything even for defence... Consider you produce engine of less quality (e.g.) huge smoke, more fuel consumption, less mileage or what ever... you can have adverse effect in loosing a lot... more sorties means more maintenance cost you will end the war quicker without having any resource to fight... Flawed or low quality products ....

Secondly lets see the other angle by money... if you can save money by importing engines with the above features on positive note than your local engine... then?? If you choose your local product for the above and if you end up spending more money you will not be recognized for future deals ... Some countries encourage local product for pride.. they do some sacrifice on some of the assumption...

promise to reduce the cost by reducing the training (incase of aircraft engine)... because you cant justify a budget if you are really concerned on economy....
No event of war in sight to risk .. plus plus lot of reasons....

 

[prototype]

After doing a research on IAF, it seems to me that IAF is more sophisticated than IA.

If any war breaks out, how much the IAF can penetrate into China is what I am curious to know. Can they reach as far as Xian? Obviously, Beijing will be their ultimate target, not Chengdu...

No trolling here. Please.

well a lot of factors r involved here,sure not only Su-30mki but also Mirage-2000 mk2 and Mig-29 can penetrate deep into Chinese land and move to their high profile targets.

But neutralizing the entire Chinese SAM batteries is not an easy particularly which is so high in number so therefore i conclude reaching Beijing is virtually impossible

On the other hand number matters a lot,Chinese airforce is 3 times bigger than IAF,moreover if have some of top class fighter's mentioned above,then we also have platforms which r obsolete like MIG-21 and MIG-27

Moreover we r also facing force depletion,though it is not a long term problem,we have our money invested in atleast 3 different fighter programmes and lot of other purchases which include strategic airlifters,AEW platforms and mid air refullers

Anyway PLAAF is also one of the dedicated and strong air force so in future also i think Indian planes intruding deep into china is not a possibility

But in future,if any kind of conflict arises,the war is not going to happen above the skies of Beijing or Delhi,the war will b b limited ,fast and will b only fought in the border areas

 

[bhasinusc]

well a lot of factors r involved here,sure not only Su-30mki but also Mirage-2000 mk2 and Mig-29 can penetrate deep into Chinese land and move to their high profile targets.

But neutralizing the entire Chinese SAM batteries is not an easy particularly which is so high in number so therefore i conclude reaching Beijing is virtually impossible

On the other hand number matters a lot,Chinese airforce is 3 times bigger than IAF,moreover if have some of top class fighter's mentioned above,then we also have platforms which r obsolete like MIG-21 and MIG-27

Moreover we r also facing force depletion,though it is not a long term problem,we have our money invested in atleast 3 different fighter programmes and lot of other purchases which include strategic airlifters,AEW platforms and mid air refullers

Anyway PLAAF is also one of the dedicated and strong air force so in future also i think Indian planes intruding deep into china is not a possibility

But in future,if any kind of conflict arises,the war is not going to happen above the skies of Beijing or Delhi,the war will b b limited ,fast and will b only fought in the border areas

I think we need to try our best to avoid a Sino-Indian conflict cause that will be hugely disastrous to us to say the least. I will try to list many points here which are actually ground realities:-

1. The foremost and most important point, You mentioned that any future war will be fought on the border areas. I think you are mistaken between a skirmish and a war. Sure Skirmish is in border area like 1962 India-china skirmish but a war is by definition not restricted to border area.

Future war most likely will be fought over in:
a. Nuclear way - Using Missiles, aircraft(highly unlikely), SBM, Satellite Nuclear attack
b. Cyber and technology warfare

I think in both counts a. and b. China is far - far - far ahead of India. Its number of nuclear warheads count more than 4000 (at least) while Indias nuclear warheads is between 50 - 100.
Second disadvantage for India is that India is 3 times more densely populated than China and India is 3 times smaller than China. So China is far more capable to surviving a nuclear strike than India.

In terms of Satellite technology, again china is miles ahead. In terms of Cyber warefare China has amazing progress in IT, High tech software etc(China has its own Facebook, Google etc) while India is merely a back water Outsourcing gaint with Infosys and others offering only "Software services" and no high tech R&D.


2. In terms of number of Aircraft, again the count of number of MIGS, Sukhois, F-15,F-16 does not matter because even if you have 2000+ planes they can be wiped out in a single day of airstrike ...WHAT really matters are 2 things:-

a. Indigenous technology to produce Aircraft quickly. I think again here China beats India a long way. China already has manufactured 5th generation stealth fighters while Indias LCA (3/4th generation) having 80% of western components is a mega failure .

b. Manufacturing capibility- again I need not discuss this as I have already said that it is not worth comparing.


The problem with we Indians is that we grossly over estimate our capabilities with the media and US western media shouting "India superpower" etc.........There is no frank assesement of ground realities among the Indians.

At Best we are a small regional power and at worst we are not even a power to reckon with anywhere.

I know most Indians will not agree with me.....anyway let the comments come.

 

[prototype]

1. The foremost and most important point, You mentioned that any future war will be fought on the border areas. I think you are mistaken between a skirmish and a war. Sure Skirmish is in border area like 1962 India-china skirmish but a war is by definition not restricted to border area.

Future war most likely will be fought over in:
a. Nuclear way - Using Missiles, aircraft(highly unlikely), SBM, Satellite Nuclear attack
b. Cyber and technology warfare

friend the strategies have changed and so the technologies,Both India and china r not going to fight a full blown war under the nuclear cloud,though both of them have a second strike policy,but it is to b seen if they really stick to that in a full scale warfare

The war in future will b not for complete obliteration of each other,but for achieving tactical and strategic gain's and then bring the opposite party to the negotiation table

as soon as the initial gains r achieved the winner will call for ceasefire,Chinese objectives is to take over Arunachal within 96 hrs,and Indian is to damage their forces inside Tibet within same time,China had fielded around 10 rapid strike formations close to Tibet border if some reports r to believed in,and India is to raising the same

Lets presume if china went on a full scale war with India and win it,how better the war fought by China,how better it may b planned that will still have devastating consequences on its economy and military and the time China racing for World super power status will least like that to happen,the same with India

So any future confrontation between India and China is not going to b a full scale warfare but a limited one stretching not more than 3-5 days

 

[justanobserver]

I think in both counts a. and b. China is far - far - far ahead of India. Its number of nuclear warheads count more than 4000 (at least) while Indias nuclear warheads is between 50 - 100.

Dude wtf are you smoking, China has ~300nukes

China already has manufactured 5th generation stealth fighter

At Best we are a small regional power and at worst we are not even a power to reckon with anywhere.

Are you for real?

 

[prototype]

I think in both counts a. and b. China is far - far - far ahead of India. Its number of nuclear warheads count more than 4000 (at least) while Indias nuclear warheads is between 50 - 100.
Second disadvantage for India is that India is 3 times more densely populated than China and India is 3 times smaller than China. So China is far more capable to surviving a nuclear strike than India.

See an all out nuclear war is not a solution for any country that will in progression,never beleive a nuclear war between India and china is going to happen,both r not that naive,and in regards with the numbers,our warheads count r strictly confidential and so is Chinese,these numbers r not at all real,this is only an assumed figure,some sources had already claimed that Indian numbers can b as high as 400

In terms of Satellite technology, again china is miles ahead. In terms of Cyber warefare China has amazing progress in IT, High tech software etc(China has its own Facebook, Google etc) while India is merely a back water Outsourcing gaint with Infosys and others offering only "Software services" and no high tech R&D.

China may b ahead in satellite but as far as I think we r not that behind,we have military satellites that have resolution of as much as 60 meters,we have a big array of remote sensing satellites,the only thing that china possess and we dont i believe is anti sat tech

2. In terms of number of Aircraft, again the count of number of MIGS, Sukhois, F-15,F-16 does not matter because even if you have 2000+ planes they can be wiped out in a single day of airstrike ...WHAT really matters are 2 things:-

a. Indigenous technology to produce Aircraft quickly. I think again here China beats India a long way. China already has manufactured 5th generation stealth fighters while Indias LCA (3/4th generation) having 80% of western components is a mega failure .

b. Manufacturing capibility- again I need not discuss this as I have already said that it is not worth comparing.

See we r on path of our 4th gen fighter and by 2014 we will achive it,we had already produced mk1 versions of tejas but we r going for MK-2 because of high standards set up by our airforce and u r vastly undermining our military industrial complex,sure we r little back in ingeniousness tech but we have a big production line here and can churn out in a big speed if required

Which Chinese 5th gen r u talking about,r u kidding,their best plane J-10 is only comparable to f-16 or mirage 2000,in the name of 5th gen we only have some reports about some fighter called J-xx in development and that too is atleast 1 decade away(atleast)

 

[justanobserver]

our warheads count r strictly confidential and so is Chinese,these numbers r not at all real,this is only an assumed figure,some sources had already claimed that Indian numbers can b as high as 400

China doesn't have huge stockpiles of nukes, her nukes are defensive, done to counteract the erstwhile USSR and USA. They are not for first strike, only the USA and Russia can do that.

btw this guys seemed sane, but he's now gone completely cuckoo

 

[somebozo]

Without matching Chinas economic growth this seems to be a far fetched idea..in other words simply translates to more desperate poor and toilet-less indians and their economic invasion of middle east at 1/3 wages.

 

[prototype]

Without matching Chinas economic growth this seems to be a far fetched idea..in other words simply translates to more desperate poor and toilet-less indians and their economic invasion of middle east at 1/3 wages.

For ur knowledge middle is invaded more by Pakistanis than Indian's for 1/5 wage,by the way IMF and american's r paying u a huge aid to build toilets,then why u people go to middle east for $hiting

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

China doesn't have huge stockpiles of nukes, her nukes are defensive, done to counteract the erstwhile USSR and USA. They are not for first strike, only the USA and Russia can do that.

btw this guys seemed sane, but he's now gone completely cuckoo

That's right, China's nuclear stockpile is not geared towards a first-strike.

China's nuclear policy is "No First Use". I think India has a similar policy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_first_use

 

[Super Falcon]

well even if no nuke war india will never gonna win against chinese and even china are watching india too as indians watching them difference is chinese are very clever when they bring some new weapons that chinese always wanted the weapon tech to be given to china they buy tech of a weapon and at other hand india buys weapons and its maintannance as they have limited number of that weapon but china can buy how many at anytime they want no limits

 

[TheWarriorIndian]

JF17 is a matured fighter and is in massive production.Compare jf17 with LCA which is not operational is not suitable.Let along what ever MRA,FGFA which are on paper.

Would U please turn back a few Pages Behind and See who Dragged it Before Giving Me Lessons???