India wary as Pakistan pushes for lend-lease plan for arms with US

[sallukhan]

NEW DELHI: Can Pakistan persuade the US to revive its famous World War II "lend-lease" programme to assist Pakistan's army access sophisticated

weaponry?

According to sources, the beleaguered Pakistan president Asif Zardari is looking for ways to make himself more attractive to an increasingly hostile and powerful army, which he apparently believes is out to oust him from his position.

India has alerted the US to a move by Zardari's business cronies and some lobbyists to ask the Pentagon to sanction a unique "lend-lease" facility for military equipment for Pakistan army. This would be quite apart from the counter-insurgency equipment that the US already gives to Pakistan, which includes helicopters, night vision goggles etc.

In the backdrop of recent US reports that Pakistan is diverting US military aid to target India, the new attempts are significant, sources said.

The last time the US did a "lend-lease" programme, it was World War II and it supplied the UK, China, France and even Soviet Union with "war materials" between 1941 and 1945. The UK repaid the last of its debts on this score only by 2006.

For a US willing to "reward" Pakistan for a good job done, this could be tempting. If the US agrees — though there are no signs yet that it might — it would be unprecedented, said diplomatic sources, monitoring developments between US and Pakistan, but India would have serious concerns.

India has asked the US to monitor military aid to Pakistan, particularly since Pakistan has used US counter-terror aid to buy conventional military equipment against India.

Between 2002 and 2008, these include P-3C Orion maritime patrol aircraft, about 5,250 TOW anti-armour missiles, six AN/TPS-77 surveillance radars, six C-130E transport aircraft and 20 AH-1F Cobra attack helicopters, as well as F-16 armaments including AMRAAM air-to-air missiles and 2,000-pound bombs, Harpoon anti-ship missiles and Sidewinder air-to-air missiles, among other things.

The reason for the new arms wishlist from the US is rooted in the grime of Pakistani domestic politics. For the past few months, there appears to have been a campaign to cut out Zardari from the Pakistani political scene. PPP politicians have gone on record to express fears of a "minus-one" policy being worked out — to remove Zardari from office by focusing on his corrupt ways and and endemic corruption in the government.

Fauzia Wahab, Zardari's aide and PPP spokesperson, was quoted as saying, "The objective behind the campaign, launched by different elements, political and others, is to target and malign one man to get him dislodged... It was after our in-house, in-depth discussions, participated in by the President, that we reached a consensus that a premeditated move was underway to manage the exit of Zardari," she said.

While the political party has officially rallied around the president, and prime minister Gilani too appears to have resisted temptation, the move has prompted Zardari to look at options to make himself more attractive to the army.

And presumably the best way of feeding the beast is by being a facilitator for arms supplies from Pakistan's most willing supplier, the US. Helped by his lobbyists and business cronies in the US, Zardari, said sources in Washington, is planning to ask Washington to "lend" sophisticated military equipment. The only intended target is India.

India wary as Pakistan pushes for lend-lease plan for arms with US - India - NEWS - The Times of India

 

[Machoman]

What I don't understand is "India salde kay qun pait may darad hota hai". India by himself buying weapon from all over the world with no problem but as soon something Pakistan start buying. In sadloo ko Dust Lag jatai hain.

 

[Spitfighter]

What I don't understand is "India salde kay qun pait may darad hota hai". India by himself buying weapon from all over the world with no problem but as soon something Pakistan start buying. In sadloo ko Dust Lag jatai hain.

Well Pakistan would use the weapons against us if a war was to ever break out. Therefore India does all it can to stop arms sales to Pakistan. Pakistan has tried to do the same to India.

 

[Machoman]

Well but India does ***** 100 more then Pakistan for sure

 

[Beskar]

Well Pakistan would use the weapons against us if a war was to ever break out. Therefore India does all it can to stop arms sales to Pakistan. Pakistan has tried to do the same to India.

That's an utterly stupid reason for India to bi+ch and moan. Whenever there's a hint of some procurement by Pakistan, we hear the same old anthem from India.

We're both nuclear armed nations and in case of an all out war it wouldn't matter how much conventional weapons we have simply because India has always been ahead of us in numbers when it comes to conventional weapons. It's not like India's been sitting idle when the reality is that India's the one starting an arms race in the region by procuring sophisticated weaponry.

Turning a deaf ear to India's unreasonable and illogical cries is probably the best solution to this problem. Which we're actually quite good at.

 

[araz]

Well Pakistan would use the weapons against us if a war was to ever break out. Therefore India does all it can to stop arms sales to Pakistan. Pakistan has tried to do the same to India.

My frioend
In this environment after a couple of days there would be a nuclear exchange assured. How much damage would those few things cause you. You should be thankful for anything that comes Pakistans way, because the more insecure we are the more likely the nuclear threshold will be reached . It would be disastrous for both of us. So do you now get the drift?
Araz

 

[Spitfighter]

That's an utterly stupid reason for India to bi+ch and moan. Whenever there's a hint of some procurement by Pakistan, we hear the same old anthem from India.

We're both nuclear armed nations and in case of an all out war it wouldn't matter how much conventional weapons we have simply because India has always been ahead of us in numbers when it comes to conventional weapons. It's not like India's been sitting idle when the reality is that India's the one starting an arms race in the region by procuring sophisticated weaponry.

Turning a deaf ear to India's unreasonable and illogical cries is probably the best solution to this problem. Which we're actually quite good at.

What, you're saying India shouldn't do what it can to stop Pakistan from procuring weapons that it intends to use against us? Why not?

There's actually nothing stupid about it, can you give me one good reason why India shouldn't impede weapons sales to Pakistan?

Pakistan can follow suit, it should use whatever influence it has to stop/delay our weapons programs, or alternatively it could turn a deaf ear. You could call it moaning or b!tching or whatever you like, but it works in India's favor, and that's all that matters.

Pakistan's nuclear doctrine, like India's, is based on deterrence. Therefore the idea is to make a) nuclear war not worthwhile and b) maintain territorial integrity. i.e it follows logically, that once you pull the nuclear trigger, you've lost the war, because the subsequent response will be overwhelming and devastating. (Nuclear war and nuclear deterrence are completely different doctrines)

Thus the 'bravado factor' of nuclear weapons has been effectively negated, i.e nuclear power or not, nuclear weapons cannot prevent a conventional war, think about it, India follows a no first use doctrine for a reason.

India intends to maintain its lead by any and all means necessary. simple.

 

[Spitfighter]

My frioend
In this environment after a couple of days there would be a nuclear exchange assured. How much damage would those few things cause you. You should be thankful for anything that comes Pakistans way, because the more insecure we are the more likely the nuclear threshold will be reached . It would be disastrous for both of us. So do you now get the drift?
Araz

That kind of thinking might help you sleep better at night, but when your nuclear doctrine is based on deterrence and not nuclear war fighting, the logic is completely different.

What do you think will happen after Pakistan fires all its nukes? and how will it benefit Pakistan?

The talk of a 'low threshold' is nonsense, nuclear weapons are a game changer, regardless of the 'bravado factor', once both countries have them it makes nuclear war that much more unlikely. A conventional war cannot be prevented with nuclear weapons, all they can do is prevent it from escalating beyond control.

Your premise is flawed, think about why Pakistan has nuclear weapons in the first place.

The Soviets and Americans had thousands of nukes, the Americans were far stronger, read about the Cuban missile crisis. Nukes aren't halwa.

 

[graphican]

Indian's enmity against Pakistan is not depicted when India develops some weapon, it is exposed when it tries to deprive Pakistan from defending itself. This is the same devilish philosophy Israel has who believes it has every right to defend itself but rest of the world specially Iran is a grass-eating goat who should have no right to defend (not retaliate but defend) their national interests and pride land.

@ Spitfighter;
And you guys still think it was Quaid-e-Azam who broke India? Pundit Nehru was not the only man with this hatred filled heart but you are representing the same ideology even today. Persuading that, Pundit broke India.. what are you prepared to sacrifice this time?

 

[Su 30mki]

Indian's enmity against Pakistan is not depicted when India develops some weapon, it is exposed when it tries to deprive Pakistan from defending itself. This is the same devilish philosophy Israel has who believes it has every right to defend itself but rest of the world specially Iran is a grass-eating goat who should have no right to defend (not retaliate but defend) their national interests and pride land.

@ Spitfighter;
And you guys still think it was Quaid-e-Azam who broke India? Pundit Nehru was not the only man with this hatred filled heart but you are representing the same ideology even today. Persuading that, Pundit broke India.. what are you prepared to sacrifice this time?

for you Information, its Iran who said Israel should be wiped out from map and not Israel who said about anything on Iran.

Its Iran who building Bombs to carry out this dream, and uses Hizbolla as a pawn, So you except Israel to sleep.

 

[bones20]

well, I dont want to sound like a spoilt sport (yes arms race is fun) but its foolish to buy arms on loans considering that your enemy(presumably) is an elephant which just doesnt have the offensive pysche.

 

[Saint N sinnerr]

That's an utterly stupid reason for India to bi+ch and moan. Whenever there's a hint of some procurement by Pakistan, we hear the same old anthem from India.

We're both nuclear armed nations and in case of an all out war it wouldn't matter how much conventional weapons we have simply because India has always been ahead of us in numbers when it comes to conventional weapons. It's not like India's been sitting idle when the reality is that India's the one starting an arms race in the region by procuring sophisticated weaponry
Turning a deaf ear to India's unreasonable and illogical cries is probably the best solution to this problem. Which we're actually quite good at.

Yeah?? its a stupid reason????
what happened when Indo-US N. deal was about to shape up?? did pakistan and china did not tried their butt effort to NOT let it happen??? was it not stupid and childish of both the countries???

theres a kahawat in Hindi, hope U lll get it..
"agar boya boota babool ka , to aam kahan se hoyein???"

 

[maverick2009]

Storm in a Tea Cup.

Its hardly likely that the USA will give little more than a handfull of helicopters transports planes etc.

NOW a couple Sqds of JSF F35 thats a different matter

 

[muse]

Ok yes, a couple of squadrons would bring the Indian to their collective knees --- Perhaps we should look at the kind of structural change and the kinds of coordination such relationships (len/lease) create, as the substance of concern for Indian planners. 2 squadrons of whatever cannot do anything substantive.