India wants second line of fighter jets: Report

[Abingdonboy]

IAF will not buy a new fighter without the source codes and America are notoriously shifty in this. Even they first never allowed UK to obtain it for the F-35 until they eventually did so what chance we have?

Anyone who honestly thought the non-NATO, non-aligned India with minimal institutional ties with the US was going to be granted full ToT on sensitive tech on the AESA radars or any other critical area were 100% delusional. The US won't even export the F-22 to their closest allies and, as you have rightly pointed out, the tiered structure of the F-35 project means that the US's "best friends" are inhernetly excluded from any meaningful industrial partnership.

 

[Gen Padmanabhan]

So you think it's more a negotiation tactic? Makes sense... it would give us leverage in reducing the price which we done.

IAF will not buy a new fighter without the source codes and America are notoriously shifty in this. Even they first never allowed UK to obtain it for the F-35 until they eventually did so what chance we have?

Not negotiation tactics. It was just news crap. You think negotiations depend on news crap?

SecDef came here for much bigger issues.

 

[Abingdonboy]

I wonder how will Rafale square out against Chengdu J-20s. I pray that these are enough for 500+ fifth gen LO J-20. MKIs will have their hands full with Chinese Flankers.

@Taygibay

The J-20 is a 5th gen plane only in the minds of the delusional fanboys. To expect China to have overtaken France is beyond absurd.

The Rafales will have the J-20/31 for breakfast.


@Vauban @Picdelamirand-oil

300 LCA
200+ Rafale
300+ MKI
200+ FGFA (long term)
300+ AMCA (long term)

This will be the best airforce in Asia.

 

[Oracle 33]

I know it bro, look at the sequence of events (F-18 offer said to be taken seriously, SECDEF visits, no deals/agreements signed, SECDEF leaves) and the outcome (a few days later the Rafale deal enters final stages and the cost issues is said to be addressed)and the GoI/BJP chest thumping about how much money they have saved the people of India).

We must keep the Americans thinking they still have a foot in the door as it will help with further orders for the Rafale. If the french think they are the only vendor they will stick to their guns and not move on the price.

Our defence minister is a smart guy I think he is playing chess!

 

[Abingdonboy]

We must keep the Americans thinking they still have a foot in the door as it will help with further orders for the Rafale. If the french think they are the only vendor they will stick to their guns and not move on the price.

Our defence minister is a smart guy I think he is playing chess!

Now the deal is done, the die is cast and it is important to take full advantedge of the French offers. France has been chosen (with good reason) as India's strategic partner, leverage the Rafale deal for bigger and better things (UCAVs, SSBN, ACs etc etc etc)

 

[Oracle 33]

Not negotiation tactics. It was just news crap. You think negotiations depend on news crap?

SecDef came here for much bigger issues.

You don't get it to you?

If I have more than 1 vendor whom I can talk with it gives more room for price movement as the French know the yanks are still in the door. This is smart business.

Now the deal is done, the die is cast and it is important to take full advantedge of the French offers. France has been chosen (with good reason) as India's strategic partner, leverage the Rafale deal for bigger and better things (UCAVs, SSBN, ACs etc etc etc)

French and India always wanted a multi polor world, they stuck by us in kargil and when we conducted a nuke test. I see this relationship going further and some joint defence projects.

 

[Gen Padmanabhan]

You don't get it to you?

If I have more than 1 vendor whom I can talk with it gives more room for price movement as the French know the yanks are still in the door. This is smart business.



French and India always wanted a multi polor world, they stuck by us in kargil and when we conducted a nuke test. I see this relationship going further and some joint defence projects.

More than 1 vendor? But we already selected Rafale from more than 1 vendor. There is no logical sense to going back to that process again.

 

[Oracle 33]

@Abingdonboy why did we go for the Israeli head mounted system instead of the French? Is it superior and more cost effective?

More than 1 vendor? But we already selected Rafale from more than 1 vendor. There is no logical sense to going back to that process again.

We selected 36 Rafales not a further order? We are not going back on any process but having more than 1 vendor helps with further orders. This is smart business I see the logic in him doing this.

See if i go to a car showroom i know the car I want which is a Mercedes new E class but I can say look I am looking also at Audi and BMW and will select based on best deal (although I already know i want the merc umm Rafale) but I use it to get further cheaper rate.

Do we know all the changes we asked them to make for our order? This would be interesting for me to know

Are we getting the F3 spec with the latest AESA and upgraded engines?

 

[Abingdonboy]

@Abingdonboy why did we go for the Israeli head mounted system instead of the French? Is it superior and more cost effective?

Which HMD are you talking about bro?

We selected 36 Rafales not a further order?

The deal to make 90 more Rafales in India is ongoing with Dassualt, should be complete this FY (latest by March 2017).

Do we know all the changes we asked them to make for our order? This would be interesting for me to know

Improved M88 engine allowing India's Rafales to carry 10 tons of weaponary is the headline grabber but there will be other customisations for sure.

@PARIKRAMA will be able to tell you more.

 

[Oracle 33]

Which HMD are you talking about bro?


The deal to make 90 more Rafales in India is ongoing with Dassualt, should be complete this FY (latest by March 2017).


Improved M88 engine allowing India's Rafsles to carry 10 tons of weaponary is the headline grabber but there will be other customisations for sure.

@PARIKRAMA will be able to tell you more.

I heard we asked them to make some changes which include using the Israeli head mounted system for our Rafale, is there a specific reason we did this?

Indian Air Force wants to integrate a Israeli helmet mounted display with the Rafale fighter jets besides tweaking the weaponry technology so that the aircraft can fire a missile other than what the Rafales carry. The missile, sources said is of American make.

 

[Abingdonboy]

I heard we asked them to make some changes which include using the Israeli head mounted system for our Rafale, is there a specific reason we did this?

Indian Air Force wants to integrate a Israeli helmet mounted display with the Rafale fighter jets besides tweaking the weaponry technology so that the aircraft can fire a missile other than what the Rafales carry. The missile, sources said is of American make.

Weird news IMHO

1) The French already have the TOPSIGHT-I HMDS that is made in India (with Samatal) and is in service with the IN's MIG-29Ks and IAF's MIG-29UPGs and upgraded Mirage 2000s (-5 Mk.2). If any HMDS was coming it would be the Thales TOPSIGHT-I I would have thought.
2) The IAF doesn't use any American missiles so why would it its Rafales wo have that capability?


+ The Israeli HMDS would be the DASH III which is in use on the LCA but I'd have thought it was easier to go with the Thales TOPSIGHT-I

And has already been tested on the Rafale:

 

[TopCat]

How about JV with China?

 

[Oracle 33]

Weird news IMHO

1) The French already have the TOPSIGHT-I HMDS that is made in India (with Samatal) and is in service with the IN's MIG-29Ks and IAF's MIG-29UPGs. If any HMDS was coming it would be the Thales TOPSIGHT-I I would have thought.
2) The IAF doesn't use any American missiles so why would it its Rafales wo have that capability?

This is why I was unsure why we specifically were asking for the Israeli system but I heard the Israeli company is also working on the F-35 system.

Pentagon announces Elbit, its US partner to be sole supplier of helmets to all stealth aircraft . Deal worth more than $1 billion over 10 years

 

[Abingdonboy]

This is why I was unsure why we specifically were asking for the Israeli system but I heard the Israeli company is also working on the F-35 system.

Let's see how this pans out, the TOPSIGHT-I seems like the most logical choice and it's not like the IAF insisted on the DASH III for the Mirage upgrade (they chose the TOPSIGHT-I for that).

 

[Oracle 33]

Let's see how this pans out, the TOPSIGHT-I seems like the most logical choice and it's not like the IAF insisted on the DASH III for the Mirage upgrade (they chose the TOPSIGHT-I for that).

I think we will be using Israeli AESA on our LCA? maybe it was a deal struck the more we give to the Israelis the more they might offer us perhaps but let's see...