India vying for air superiority

[Photon]

Thusfar just the forthcoming Rafales will have the 100+km Meteor (so not there yet), and while India looking into integrating Meteor into Su-30, that too isn't quite a reality just yet. The 110km Astra is still in PreProduction/Testing.

PAF currently operates the 105+ km AIM-120C-5 AMRAAM on its its 18 F-16C/D Block 50/52+ and 45 F-16A/B Block 15 MLU fighters. Who knows, in future it may acquire the 160km+ AIM-120D (C-8)...

In most BVR scenarios maximum range of the missile rarely matters. What matter's is the missile's ' No escape zone'.

Being Ramjet powered, Mach 4 missile, Meteor's NEZ(approx 60Km's) is three times that of AiM 120-D's.

Maximum range of Meteor missile is in the vicinity of 150 Kms.

 

[Basel]

In most BVR scenarios maximum range of the missile rarely matters. What matter's is the missile's ' No escape zone'.

Being Ramjet powered, Mach 4 missile, Meteor's NEZ(approx 60Km's) is three times that of AiM 120-D's.

Maximum range of Meteor missile is in the vicinity of 150 Kms.

Till you get Meteor Chinse PL-15 and ramjet PL-21 will be ready for operations so PAF has no worries.

 

[RPK]

With what? 33+12 Mig 29K? Hal Tejas is yet to enter Naval Air Arm service (first 6 ordered, total 36 planned)
Versus PAFs current 76 F-16 (13 A/B, 45 AM/BM, 18 C/D), 90 JF-17 (increasing), 75 Mirage 3, 82 Mirage 5 and 184 Shenyang F-7 (Mig 21)

Blah blah blah.

After Upgrading to proposed levels will increase capacities but Block 50+ /F17 Block 3 have many surprises for many ,Any ways will be off topic ,Point being there is going to be closed gap with each opponent ,For the first time i would like to see offensive technology for PAF rather than reactive buys

watch out Indian Naval MMRCA

 

[volatile]

watch out Indian Naval MMRCA

When ? any time lines ?

 

[RPK]

When ? any time lines ?

In three to five years period

 

[Stephen Cohen]

Rafale on par with F-35, a generation ahead of F-16 jets: Eric Trappier

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...6-jets-eric-trappier/articleshow/54494005.cms

"I feel Rafale happened because of the confidence in the long partnership between India and France, between IAF and Dassault," said Eric Trappier.

The Rafale deal has been long in the making, with the NDA govt scrapping the original 2007 project and going for direct purchase of 36 Rafales. Dassault CEO Eric Trappier talked to TOI . Excerpts:

What does Rafale bring to India ?
The number one reason for the success (in the deal going through) is its capabilities. The aircraft's performance was evaluated by the skilled IAF in different conditions here (during the MMRCA project evaluation).It has the capability to do everything. It's a good air-to-air combat aircraft, a strike aircraft, a reconnaisance and intelligence aircraft. It is good for all types of missions designed for the French forces, including from aircraft carriers. This was totally in line with what IAF wanted.

You said the negotiations were tough. What are the advantages for India on the price front, or on the technology front?
The negotiations were really tough on the price. I will not say how much as that is part of the discussion between the two governments. This is an inter-government deal.As far as 50% offsets... they (India) have been able to get more from us.

I feel this happened because of the confidence in the long partnership between India and France, between IAF and Dassault. India is proud about the first (Dassault) fighters it acquired in 1953 and later, the Mirage-2000s. When you are speaking defence, you don't want to have just a good deal. You want a good plane. A good fighter, because this part of the world might sometimes be dangerous. You don't deal with security lightly .

Is there any reference to the Rafale being nuclear capable?
It is totally in line with the French definition and more than that, we have been developing specifications that were required by the IAF. But basically it is the same system as for France.

And the French Rafales are nuclear capable?
That is something specific to France.

There have been questions on the high costs. It is said India can buy three Russian Sukhois for one Rafale.

Yes, maybe Rafale is more expensive. But those who know about fighters also know that Rafale is much more capable than a Sukhoi... in terms of survivability and all combat roles. The Russian aircraft are good, no doubt.But when your air force will have the Rafale, they will be happy to have it in their inventory, just like the Mirage-2000s which are the backbone of IAF.

Rafale is more a competitor for the F-35. We are a generation ahead of the F 16.

How did the negotiations change with the current government taking office since the MMRCA project was deadlocked?
I think they (Modi government) took a decision to reduce the number of aircraft but go ahead with the deal. We want fighters to be delivered, you need a CCO (contract change order). It is this government that decided. They signed the deal. They made this deal a reality.

Do you think India will go in for more orders?

We will work on it. As a manufacturer I will like to sell more. But I am satisfied with this contract. We will work with our Indian colleagues to develop the local industry here.

What does this deal mean for the India-France strategic partnership?
It is between the governments. A strategic partnership is more than an aircraft deal. I can only comment on the aircraft. The partnership is at a political level, it is more than good, we are real partners.

What about the 50 per cent offsets condition... which are the areas that can be developed?
India is already a leading country in software. We would like to take advantage of this. It is time to develop equipment. It can be a success story. Dassault is at the top in digital processes. This is a must to address the worldwide market.

There are fears about India-France defence projects after the Scorpene data leak.

I am sure the leak is being investigated. About Dassault, I will say security is a very serious matter. We have protected ourselves but zero risk does not exist.

 

[volatile]

In three to five years period

Ok we will talk about it in 3-5 years ,Cheers

 

[RPK]

Ok we will talk about it in 3-5 years ,Cheers

That is what said in my post earlier as near future Cheers

 

[CorporateAffairs]

India already has far air superiority than Pak.
These acquisitions are for other challenges.

 

[jaiind]

I dont see any IAF planes flying over Pakistani air space. get to know what air superiority means. IAF may have air superiority in its own air space, but not in pakistan's air space.



Aim 120C-5 is a proven weapon system. It cannot be neglected in any air war between PAF and IAF.

Then why PAF didnt had intervened in kargil conflict with their Aim 120c-5??

 

[Penguin]

From ,Americans ,in near future?
I dont think so.
Then they will get two choice
Our defence market or theirs .
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/K-100_(missile)

Ah, K-100. Another 'not quite there yet' missile. ("No in-service date has yet been suggested.")

Pakistan has already received AIM-120C-5. Indonesia has already ordered AIM-120C-7, joining Singapore, Finland, Morocco, South Korea and Switzerland. Australia has requested AIM120D for its F-35s, and will be the first non-US country to order it. Meanwhile, Raytheon is also working on mating the AIM-120C-7 seekerhead with the rocket motor or the RIM-162 Evolved SeaSparrow Missile (ESSM) to produce AMRAAM-ER. It has been offered by Raytheon to extend the range of SL-AMRAAM missile-based air defense systems. The AMRAAM-ER may feature greater range compared with the SL-AMRAAM missile, which uses the normal AIM-120 missile. While this will be a naval/ground application, it can easily turn into an AAM.

AIM-120 SL-AMRAAM, SL-AMRAAM-ER, AIM-9X

 

[kaykay]

Air superiority fighters are not really a coz of concern for IAF rather good multi-role fighters. IAF has only 50 truly multi-role fighters in the form of Mirage-2000s. With ~300 primarily air superiority fighters( 4th gen). For BVR, R-77, Derby and MICA are already in service while Meteor and Astra would see service life soon too. May be even Aim-120D if India selects F-18SH or F-16s under make in India.

 

[SrNair]

Ah, K-100. Another 'not quite there yet' missile. ("No in-service date has yet been suggested.")

Pakistan has already received AIM-120C-5. Indonesia has already ordered AIM-120C-7, joining Singapore, Finland, Morocco, South Korea and Switzerland. Australia has requested AIM120D for its F-35s, and will be the first non-US country to order it. Meanwhile, Raytheon is also working on mating the AIM-120C-7 seekerhead with the rocket motor or the RIM-162 Evolved SeaSparrow Missile (ESSM) to produce AMRAAM-ER. It has been offered by Raytheon to extend the range of SL-AMRAAM missile-based air defense systems. The AMRAAM-ER may feature greater range compared with the SL-AMRAAM missile, which uses the normal AIM-120 missile. While this will be a naval/ground application, it can easily turn into an AAM.

So you think our AF dont have k100?
I dont think so

 

[Penguin]

In most BVR scenarios maximum range of the missile rarely matters. What matter's is the missile's ' No escape zone'.

Being Ramjet powered, Mach 4 missile, Meteor's NEZ(approx 60Km's) is three times that of AiM 120-D's.

Maximum range of Meteor missile is in the vicinity of 150 Kms.

Yeas, you refer to this:

But it actually is

... not AIM-120D specifically

The -120D variant has just entered full production. Both Aim-120 and ESSM are a mach 4 missile, actually 4+ for ESSM. The ESSM rocker is much fatter (254mm versus 180mm) and will give better kinematics relative to standard AIM-120.

It depends in this case (Rafale) also on whether there is a one-way or two-way data link.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteor_(missile)#Datalink

Still, today, AIM-120C-5 is currently in use with PAF, while Rafale (and Meteor) have yet to be delivered and inducted.

Incidentally, the French have only approved Meteor carriage for two of the Rafale's stations.

Good discussion of topic here: http://bestfighter4canada.blogspot.nl/2014/08/meteor-vs-amraam-minor-upgrade-or.html

 

[Penguin]

In three to five years period

And what exactly would we see appear in that timeframe, other than Mig-29K and Hal Tejas? A naval aircraft, yes? That can withstand the sea environment and can be used from the ski-jump of Vikramaditya and the new INS Vikrant? What aircraft exactly?

So you think our AF dont have k100?
I dont think so

MAKS 2007 is almost 10 years ago. Let's move beyond mock-ups. Show it to be operational, with Russian and/or Indian air force. Pics, official statemements? Tests? Anything?