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India violating IWT: Pakistan to face severe water shortage

Pakistan should bomb the Indian Dams in a surgical preemptive strike. If Indians try to come across , use the tactical nukes to incinerate the strike formations. Then if Indians go nuclear, go on a all out nuclear attack. If we are going down let us take these ************* down with us.

Hey coward, first move back to Pakistan and then talk about nuclear war. You are just a perfect ********. You want others to die to satisfy your ego while you and your family will be eating hamburger at a Mcdonalds somewhere in the US.

@topic

Not surprising we are violating IWT. Our politicians were probably high while signing the treaty. India being the upstream country and allowed to use only 20% of the water. :lol: . Treaty was always unfair , no need to stick to its terms
 
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ajtr parents lived in pakistan for a short while, or atleast i think so, or maybe she has mix pak indo breed :lol:
 
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Water resource should be a red line for Pakistan. There is no way for Pakistan to show any tolerance toward manipulating with such a vital resource. The same thing happened with Egypt when Ethiopia was going to build a dam on the Nile River, and as a result Egypt threaten of bombing it regardless of any consequences as this river is an artery of Egypt. I think Pakistan should do the same and shouldn't show any tolerance toward this issue.

Hey jordanian , why don't you just go ride your camels instead of talking nonsense? . It worked for Egypt because Egypt is much stronger than Ethiopia , which hardly even has an army. Instead of bullshitting , go compare the size,population economy and military arsenal of India and Pakistan and then use your tiny brain to decide whether military action or threats will work in this case or not.

Here's a source that should make it easier : http://www.globalfirepower.com/
 
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Hey coward, first move back to Pakistan and then talk about nuclear war. You are just a perfect ********. You want others to die to satisfy your ego while you and your family will be eating hamburger at a Mcdonalds somewhere in the US.

@topic

Not surprising we are violating IWT. Our politicians were probably high while signing the treaty. India being the upstream country and allowed to use only 20% of the water. :lol: . Treaty was always unfair , no need to stick to its terms

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Just nuke India.... The dams will open by themselves..

Ya and u will drink that radiation contaminated water.......its fool like you that make me wanna stay on this forum for just 1 min more...u never know what a great joke you may miss ....

I say connect all river in India ......let them cry.......its time to give them test of their own medicine...Terrorism:devil:
 
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[:::~Spartacus~:::];3176006 said:
ajtr parents lived in pakistan for a short while, or atleast i think so, or maybe she has mix pak indo breed :lol:
And you can think of only 2 reasons?:rolleyes:

majority of Pakistanis think that work of the dam could be stop by using world bank but the reality they could only get the design of dam changed instead of getting construction stopped.
you are rigt as happened in Bagalihar case and im confident same gonna happen in Kishan ganga with minor design chnge project will go through already lot of work has already been completed on the project.

Indus waters


Zirgham Nabi Afridi
Tuesday, May 15, 2012 From Print Edition



Given the background of the partition and the hostile relations between Pakistan and India; the Indus Waters Treaty (IWT) signed by the two riparian states only 13 years into the start of their relations as independent but bitter neighbours, was nothing less than a great feat.

However, the issues arising in Pakistan by India’s filling of the Baglihar Dam in 2008 and the ongoing Kishanganga Dam arbitration process between the two neighbouring states has placed the spotlight back on the IWT of 1960.

Is the IWT – given the changes in demography, increase in the demand for water and climatic changes since 1960 – still relevant as a framework for sharing the Indus waters between the two riparian states? If it is, then the question arises is that why has this issue been recently thrust into the media limelight in Pakistan as an existential security threat emanating out of India? And why did the need arise for Pakistan last year to take India to the Permanent Court of Arbitration over the Kishanganga Dam?

According to the IWT, Pakistan has exclusive rights over the western rivers of the Indus basin: the Indus itself, Jhelum and Chenab. India, on the other hand, has exclusive rights over the three eastern rivers; Ravi, Beas and Sutlej.

The treaty was essentially an attempt to assuage Pakistani fears – arising from India shutting off the Central Bari Doab Canals at the time of the sowing season in 1948 – of any future Indian attempts to damage Pakistan by either completely depriving it of water flowing in from the Indian-controlled territory at crucial periods of the agricultural season or by causing massive floods downstream.

The expectation from the Pakistani side is that India cannot construct any massive hydro-projects on the three western rivers given Pakistan’s exclusive rights over them. And, especially since India has exclusive rights over the three eastern rivers and the freedom to build its water projects on those.

This stance, even if it is known to be erroneous by our Indus waters experts and our politicians, is the point of view being projected, through the media, on to the intelligentsia and the common man of Pakistan. The common perception in Pakistan is that any dam-building by India on any of the western rivers by default equates to the ‘theft’ of ‘our’ waters or to handing over a strategic advantage to India that it will not fail to use against us.

The reality is that the IWT does contain certain ‘permissive clauses’ that do provide India with a degree of flexibility for water projects on the western rivers. This is allowed on the condition that the essential requirements and guidelines or the ‘restrictive clauses’ of the treaty that protect Pakistan’s interests are not put into jeopardy.

The fact that India is testing the permissive parts of the IWT to the full with its projects on the western rivers, in a seemingly unilateral manner, is the backdrop of the recent round of arbitration. It will be unrealistic for Pakistan to hope for a ruling that completely stops India from ever carrying out any water-project on the western rivers. The court cannot take away from India the facility it has been granted by the treaty.

The Pakistani side should instead be prepared for the verdict from the arbitration process to merely seek certain changes by India to the existing design of the Kishanganga dam. The other realistic expectation would be one that seeks joint scientific research by the two countries to gather more data on the claims of the disputing parties so that any final ruling is based on scientific evidence.

In either case, India will eventually be given the go-ahead to construct the dam with one or another design variation setting a precedence on the interpretation of both the permissible and restrictive clauses of the IWT that provide for Indian works on the western rivers. Pakistan will have to adapt to the new reality.

The Pakistani side needs to understand that India as a country faces energy issues just like Pakistan does. It is only natural that India tries to extract maximum leeway on what it is allowed to do with the western rivers while using creative ways to interpret the restrictive clauses.

The common wisdom in the Pakistani ranks may be that the arbitration courts or neutral experts may deliver a more favourable outcome than what can be arrived at bilaterally with their Indian counterparts. On the contrary, the judgments of the neutral expert on the Baglihar case in 2007 make it evident that the verdict will be closer to India’s stance. This will leave Pakistan in a position where it is not ready to tackle the new implications of that verdict simply because of a lack of research-based data on the subject.

In light of the new stresses on the IWT, a dispassionate analysis of all the options available to Pakistan – including the extreme decision of waging war or altogether doing away with the treaty – would reveal that it is in Pakistan’s interests to work with India within the confines of the IWT of 1960.

With this realisation our politicians, Indus waters experts and media should not make a cricket match out of the water issue. It is time for us to change tact. All discourse within Pakistan regarding the matter of the Indus waters, be it at the political and bureaucratic level or in the media, should be conducted on purely scientific grounds based on sound data and research.

While the management and administration of the Indus waters can be left in the hands of the government and bureaucracy, the scientific research on all possible issues surrounding the Indus waters must be opened up to the universities in Pakistan.

There is a massive need for scientific research and data-gathering on the plethora of issues related to hydrology and water management of the Indus basin. Such issues include studying the cumulative effects on the water flows in the western rivers due to Kishanganga and other possible Indian water projects; ascertaining why there has been a decreasing trend in the flow of water on our western rivers in general; what the effect on the ecology of the rivers due to the water projects and changing climate would be and so on.

The government must fund PhD and MSc level research work in universities in conjunction with other interested donor agencies and shift Pakistan’s reliance on a few Indus waters experts towards breeding a young generation of Pakistani scientists well-versed on all Indus waters-related issues.

Our research work can be made more palatable for our Indian counterparts during discussions and negotiations by partnering our water research departments and universities with their equivalent in India.

Pakistan needs to replace emotional rhetoric and raise its concerns with India regarding the issue of the Indus waters on dispassionate, objective and scientific grounds. Sound and thorough academic research, especially joint work between partner universities in the two countries when provided as evidence, will make India more accepting of Pakistan’s concerns and will help to search for solutions in earnest.

Even if this tact fails and arbitration is eventually required, Pakistan stands a much better chance of a favourable verdict if it prepares its case based on thorough and credible scientific evidence, rather than moving the court based on whims and seemingly unqualified apprehensions.

The writer is a researcher at the Jinnah Institute. The views expressed in this article are his own. Email: zirgham@gmail. com or follow him at @znAfridi
 
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In conversation: Pakistani water expert Arshad H Abbasi

GovernanceNow.com |
Water is the driving force of all nature, said Leonardo da Vinci. But in case of the strained India-Pakistan ties, the exact opposite is true: it has been the stalling force. With a cloud of distrust always hovering above, even the best intentions have been misconstrued and hostilities alleged.

Take the case of Tulbul navigation project (what Pakistan refers to as the Wullar barrage). In the mid-1980s, India started building a dam on the Jhelum river to help make it navigable throughout the year, but had to suspend work after Pakistan complained that the Jhelum’s currents would be slowed in its territory, and that the work violated a water-sharing pact. Nine rounds of secretary-level talks have been held since the project was stalled, followed by five more meetings in 1998, 2004, 2005, 2006 and 2007 between the two countries. The latest one resumed on March 27 in New Delhi in the presence of a 13-member delegation from Pakistan led by water and power secretary Imtiaz Kazi.

The 1960 Indus Water Treaty governs the use of the water flowing down the rivers which course though both the countries. As per the accord, India has ‘unrestricted’ use of water from three rivers in the east – the Sutlej, Beas, and Ravi. Pakistan has ‘unrestricted’ use of the water of the western rivers – the Indus, Chenab and Jhelum. Pakistan accuses India of violating the treaty by reducing the flow of water down the rivers it was awarded use of. Pakistan also objects to India’s Baglihar hydropower and water storage project on the river Chenab. India denies any unfair diversion of Pakistan’s water.

While some Indian analysts maintain that Pakistani complaints are aimed more at diverting attention within Pakistan from the internal water row, the chorus of India stealing water from the western rivers is increasing in Pakistan by the day.

In an interview with Trithesh Nandan, Pakistani water expert Arshad H Abbasi strikes a different chord. He says emphatically that India is not stealing water, and that the problem of water scarcity in Pakistan is more due to its mismanagement. Abbasi is senior advisor, water & renewable energy, with the Islamabad-based think tank Sustainable Development Policy Institute. He says it is not terrorism, Kashmir or even boundary dispute but water and environment issues that need an urgent attention from both the sides. Edited excerpts…

In the last three-four years, water issues between the rival nations have grown bigger than ever. Your comments.
I always want to make a point on this issue. Please don’t mix rivalry with water. Around 60-70 percent of population in Pakistan is dependent on water from Indus basin rivers. An ordinary person is least bothered about issues between India and Pakistan. But he is concerned about his own water woes. In the last few years, the flow of the Chenab is fluctuating. The issue started with the Baglihar dam on the Chenab. Pakistan protested its construction. It raised the question of design. The Indus Water Treaty has also specifications on design. India raised (and rightly so) the issue of sedimentation. Since 1992, the sedimentation has increased manifold. Because of the sedimentation, India says that it changed the design.

Pakistan complained about the Baglihar dam to the World Bank and in response an independent arbitration was set up. On several counts, it rejected Pakistan’s claims.
Before Pakistan went to the independent arbitrator, India gave an assurance that it will reduce the height of the dam but Pakistan refused and went to the World Bank. The verdict came in 2007, upholding only a few objections raised by Pakistan like pondage capacity to be reduced by 13.5 percent, height of dam structure be reduced by 1.5 metres and power intake tunnels be raised by 3 metres, thereby limiting some flow control capabilities of the earlier design.

But Pakistan was not satisfied with the verdict. As an independent analyst, how do you see the decision?
The decision was the best given by a neutral panel. A larger section in Pakistan still feels other way round. It is a matter of understanding. The larger voice, which opposes the decision, does not know the subject very well.

People in Pakistan say that India is stopping the flow of the western rivers by constructing more than dozen dams.
My point is different. The water flow of the Chenab and Jhelum has been drastically reduced, because of a reduction in monsoon rainfall in the watershed of the Chenab. However, India should also look into why it is constructing so many dams.

So in your view, India should not be accused of stopping the flow?
So far, to my knowledge, India is not stealing water. It does not have the capacity to steal water. There is certainly a reduced flow, so there is anxiety on the Pakistani side. You know we are living in a state of hostility. Accusations are the natural fallout.

I have a basic question for both the countries: why don’t you take help of technology to track the water flow of the Indus basin rivers? This will help remove the mistrust between the two countries. But both the countries won’t agree to the use of such technology because of a mental block. The officials sitting in the Indus Water Treaty Commission on both the sides are so much pressurised that they can’t go beyond the treaty.

Then why has the flow of the rivers reduced?
That’s more due to environmental impact. The 65-year-old hostility has taken a toll on the environment, which can be seen in the Kashmir valley. Our rivers are drying. I have been advocating serious dialogue between India and Pakistan on the environmental issues. Environmental disasters don’t follow international borders.

Both the countries also need to work on joint watershed management. An environmental impact assessment is the best instrument to assess the possible negative impact that a proposed project may have on the environment, together with the water flow in the rivers.

What is Pakistan’s objection to the Kishanganga project?
In this case, India argues that it will divert the water of Kishanganga (Neelum in Pakistan) to join the Jhelum river, which also flows through Pakistan – and that therefore the water will ultimately reach Pakistan. Due to the construction of the Kishanganga project, water will be diverted from the Neelum and a 90-km stretch of the river that 6,00,000 people depend on for agriculture and fisheries will dry up. But why divert water from the Neelum valley then? It will impact the whole environment. If you see studies done on Farakka barrage (on the India-Bangladesh border), it had the worst effect on water and environment.

What is the water scenario in Pakistan?
There is gross mismanagement of water in Pakistan. Recently, the Lahore high court pulled up the government on this issue. The governments have paid lip service when it comes to conservation of water. I started a project on rainwater harvesting in Pakistan but people questioned it. “How can rainwater be used for drinking purpose,” they asked. There were a few rainwater harvesting projects during the British rule. But they don’t exist anymore.

Did the government show any interest in your project?
It is a low-cost water conserving project. It is not a mega project so the government has not taken it up. There should be strong accountability. Pakistan does not have enough reservoirs or dams to store water.

Tell us about one success story from Pakistan in this sector.
It was stopping the New Murree project. As soon as the project was initiated by former president Pervez Musharraf, I made a vigorous campaign against the project. Had the project completed, the area would have faced serious environmental disaster. The supreme court took suo motu action and chief justice Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry gave a judgment against the president. Development projects are often planned without considering human and environmental aspects and subsequently such development process results into disastrous consequences for both people and environment.

But due to my opposition, I suffered a lot. I was also forced to resign from the post of director of the planning commission. If you take a closer look, it is basically due to the government’s inefficiency that Pakistan is facing energy, water and electricity crises.

While Pakistan blames India for its water problem, a closer look suggests that its industries mainly textile and sugar waste a lot of water.
All the industries are closed now. They have been closed due to cheap Chinese products coming to Pakistan. Nobody even complains about it because we are a friendly nation to China. Also, when you get electricity for two hours, how can industry survive?
 
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Chalo good news for Pakistan has won kishanganga case:enjoy:


ICA rules in Pakistan’s favour over Kishanganga Dam
ISLAMABAD: Chairman Wapda Shakeel Durrani Thursday informed the Senate Standing committee on Water and Power that the International Court of Arbitration has ruled in favour of Pakistan and issued a stay order on the construction of Kishanganga Dam on the Neelum River at Gurez.

Senator Muhammad Zahid Khan, Chairman Senate Standing Committee on Water & Power, presided over the meeting of the committee at Parliament House.

Durrani said that the court had issued a stay order on the project, adding that India had stopped construction work on the dam too.

He also informed the committee that Pakistan has begun work on the Neelum-Jhelum project and following the fund released by the government, instead of being completed in 2018, this project will be finished by 2016. Durrani said that work on digging the tunnel will begin by August 7.

Earlier, upon approval of the then prime minister, Yousaf Raza Gilani, Pakistan had challenged the project in the ICA, following which the court had barred India from permanent constructions on the Kishanganga hydro-electricity project (KHEP) on the Neelum River in a short term order.
 
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If you guys hurt our water supply, this would be our only choice...

Wrong answer ...There is no water on Mars too that cant be your choice.
My Indian friend meant that if India is ever nuked by you THEN will have no country to live in next few minutes.And there is no country on Planet Earth who is gonna welcome you people.

Hey kiddo, I think this describes YOUR politicians. "Send surgical strikes, send surgical strikes." Hehe, what happened?

Well atleast our politicians said it through proper diplomatic channels that to on global stage what you can do is rant here or other internet forums.

And We saw whats comming to you ...so abstained from surgical strikes & wasting our weapons.
 
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Pakistan should bomb the Indian Dams in a surgical preemptive strike. If Indians try to come across , use the tactical nukes to incinerate the strike formations. Then if Indians go nuclear, go on a all out nuclear attack. If we are going down let us take these ************* down with us.

That may very well be the only option left, pretty soon. If we are unable to solve these problems and if the situation becomes critical then we may have no other choice left but to demolish the dams in precision strikes from within Pakistan using cruise missiles.
 
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That may very well be the only option left, pretty soon. If we are unable to solve these problems and if the situation becomes critical then we may have no other choice left but to demolish the dams in precision strikes from within Pakistan using cruise missiles.

and flood ur own country. :rofl:
 
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