India TV channels pulled after massacre expose

[Energon]

I'm undecided on it at the moment. But I'm not undecided on Gujerat. I know pretty much that Hindu government officials were involved in this, and considering the fire was started accidentally according to a court, the savage way in which Muslims were killed was pretty disgusting for a country that wants to have a seat on the UN. I can't think of another country's government that would urge their police to kill their own citizens over something that those citizens religious group never did.

How can you not be "undecided" on the Gujrat issue when all the information out there is piecemeal at best? Don't get me wrong, as my posts indicate, I too am heavily inclined to believe that Modi and his cronies are most probably guilty of what they have been charged with. But unless you have access to all the information at hand (which I don't think either one of us have) I don't know how anybody can be so sure about there not being two sides to this story as well. For now, I take solace in the fact that heavy efforts are being made at the national level to investigate the situation as opposed to vehemently denying its existence via federal policy as in the case of Turkey's Article 301.

 

[Spring Onion]

uff another one. Its isnt all over India.

Even if it was not all over India the ban was not lawful isnt it ???

Well cant explain that to you, it beyond your range of understanding..

Never mind again Bull as now i understand your tactics to lock threads against India by resorting to such personal attacks. so move on

Have you realised why a simple thing like showing diana's body at the site of accident was not shown till now.

First of all showing dead bodies is against Ethics of Media

Secondly just answer me one Question is banning anything from being telecasting or publishing (which is not against dierct insult to a religion) is not curbing "freedom of expression" as you were advocating in another thread ?????

 

[Neo]

Pakistan wants to know truth about Godhra​

October 29, 2007

Pakistan on Monday said the footage of the Tehelka sting operation on post-Godhra riots in Gujarat was "extremely disturbing" and wanted the truth to be brought out before the world.

Reacting to a question on the sting at the weekly news briefing, Foreign Office spokesman Mohammad Sadiq said, "What has been shown is extremely disturbing for us."

"Pakistan is also concerned because in the context of the Nehru-Liaquat pact, we have a link to the issue," he said.

"We think that the carnage and terrorism that was experienced by Muslims in Gujarat should come out in the open and the world should know what happened there," Sadiq said.

The Nehru-Liaquat pact of 1950, signed by India's first prime minister Jawaharlal Nehru and his Pakistani counterpart Liaquat Ali Khan, included a declaration by the two governments of the fundamental rights of minorities and an undertaking to enforce them effectively.

Pakistan wants to know truth about Godhra

 

[Energon]

Beacuse the Muslims were Killed Brutally by Hindu fanatics in Gujrat.

Incorrect. Muslims weren't the only ones to die. Many non-Muslims were also killed, and your repeated insistence on making this a Muslim issue undermines the fact that human beings were killed. Why is it that the death of a Muslim is more important than the death of a Hindu, Parsi or an atheist? Your posts make it seem like you've missed the entire point of this event. The crime here is not that Modi and his supporters killed Muslims, but rather that they killed Indian citizens; and that is also why they should be punished to the extent of the law if found guilty.

Secondly howcome banning of news becomes an effort to stop firing up wonds whe India put the ban while if same happens in any other part of the world it becomes lack of "freedom of expression"
Shouldnt the same formula should be accpeted in all other cases in the world ????

Please refer to post 6 because it completely negates everything you've said here.

 

[Energon]

I know pretty much that Hindu government officials were involved in this, and considering the fire was started accidentally according to a court, the savage way in which Muslims were killed was pretty disgusting for a country that wants to have a seat on the UN. I can't think of another country's government that would urge their police to kill their own citizens over something that those citizens religious group never did.

Btw, i forgot to mention this in my earlier post, but I totally agree with the bolded part of your statement. This incident is a shameful reminder of India's inability to prevent mob violence orchestrated by incompetent local leaders. Having said that, obtaining a permanent seat on the UN security council it seems has nothing to do with such incidents or else China and Russia wouldn't be on that list.

I do however strongly disagree with the Muslim aspect of things. As I mentioned in my earlier response to Jana, the shameful crime here is not that Muslims were killed, but rather that Indian citizens (Muslim or otherwise) were killed. I don't think the deaths of non-Muslims in this incident or anywhere else are any less significant; and if anything it annoys me when all things are turned into a 'Muslim plight' for sociopolitical purposes because it actually weakens the argument.

 

[Bull]

Pakistan wants to know truth about Godhra​

October 29, 2007

Pakistan on Monday said the footage of the Tehelka sting operation on post-Godhra riots in Gujarat was "extremely disturbing" and wanted the truth to be brought out before the world.

Reacting to a question on the sting at the weekly news briefing, Foreign Office spokesman Mohammad Sadiq said, "What has been shown is extremely disturbing for us."

"Pakistan is also concerned because in the context of the Nehru-Liaquat pact, we have a link to the issue," he said.

"We think that the carnage and terrorism that was experienced by Muslims in Gujarat should come out in the open and the world should know what happened there," Sadiq said.

The Nehru-Liaquat pact of 1950, signed by India's first prime minister Jawaharlal Nehru and his Pakistani counterpart Liaquat Ali Khan, included a declaration by the two governments of the fundamental rights of minorities and an undertaking to enforce them effectively.

Pakistan wants to know truth about Godhra

What **** is that? What duty does Pakistan have towards Indian minorities and vice versa. If true, issues like Nandigram,Reservations all would have to be discussed with pakistan, thats absurd.

 

[Bull]

Even if it was not all over India the ban was not lawful isnt it ???

I asked you a question in return that answers it.

Never mind again Bull as now i understand your tactics to lock threads against India by resorting to such personal attacks. so move on

Well only against a honourable few.

First of all showing dead bodies is against Ethics of Media

Ethics and media, both dont go well together.

Secondly just answer me one Question is banning anything from being telecasting or publishing (which is not against dierct insult to a religion) is not curbing "freedom of expression" as you were advocating in another thread ?????

If i answer this you will again cry again saying its an insult.

 

[Spring Onion]

Incorrect. Muslims weren't the only ones to die. Many non-Muslims were also killed, and your repeated insistence on making this a Muslim issue undermines the fact that human beings were killed. Why is it that the death of a Muslim is more important than the death of a Hindu, Parsi or an atheist? Your posts make it seem like you've missed the entire point of this event. The crime here is not that Modi and his supporters killed Muslims, but rather that they killed Indian citizens; and that is also why they should be punished to the extent of the law if found guilty..

My dear Energon im saying so beacuse your countryment including as Senior as Sir Salim (Ray) still believes by saying "Muslims had burnt Hindu pilgrimes alive with backing of ISI" and the killings of Muslims was justified.

One more thing i do not celebrate killing of anyone be it Muslim or Hindu or of any other faith.
Now as Muslims being indian citizens if someone from your country justifies the killing of own cititizens that it should be moment of worry not something to be get annoyed if some other Muslim that too from Pakistan mention it.

Please refer to post 6 because it completely negates everything you've said here.

post number 6 is yours right ????

as far my comment i was replying to Bull's notion of justifying the ban (irrespective of whether it was in one state or more) so i was telling him if he can see it right that same forumula should be accepted if any other nation does so.

As far your comment of mentioning it by Dawn well the news was also posted from Indian source and indian media and the headline was given by indian media not ours.

 

[Energon]

Pakistan wants to know truth about Godhra​

October 29, 2007

Pakistan on Monday said the footage of the Tehelka sting operation on post-Godhra riots in Gujarat was "extremely disturbing" and wanted the truth to be brought out before the world.

Reacting to a question on the sting at the weekly news briefing, Foreign Office spokesman Mohammad Sadiq said, "What has been shown is extremely disturbing for us."

"Pakistan is also concerned because in the context of the Nehru-Liaquat pact, we have a link to the issue," he said.

"We think that the carnage and terrorism that was experienced by Muslims in Gujarat should come out in the open and the world should know what happened there," Sadiq said.

The Nehru-Liaquat pact of 1950, signed by India's first prime minister Jawaharlal Nehru and his Pakistani counterpart Liaquat Ali Khan, included a declaration by the two governments of the fundamental rights of minorities and an undertaking to enforce them effectively.

Pakistan wants to know truth about Godhra

I saw this story... and it actually seems like a total waste. Pakistan's desire "to know the truth" about the on goings of Gujrat is just as meaningless as India's desire to "know the truth" about all the killings that take place in Baluchistan and all the tribal provinces of Pakistan. Also perpetuating the idea that this incident is only horrible because of the Muslim victims makes this "inquiry" a joke.

Mohammed Sadiq, Pakistan and the rest of the world will have to wait "to learn the truth" until the ongoing investigation and juristic process is complete.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Mohammed Sadiq, Pakistan and the rest of the world will have to wait "to learn the truth" until the ongoing investigation and juristic process is complete.

I posted this in an other thread, but relates to a concern that the "ongoing investigation" is not going to result in anything until Modi is out of power, which means that the investigation being conducted is a farce - in which case suspicion, of communal bias, is justified. Following are some of the criticisms of the investigation I have come across.

India's Supreme Court has ordered police in the state of Gujarat to review some 2,000 riot cases which were earlier dismissed as closed.

The court wants the police to decide whether any of the cases should be reinvestigated.
BBC NEWS | South Asia | Court orders Gujarat riot review

The upper house of the Indian parliament has voted unanimously to seek federal intervention in the riot-hit state of Gujarat.
BBC News | SOUTH ASIA | Indian MPs back Gujarat motion

The United States Department of State in its International Religious Freedom Report 2003 stated:
The Government dispatched the NHRC to investigate the attacks against Muslims, but the NHRC's findings that the attacks against Muslims "was a comprehensive failure on the part of the state government to control the persistent violation of rights of life, liberty, equality, and dignity of the people of the state," led to widespread criticism in the Hindu community and allegations of government partiality

Amnesty International's annual report on India in 2003 claimed the "Gujarat government did not actively fulfill its duty to provide appropriate relief and rehabilitation to the survivors". IT also claimed that "the same police force that was accused of colluding with the attackers was put in charge of the investigations into the massacres, undermining the process of delivery of justice to the victims

Human Rights Watch alleges that state enforcement and state machinery continues to "harass and intimidate"key witnesses, NGOs, social activists and lawyers who are fighting to seek justice for riot victims.

Things may have changed since the above reports, and I am open to arguments/evidence supporting that view.

With respect to the Turkish Armenian issue - it is a bit presumptuous to suggest that there is deliberate attempt to "hide a pogrom", as is the suggestion that one must be equally outraged at the "Turkish actions". Where does it all stop? Next I must express "outrage" at the situation in Darfur; over the situation in Somalia; over Iraq; over Afghanistan; over the Russian pogroms; over the holocaust; over the Mongols; over the "Indian genocide" of the Americas. Must one address every atrocity ever committed before one can express opinions over a particular one?

The Turks, and some historians, have genuine differences over an interpretation of history that supports the "genocide theory" - they also have a genuine concern over the Turkish deaths, by some accounts comparable to the Armenian ones, being ignored in this "politically motivated" push by the Armenian diaspora to label the incident a "genocide". And I am not saying that I agree either way, indeed i am not familiar with the situation much at all.

In contrast, the incident of the Gujrat riots is recent enough, with many of the protagonists alive, and investigations able to be conducted in "real time", that very few people doubt that the carnage was communal in nature, based on investigations and reports by various international institutions, as well as local commissions. I don't think the comparison is apt.

 

[roadrunner]

How can you not be "undecided" on the Gujrat issue when all the information out there is piecemeal at best? Don't get me wrong, as my posts indicate, I too am heavily inclined to believe that Modi and his cronies are most probably guilty of what they have been charged with. But unless you have access to all the information at hand (which I don't think either one of us have) I don't know how anybody can be so sure about there not being two sides to this story as well. For now, I take solace in the fact that heavy efforts are being made at the national level to investigate the situation as opposed to vehemently denying its existence via federal policy as in the case of Turkey's Article 301.

We might be talking about different things here. First, I'm not undecided on Gujer, second, the I've heard both sides of the Gujerat issue. The Muslims denied having anything to do with the train fire and got slaughtered (even if it was Muslims, why target innocent ones?), the other side of this is that the fire was accidental (as the Indian courts have said), so in either case the fact is that these Muslims were innocent 100% and got slaughtered for sure 100%. The case of the Armenian genocide is not so clean. We don't know the Turks carried out any genocide, we do know for a fact that Hindus carried out the Gujer pogrom. In fact, I believe the British cleared the 200 Turkish officers suspected of genocide in Malta. So noone is 100% sure the Turks were responsible for any genocide.

 

[Bull]

My dear Energon im saying so beacuse your countryment including as Senior as Sir Salim (Ray) still believes by saying "Muslims had burnt Hindu pilgrimes alive with backing of ISI" and the killings of Muslims was justified.

When did Salim say this. Dont try pulling off your media trick here, accusing and twsiting facts,

One more thing i do not celebrate killing of anyone be it Muslim or Hindu or of any other faith.

But then you are only bothered when Muslims die. rest all are lessser beings for you, right?

Now as Muslims being indian citizens if someone from your country justifies the killing of own cititizens that it should be moment of worry not something to be get annoyed if some other Muslim that too from Pakistan mention it.

Why are you so bothered. Those who died were Indians, those killed were indians. Why waste your time? Its our problem lets deal with it.