India Took a Shocking 33 Years to Develop a Jet Fighter (And It’s Still Not Ready for Combat)

[Mentee]

No problem at all !!!

Even when the whole world was hell bent on providing IAF every sort of technical assistance, I don't think so

 

[SOHEIL]

Even when the whole world was hell bent on providing IAF every sort of technical assistance, I don't think so

Corruption... Indeed !!!

 

[Mentee]

Corruption... Indeed !!!

Not our problem

 

[JOEY TRIBIANI]

tejas is a lost cause . indians should give up .

 

[Mugwop]

Duplicate thread

 

[Water Car Engineer]

33 years is the founding of India's aerospace defence R&D wing. There was a big gap in between Marut and Tejas, which that wing that to build up again.

Saying 33 years is like saying AMCA started in 09, sure, there were some wind tunnel models since then, but it's still just a paper plane even to this day, forget LCA 33 years ago. It went through sanctions and the money crunch of the late 80s, 90s.

The real test is it's successor in the form of AMCA, which hasnt officially started yet.

 

[AMCA]

The only reason why Pakistanis are crying in this thread is because their nation is inacapable of building anything more sophesticated than a cycle dynamo without Chinese and North Korean assistance. Had they tried building on their own anything even nearly sophesticated to an aircraft, they would know how difficult it is...

Tejas is a massive success both in terms of aircraft and the ecosystem it has created in the country. The only flaw was management of the project, somebody should have been stern on the changing user requirements and inducted the aircraft in block versions.

 

[damiendehorn]

Tejas is low cost light weight budget fighter .

It will form the bottom rung of the Indian airforces multiple combat types fleet.

Most countries only have two types in their fleet.

I think tejas will only enter in six sqds before being shelved

I doubt there is anything budget about the LCA. Current IAF price for the Mk 1a is $40m+ and any export price would have to include the development cost which usually amount to 25%-40% additional. So a export version of the LCA would cost in the region of $50m+ and then if its to be exported to nations that have restrictions for one reason or another would need to replace either the engine, radar, EW system, weapon systems etc etc (eg arab nations who have self-imposed imbargoes). Which would need further redesign, integration and testing........(read more costs)

A export version could end taking longer to develop and cost a lot more depending on the client, ($50m-$60m) plus etc etc.....in the end you will find other option available that are better for the price point. Oh and less I forget the lack of experience that HAL has in the international market!

 

[Awan68]

He

The only reason why Pakistanis are crying in this thread is because their nation is inacapable of building anything more sophesticated than a cycle dynamo without Chinese and North Korean assistance. Had they tried building on their own anything even nearly sophesticated to an aircraft, they would know how difficult it is...

Tejas is a massive success both in terms of aircraft and the ecosystem it has created in the country. The only flaw was management of the project, somebody should have been stern on the changing user requirements and inducted the aircraft in block versions.

Ge grow up will you, abandon chest thumping and blatant lies for a while and just analyse plain facts, india started its indigenous aircraft program 33 yrs a go, the jet still isnt operational!!!!, this really is unprecedented levels of incompitence, pakistan started thier program a lot later, we already have over 50 jets in service and moreover we are now in the final stages of its block 3, u hear that block 3, so have some decency or a shred of dignity and run off little puppy with ur tail between ur legs and please dont raise that assistance point again, its so damn stupid it makes me wanna cry, grow and learn to accept failiures or ur country will never learn from them..

 

[MimophantSlayer]

He

Ge grow up will you, abandon chest thumping and blatant lies for a while and just analyse plain facts, india started its indigenous aircraft program 33 yrs a go, the jet still isnt operational!!!!, this really is unprecedented levels of incompitence, pakistan started thier program a lot later, we already have over 50 jets in service and moreover we are now in the final stages of its block 3, u hear that block 3, so have some decency or a shred of dignity and run off little puppy with ur tail between ur legs and please dont raise that assistance point again, its so damn stupid it makes me wanna cry, grow and learn to accept failiures or ur country will never learn from them..

What is with you pseudo intellectuals in every other LCA thread?

Is it soooooo hard to understand that, fighter jets are usually inducted in a fashion Tejas is being inducted in.

When USAF bought F-16s they weren't "ready" either, its debugging and further upgradation was done only after induction.

Go learn the history of LCA the LCA Tejas sticky thread is open for you lot, it was ready years ago, IAF wanted new subsystems when it was on the precipice of being ready so the finish line was lengthened even further.

What Block 3? Has any of the newer advanced subsystems been tested already? Is that what you call "final stages"?


And Tejas IS operational, on July 2016 first 2 Tejas were given to the squadron in Bengaluru, Google it and burn.

 

[Thorough Pro]

Charity begins at home, how about selling it to IAF first. Who in the world will go for a system that it's original intended customer refuses to accept?

On a lighter note, will the customer have to buy the TATA truck separately?

 

[Dungeness]

And Tejas IS operational, on July 2016 first 2 Tejas were given to the squadron in Bengaluru, Google it and burn.

LCA has yet to achieve FOC, so as of now, these fighters are not "Battle Worthy".

 

[Qutb-ud-din Aybak]

Wrong..View attachment 355207
And indigenization content is being increased and now inported contents are only 25%
http://www.janes.com/article/65681/india-s-mod-releases-data-on-tejas-imported-components

http://wap.business-standard.com/ar...o-revive-engine-for-tejas-116112000534_1.html

Read the whole CAG report below

you are comparing an apple with oranges. engine,radar,control system constitutes the major parts of aircraft. the difficult ones. you can't take number of components and find percentage.

 

[MimophantSlayer]

LCA has yet to achieve FOC, so as of now, these fighters are not "Battle Worthy".

It is "Battle Worthy", and none of the confirmation bias parading around as intellectualism will change that, visit the Tejas sticky thread and know for yourself how "Battle Worthy" Tejas is.

FOC by now has become just a term, IAF has continuously moved goal posts every time Tejas was ready as per their standards.

As I said most fighters only get "ready" after they are inducted.

you are comparing an apple with oranges. engine,radar,control system constitutes the major parts of aircraft. the difficult ones. you can't take number of components and find percentage.

Difficulty of a subsystem doesn't constitute its percentage either.
Which is why engines and radars don't make majority of a fighter, and btw Tejas' radar is jointly developed, and so are the LRUs.
As for the "control systems", Fly by wire system, Electronic warfare, displays, airframe etc are indigenous.

@nair why the -ve?

 

[fatman17]

India Took a Shocking 33 Years to Develop a Jet Fighter (And It’s Still Not Ready for Combat)

Dave Majumdar

November 23, 2016

The Indian government is proposing to export its Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) Tejas light combat aircraft to other Asian nations. New Delhi hopes that the indigenously developed fighter’s relatively simple design and potentially low maintenance costs will be a selling point for the jet. But India’s prospects for selling the its “new” fighter are highly dubious.

“The government proposes to export the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas to other countries. In this connection preliminary discussions have been held with a few friendly countries,” reads a statement from Indian defense ministerShri Manohar Parrikar. “Presently, HAL has established facilities for manufacturing and delivery of 8 LCA per annum. There is a plan to ramp up the production rate from 8 to 16 Aircraft per annum progressively by 2019-20.”

It’s unclear which potential customers might be interested in the Tejas, though New Delhi has been trying to market the jet overseas with an appearance at theBahrain air show earlier this year. But given that India has been trying to develop the Tejas since the 1980s without delivering a viable combat aircraft, it is highly doubtful that any of New Delhi’s allies would be willing to purchase such a fighter. Moreover, even after more than 33 years of development, the Tejas continues to be plagued with problems—though developers believe that they can resolve outstanding issues with the aircraft within a year. “I told them that all shortcomings should be fulfilled and the plane should be ready in a year,” Parrikar told the Hindustan Times on Nov. 20.

Nonetheless, New Delhi continues to assert that the Tejas offers performance comparable to France’s Dassault Rafale. “This is a plane which is completely indigenously manufactured and can compete with any other fighter plane in the world. It is as capable as the Rafale. Only this is a light combat aircraft (LCA),” Parrikar told the Hindustan Times. “Only a 3.5 ton missile can be carried on it, Rafale on the other hand can carry a nine ton (payload). This plane can fly at the rate of 450Kms, Rafale can run 900Kms because it has twin engines.”

Despite, India’s bold claims, the generally unimpressive Tejas is not in the same league as other comparable aircraft in the export fighter market. The Swedish Saab JAS-39 Gripen and even upgraded older model F-16s and F/A-18s generally offer superior performance for comparable and sometimes even lower prices. Moreover, the Tejas—with a hodgepodge of technologies drawn from Israel, France, Russia and the United States, among others—would be a nightmare to clear for export.

Despite being billed as an indigenous aircraft, roughly 25 percent of the current Mk-1 version of the aircraft is built from imported components. While that might seem fairly low, those components are the core of what makes a fighter a fighter. Imported systems on the Tejas include the Israel Aerospace Industries/ELTA EL/M-2032 radar, an Elbit helmet-mounted cueing system, a British-made Martin Baker ejection seat and an American General Electric F404 afterburning turbofan. Additionally, many of the jet’s weapons—such as the GSh-23 23 mm cannon—are of Russian origin. Indeed, the very fact that the Tejas is equipped with a U.S. engine means that Washington has a veto on which nations New Delhi can offer the aircraft to for sale. Thus, a potential customer might be better served to simply purchase a used F-16 or F/A-18—which are far better jets with a far more attractive package of weapons (not to mention political clout).

Meanwhile, India recently ordered 83 more Tejas Mk-1A jets, a slightly refined version of the current Mk-1 aircraft, of which 20 are on order. The Tejas Mk-1A will replace the current mechanically-scanned radar with a new Israel Aerospace Industries/ELTA EL/M-2052 active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar, a new electronic warfare pod and a Cobham in-flight refueling probe. There are also a host of other improvements to correct the deficiencies found on the original Mk-1.

New Delhi is continuing to refine the aging Tejas design with the Mk-II version, which is set to make its debut in 2025. The new version of the jet will be equipped with the 22,000-pound thrust class General Electric F414 engine, which was originally developed for the Boeing F/A-18 Super Hornet. However, the Indians are attempting to revive the failed Kaveri indigenous engine that was originally slated to power the Tejas before it became glaringly apparent that it was not up to the task. The France’s Snecma is working with the Indians to certify the Kaveri engine for the flight of a Tejas light combat aircraft prototype in 2018.

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