India to spend $3 billion for 3 more Talwar-class frigates

[S-DUCT]

@Chinese member:There is no point comparing indian and chinese ship building capability. When our GDP nominal touches 8 Trillion doller ,our shipbuilding capacity will be equal to that china(that was in 2012).Till then, please don't spoil our thread.

ON TOPIC: When P17A class frigate costs less than a billion,I don't know why IN is going for these.IMO,IN should increase P-17A to 10 and scrap these additional orders.

 

[Shinigami]

yes, but it looks like state of the art ship-breaking yard

what do u have to say about the finished product, pak?

 

[Viet]

For $1bn, shouldn´t you get a destroyer?

 

[danger007]

For $1bn, shouldn´t you get a destroyer?

our frigates is destroyers for some NAVY'S.... if you go to the MMRCA thread's .... some quote the cost of MMRCA is 10B$ and some 12b$ and some quoted it 20 B$.... the official amount is yet unknown...

@some member who is starting D!cK measuring competition... please move away from the thread... we are not interested to listen your $hitty things in this thread...

 

[Koovie]

@Chinese member:There is no point comparing indian and chinese ship building capability. When our GDP nominal touches 8 Trillion doller ,our shipbuilding capacity will be equal to that china(that was in 2012).Till then, please don't spoil our thread.

ON TOPIC: When P17A class frigate costs less than a billion,I don't know why IN is going for these.IMO,IN should increase P-17A to 10 and scrap these additional orders.

Because all Indian shipyards are fully booked for the next decade.

 

[IND151]

Two Important Points:

1. More Stealthier Design Based on Krivak-IV Frigates & addition of BrahMos.

2. 2006 ordered ships are delivered by 2013 (all three) i.e. 7 years, expect this follow-on order to be completed before 2020.

Thats good

Talwars are already good stealth platform

BTW 1 billion per ship is too much. I thnik

 

[IND151]

Fair enough. But we don't exactly know the details of what goodies will be inside the follow on Talwar class. Who is to say that Russians haven't come up some AegisSki of their own.

Needless to say the $3 Billion figure is still speculative. It could be less, or the deal could include more than what meets the eyes.

exactly. it seems IN is going to buy something else too which is not mentioned

 

[IND151]

Is a destroyer bigger faster better armed ship* and a frigate* is smaller lesser armed* and slower...have I got it right or is there more to it? @arp2041

frigates are relatively smaller and agile warships compared to destroyers

Modern frigates are related to earlier frigates only by name. The term "frigate" was readopted during World War II by the Royal Navy to describe a new type of anti-submarine escort vessel that was larger than a corvette, smaller than a destroyer, and were about equal in size and capability with the American destroyer escort. The frigate was introduced to remedy some of the shortcomings inherent in the corvette design: limited armament, a hull form not suited to open-ocean work, a single shaft which limited speed and maneuverability, and a lack of range.

 

[IND151]

@arp2041 The reason is actually pretty simple, our shipyards needed to be vacated of the frigate orders for two reasons:-

1) After the roaring success of the Shivalik Class Stealth frigate the IN felt that another such patently heavy frigate is feasible only if it comes out with all the bells and whistles. Mind you, the superstructure of the Shivalik is as stealthy as stealthy can get but the masts and the uncovered deck are spoilers. The P-17A Project will rectify this with a flush deck and completely refined mast with integrated sensors.

2) To do the above, and to progress with such a critical project the aforementioned shipyards needed to be upgraded. Which, if you read the news was completed just last year, I'll dig up the articles I had on the completion of the said major upgrades and post them later.

In the mean time a lighter albeit equally armed alternative was required and ergo the Talwar Class. Mind you, this is not a stop gap due to unavailability of indigenous articles but rather a stop gap meant to cover for the lead time and seed investment that have been done in our shipbuilding sector so as to speed up our projects such as the P-17A all the while maintaining some of the IN's force levels at sea as fa as principle surface combatants go.

you are referring to this

A humming construction site in Mumbai’s Mazagon Dock Ltd (MDL) holds the promise of a new era in warship building in India. Everything about this emerging new shipyard is enormous: the 200-metre-long workshop; a Goliath crane that dwarfs everything around; and an expansive “wet basin”, which is an enclosed harbour that will comfortably house two large warships.


This is MDL’s new Rs 826 crore “modular” shipyard that is expected to slash down the time taken to build warships for the Indian Navy. Defence shipyards currently take over ten years to build major warships like destroyers, frigates and corvettes. When the new yard is commissioned in June 2013, frigates will be built in 60 months; destroyers will take 72 months.

“The capability to lift 300 tonnes is what makes modular shipbuilding possible. For decades, we have worked with 40-tonne cranes,” explains Battacharjee.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian...rds-techniques-speed-up-warship-building.html

 

[Dillinger]

you are referring to this



http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian...rds-techniques-speed-up-warship-building.html

YES! Thanks yaara!

 

[arp2041]

exactly. it seems IN is going to buy something else too which is not mentioned

How about what @RISING SUN was talking about earlier??

$2billion for 3 follow-on frigates + $1billion Akula-II (second one)

This is how we leased the first one - INS Viky + 16mig-29k + Akula II on lease (this wasn't disclosed until few years after that) in 2004.

 

[IND151]

Friends!

I love when i hear news like this where price is a little too much! 1B USD is way too much. IF the price was quoted in INR I would have accepted that cos USD has not appreciated since then therefore steep appreciation in price in USD terms looks fishy. So i did some research and came up with these 5 reasons for the hefty payment

- The Anti-Sub capability is below par in Krivak. They can be targeted by subs having torpedos beyond 10 Km range. The extra money is to include a better ASW capability that will then become the standard for rest of Indian ships. Various IN ships face a lack of powerful anti-sub punch so this follow on deal is a way to get hands on advanced ASW tech.

- Second Nuke boat will be funded using this additional money. (Why would navy wait for 3rd frigate to be delivered to place a follow on order. It makes little sense for prodcuction and suppllychain point of view. It would have made more sense for IN to place the order last year itself after having received 4 Krivaks. They are waiting for russians to come back with the quote for second INS Chakra completion)

- They are not seeking help for second INS Arihant. Indians are fairly confident on the capabilities and their ability to deliver. The technology seed for advanced nuke subs has already been sown and DRDO doesn't need more help to expedite things.

- Brahmos is not the reason for hike in prices. A pack of 8 Brahmos vis-a vis Klub costs only approx. 10M USD more

- These ships might get the advanced Barak missile for Anti Air role. Some money will move into Israeli hands.

- There is one extremely important component that i am still researching about. I am not sure about it but will post once i learn more. It has something to do with rocket propelled torpedo tech!!!

More later!

informative expalnation

 

[Archie]

frankly even I smell an additional Akula in this deal

coz Tawars cant cost more than 2.1 Billion USD for 3 ships

 

[Nitin Tomer]

India gonna be ripped off by Russia

 

[RISING SUN]

There is great degree of confusions on the weight of P17.
1st- Standard: 5,300 tonnes
2nd- Full load: 6,200 tonnes
3rd- Total load: 4900 tonnes
5th- 6000 tonnes

Can any one confirm what is the actual wight? If poster can provide reliable links, that will be appreciated. Thanks.
As per my knowledge IN has restricted frigates well below 6000 tonnes for their own motives or whatever(it has something to do with Delhi class destroyers, that's what I have heard).