India to rush troops to Ladakh if no de-escalation on face-off

[Dillinger]

I am not well acquainted with the subject but just saying from what I have heard on NDTV, here is the link ??? ????? ?????? ?? ??? ??? ?????????? Video: NDTV.com

even mr.bakshi has said who they came in & consolidated their hold & ajay shukla is also saying this that they still occupy the place till this day

??? ????? ?????? ?? ??? ??? ?????????? Video: NDTV.com

That's the area being referred to in the link you provided....its smack dab on the MacMahon line..which China disputes..it rankles us that they've consolidated their presence by actually putting up a post there some ditance from our positions and it rankles them that we hold Arunachal since their territorial claim (mind you which is different from the claim lines of the LAC) involves all of Arunachal..till the southern most part...leaving a sliver of south east Arunachal out.

They hold Askai Chin and we Arunachal..both have conflicting territorial claims and even conflicting version of the LAC ergo the tensions and the oft repeated incursions respectively.

@Dillinger

Check the link @third eye just posted , very confusing chain of events it is reporting .

I was under the impression that no fighting took place , but it says they " engaged " .

This wasn't the only tent erected inside the LAC .

Engaged as in shadowing..not a gunfight..conflicting patrols is one thing..shadowing a patrol aggressively while maintaining a tenuously small distance another..dude there are 30+ men, you wanna fit them in one tent? They first pitched in and then dismantled the tent and pitched off at a distance again..adding to the bafflement on this side. Odd behavior.

 

[Secur]

Engaged as in shadowing..not a gunfight..conflicting patrols is one thing..shadowing a patrol aggressively while maintaining a tenuously small distance another..dude there are 30+ men, you wanna fit them in one tent? They first pitched in and then dismantled the tent and pitched off at a distance again..adding to the bafflement on this side. Odd behavior.

Well , an engagement can be of various sorts , doesn't necessarily meaning a gun fight which would have made headline at the very least . Well there are 3 tents , as of now , they used diversion to get these men inside . But still I wonder , how poorly guarded is LAC that PLA came in 10 km inside without no one discovering it for hours ?

 

[Dillinger]

Well , an engagement can be of various sorts , doesn't necessarily meaning a gun fight which would have made headline at the very least . Well there are 3 tents , as of now , they used diversion to get these men inside . But still I wonder , how poorly guarded is LAC that PLA came in 10 km inside without no one discovering it for hours ?

The LAC isn't "guarded", I told you there are intermittent posts and then patrolling occurs..but no such guarding happens..otherwise neither side would make such incursions so easily..the problem is that what they've done this time is contrary to the agreed mechanism signed upon at the highest levels in the 93 and 96 treaties..ergo the acrimony now.

 

[Secur]

The LAC isn't "guarded", I told you there are intermittent posts and then patrolling occurs..but no such guarding happens..otherwise neither side would make such incursions so easily..the problem is that what they've done this time is contrary to the agreed mechanism signed upon at the highest levels in the 93 and 96 treaties..ergo the acrimony now.

It has to be guarded somehow somewhere , mate ! Cm'on you are portraying a sort of Durand Line like situation now . There are posts and the patrols do move , so its guarded , but still how much open is the border ? Going by that , even the IB is quite the same minus the difference in perception . Actually , I am yet to hear a similar sort of story from the Indian side , this time otherwise . But I still haven't and from what I perceive of your media , it isn't their modus operandi of downplaying things .

 

[Dillinger]

It has to be guarded somehow somewhere , mate ! Cm'on you are portraying a sort of Durand Line like situation now . There are posts and the patrols do move , so its guarded , but still how much open is the border ? Going by that , even the IB is quite the same minus the difference in perception . Actually , I am yet to hear a similar sort of story from the Indian side , this time otherwise . But I still haven't and from what I perceive of your media , it isn't their modus operandi of downplaying things .

hahahaha our media never puts out anything that portrays us as the violators.. The Chinese have only once released a statement enumerating our breaches and incursions..otherwise certain patrols have been known to reach a shout away from chip chap valley too from our side.

Its like the IB with patrolling minus the barbed wire..ergo the incursions..both sides claim something different when it comes to claim lines and moreover other than that both sides claim territory which extends way beyond the claim lines.

The problem though with the reports we get to read is that they are written largely by people who know nothing of the terrain..there was a thread just yesterday on the Indian defense section here...about the airmobile nature of the PLA RRFs- couldn't stop laughing..it was written by some fellow...

Here are some gems..

"Chinese ASF is noted for its use of powered parachutes and paragliders in mountainous areas. It is also worth mentioning that these SFs are specially trained for carrying out decapitating strikes against high value civilian and non-civilian targets in the adversary's rear. Additionally, they are trained and equipped to carry out long duration raids spanning four hours or more."

Anyone who uses para-gliders over those mountains is dead..he's not going to die..he's dead already...have you ever been that high..felt the winds blowing? Hepters cannot be controlled in those gusts..something we found out during Kargil with our Mi-17s (same hepters which are used by the PLA btw)...a glider will dash against the rocks and you'll be bug splatter.

as to airmobile ops..In real-life one has to consider the fact that Tawang’s high-altitude location, the PLA’s Mi-171E or Mi-17V-5 helicopters will find it impossible to cruise over the Thagla Ridge at full-load, or even attempt an ingress via the Chumbi Valley opposite Sikkim without being detected. incursions are one thing..deploying in brigade level troops in a heliborne assault another. That last bit came from PSK- I wanted a confirmation coz I smelt BS.

You need to know the terrain..both in Ladakh/Leh and Arunachal..ironically my trips there have gotten me better knowledge on that than even some of the journalists currently writing up on this.

 

[Dandpatta]

The whole episode (or the number of such incursion episodes) tell me one thing . "Poke and see" the reactions. Use the reactions to your advantage and then build strategies around these deduced advantages. To that effect, the Chinese test the waters. I hope the Indian side understand this as well, instead of just reacting. T

Let's hope this is resolved i/o long stand off.

 

[Secur]

hahahaha our media never puts out anything that portrays us as the violators.. The Chinese have only once released a statement enumerating our breaches and incursions..otherwise certain patrols have been known to reach a shout away from chip chap valley too from our side.

Its like the IB with patrolling minus the barbed wire..ergo the incursions..both sides claim something different when it comes to claim lines and moreover other than that both sides claim territory which extends way beyond the claim lines.

The problem though with the reports we get to read is that they are written largely by people who know nothing of the terrain..there was a thread just yesterday on the Indian defense section here...about the airmobile nature of the PLA RRFs- couldn't stop laughing..it was written by some fellow...

Here are some gems..

"Chinese ASF is noted for its use of powered parachutes and paragliders in mountainous areas. It is also worth mentioning that these SFs are specially trained for carrying out decapitating strikes against high value civilian and non-civilian targets in the adversary's rear. Additionally, they are trained and equipped to carry out long duration raids spanning four hours or more."

Anyone who uses para-gliders over those mountains is dead..he's not going to die..he's dead already...have you ever been that high..felt the winds blowing? Hepters cannot be controlled in those gusts..something we found out during Kargil with our Mi-17s (same hepters which are used by the PLA btw)...a glider will dash against the rocks and you'll be bug splatter.

as to airmobile ops..In real-life one has to consider the fact that Tawang’s high-altitude location, the PLA’s Mi-171E or Mi-17V-5 helicopters will find it impossible to cruise over the Thagla Ridge at full-load, or even attempt an ingress via the Chumbi Valley opposite Sikkim without being detected. incursions are one thing..deploying in brigade level troops in a heliborne assault another. That last bit came from PSK- I wanted a confirmation coz I smelt BS.

You need to know the terrain..both in Ladakh/Leh and Arunachal..ironically my trips there have gotten me better knowledge on that even some of the journalists currently writing up on this.

Well , it does . I have seen it done so , mate I know about the Chinese report submitted to the Indian authorities about some 200 odd incursions in various sectors along LAC . But knowing big countries and the sort of politics they play , I have taken it with a pinch of salt seeing your past behavior with the PLA . Of course , it happens from your side too but I haven't seen a single report which is very strange !

You are making it complicated , Dillinger ! It still the same as a border in a difficult terrain but with different perceptions , not meaning that it isn't guarded , but I wonder how your patrols do not usually collide with each other on daily basis with so much diverse maps on both sides showing large tracts of territory as others .

Journalist of the subcontinent aren't known for their accuracy on defense matters , they rely on official reports and then make the rest of it up to match with the data . Well its really hilarious specially the " decapitating strikes against targets from air " even more so in mountainous areas Knowing the sudden variation that can occur from the wind in such areas and the terrain which is extremely diverse at a km's distance even , it is an impossibility by all means .

Actually I know the terrain of the Northern Areas so I think I understand the current situation , correct me if I am wrong , the North East India isn't very different , right ?

 

[Dillinger]

Well , it does . I have seen it done so , mate I know about the Chinese report submitted to the Indian authorities about some 200 odd incursions in various sectors along LAC . But knowing big countries and the sort of politics they play , I have taken it with a pinch of salt seeing your past behavior with the PLA . Of course , it happens from your side too but I haven't seen a single report which is very strange !

You are making it complicated , Dillinger ! It still the same as a border in a difficult terrain but with different perceptions , not meaning that it isn't guarded , but I wonder how your patrols do not usually collide with each other on daily basis with so much diverse maps on both sides showing large tracts of territory as others .

Journalist of the subcontinent aren't known for their accuracy on defense matters , they rely on official reports and then make the rest of it up to match with the data . Well its really hilarious specially the " decapitating strikes against targets from air " even more so in mountainous areas Knowing the sudden variation that can occur from the wind in such areas and the terrain which is extremely diverse at a km's distance even , it is an impossibility by all means .

Actually I know the terrain of the Northern Areas so I think I understand the current situation , correct me if I am wrong , the North East India isn't very different , right ?

Because we don't patrol up to the edge of the territories we claim..not even to a 1000th part of it..I told you there is the LAC as shown on generic maps..then there is the LAC which both sides propound and then there are the territorial claims. Our patrols do often meet..but we have a treaty for that...I told you pro forma protests are lodged by both sides and then its business as usual..that's why this particular incident is so ODD! Yaara the first step for guarding and territory denial is some form of demarcation..for eg on the LOC..there are no differing perceptions..signed maps have been exchanged..so now you wire it up and guard it..but when you're patrolling through an area without any physical markers then you're just a ground dominance patrol..ALSO its not as if all the areas are patrolable/habitable to begin with..soldiers move about and move on..you and I could enter Chumbi valley tomorrow without being detected for the better part of the week..when we do get caught though..

Yaara sift through reports on Indian violations..ceasefire violations across the LOC..you will find none in any Indian source..when the incident becomes too obvious..that is to say some news channel picks it up ONLY then will everyone hop on but even so the blame will solely be pinned on Pak....devious we have always been and not always truthful.

But seriously..how do you fancy a 40 pound combat load..a hand-glider and jagged peaks? if the PLA ever reads that article..half of them might die laughing.

Ya the terrain is similar just way more green in NE...and a bucket load more valleys after the mountains..why do you think we built the LCH? See how regular hepters perform at high alts if they are also meant to carry any useful combat load.

 

[Secur]

@Dillinger Are there detailed maps present on both sides of the border showing their respective perceptions of the LAC ?

If yes , are they available in public domain ?

 

[Dillinger]

@Dillinger Are there detailed maps present on both sides of the border showing their respective perceptions of the LAC ?

If yes , are they available in public domain ?

They exist but they are not available in the public domain as far as I know.

 

[k7x]

" What goes around comes around" One day they will be in different situation than thi.

 

[Psyops]

" What goes around comes around" One day they will be in different situation than thi.

While you dream we make a mockery of your military AGAIN!

 

[Secur]

They exist but they are not available in the public domain as far as I know.

Well , a detailed search on Google yielded nothing of substance for me unfortunately .

 

[Sedqal]

Man lets see how far Manmohan goes China is correct though India is a troublesome neighbor.

 

[HongWu]

When our bombs start pounding Indian Army, Pakistan should get ready to make a second front. All the oppressed people of Kashmir should rebel.