India To Purchase Two More Israeli Surveillance Aircraft

[ni8mare]

Despite the name the Akash NG/2 is NOT going to be based on the Akash Mk.1 but an entirely new missile design and why couldn't that be based on the DRDO's exemplory work on the ASTRA? As @PARIKRAMA has pointed out, during devlopmental trails for the A2A ASTRA the DRDO had conducted a number of ground tests for the missile and have plenty of performance parameters logged away of that particualr system so they have a solid base on which to work on- just like the SPYDER system simply took A2A missiles (Derby and Python) and adopted them for a SAM role. Surely this is a logical way of approaching the Akash NG/2?

Completely agreed with you ...

QRSAM- Maitri (for IA, IN and IAF)-1 to 15km
MRSAM- BARAK-8 (for IA,IAF and IN- designated LR-SAM by IN)- upto 90km
LRSAM- BARAK-8ER (for IA,IAF and IN)- upto 120-140km
VLRSAM- DRDO's long range/BARAK-8NG-up to 250-300km

just think P18 DDG with these Air defence ...........

 

[Abingdonboy]

just think P18 DDG with these Air defence ...........

Any info on that vessel? Is it offically mentioned anywhere or just online bro?

I'm sure the P-15Bs are going to get some more VLUs from day one so the capabilties are going to increase of that sub-class (one of the biggest criticisms of the P-15A) but I still think the IN needs something even larger and with 60+ ready to fire long range SAM- BARAK-8ER ideally and perhaps 20 QR/SRSAM (Maitri). That would be a increidbly formidable air defence ship, add 32 anti-ship/land attack missiles (16 Brahmos +16 Nirbhay) (not to mention the EL//M-2248 MF-STAR and RAN-40L VSR) and you have the most deadly warship outside of the USN.

The P-15B will already have 32 VLUs for the Brahmos (and Nirbhay) and 48 SAM VLUs so it isn't a huge jump, the P-18 would probably be close to 10,000 tons.

@PARIKRAMA

 

[ni8mare]

The Maitri is entirely seperate IMO (and deserves its commitment from the forces) but I agree with you in regards to the Akash NG and VL-ASTRA covering the same patch

I agree with you one this bold part.....but my point is if we are making maitri AN ADVANCE SYSTEM in lets say 4 yrs from now just for IN who will only purchase around 1000 missiles will it is not wasteful (money and R&D) for letting go of advanced system without fully using its potential .....or getting it inducted in other services

just think IAF/IA ordering 2000 missiles each that's 4000 missiles ...think amount of cost saving not to mention as @PARIKRAMA pointed out that india going to own the system fully ............
Now if DRDO utilise Maitri R&D into AKASH NG/ASTRA-VL then it will be a very good job........
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nope what you said i know the same may be @PARIKRAMA can shed some light

Any info on that vessel? Is it offically mentioned anywhere or just online bro?

I'm sure the P-15Bs are going to get some more VLUs from day one so the capabilties are going to increase of that sub-class (one of the biggest criticisms of the P-15A) but I still think the IN needs something even larger and with 60+ ready to fire long range SAM- BARAK-8ER ideally and perhaps 20 QR/SRSAM (Maitri). That would be a increidbly formidable air defence ship, add 32 anti-ship/land attack missiles (16 Brahmos +16 Nirbhay) (not to mention the EL//M-2248 MF-STAR and RAN-40L VSR) and you have the most deadly warship outside of the USN.

The P-15B will already have 32 VLUs for the Brahmos (and Nirbhay) and 48 SAM VLUs so it isn't a huge jump, the P-18 would probably be close to 10,000 tons.

@PARIKRAMA

 

[Abingdonboy]

I agree with you one this bold part.....but my point is if we are making maitri AN ADVANCE SYSTEM in lets say 4 yrs from now just for IN who will only purchase around 1000 missiles will it is not wasteful (money and R&D) for letting go of advanced system without fully using its potential .....or getting it inducted in other services

It's really quite hard to estimate numbers right now as these things are always open to fluctuations but considering the way the Indian military is spending there is ample room for huge orders for all such systems. The IA and IN will be guarenteed operators of the Maitri, the IAF may get on board at a later date but even with the IA and IN there is a huge requirement for the Maitri so I don't think there will be much wasting of R&D.

Now if DRDO utilise Maitri R&D into AKASH NG/ASTRA-VL then it will be a very good job........

That will surely happen, India is getting critical ToT from France for seekers and TVC and combining this with their expereince on the Akash 1 and Astra will surely allow for a natural progression of system development.

 

[ni8mare]

It's really quite hard to estimate numbers right now as these things are always open to fluctuations but considering the way the Indian military is spending there is ample room for huge orders for all such systems. The IA and IN will be guarenteed operators of the Maitri, the IAF may get on board at a later date but even with the IA and IN there is a huge requirement for the Maitri so I don't think there will be much wasting of R&D.



That will surely happen, India is getting critical ToT from France for seekers and TVC and combining this with their expereince on the Akash 1 and Astra will surely allow for a natural progression of system development.

Lets see what happens

 

[nik141993]

Can barak 8 be used for defence against SRBM like nasar & MRBM other than cruise missile & could their be a chance of future development of barak 8 into something like david sling which can even shoot down advance BM like iskander @PARIKRAMA @Abingdonboy

 

[Abingdonboy]

Can barak 8 be used for defence against SRBM like nasar & MRBM other than cruise missile & could their be a chance of future development of barak 8 into something like david sling which can even shoot down advance BM like iskander @PARIKRAMA @Abingdonboy

For BMD there is a seperate set of projects- the S400 and Indian BMD (based on PAD and AAD). Given their unique trajectories and unique charateristics they require dedicated systems to counter them. The PAD is designed for exo-atmospheric interception and can destroy BM at an altitude of 75-80km, the AAD is designed for endo-atmospheric interception at around 30km.


The BARAK-8 is best used against CMs and aircraft.

 

[PARIKRAMA]

As of now P15B says this from tender documents

Source

So Brahmos 8 x 2 = 16 Serial no 25
SM Launch Module thats SAM module 16x2 = 32 Serial No 26
SM Launch Module thats SAM module 16x2 = 32 Serial No 39
Ak 630 - 4 nos Serial No 34
Saluting Gun - 02 Serial No 35
Mareech torpedo defense system 02 nos Serial No 38
Main Gun 01 Serial No 57


In short major missiles
8x2 = 16 Brahmos
8x4 + 8x4 - 32+32 = 64 Barak 8
4 AK 630
Main gun 127 mm Oto melara
Mareech ATDS 02 nos

Dont know whats saluting gun serial No 35 .. can it be RBU 6000?

@Abingdonboy @ni8mare @MilSpec @Penguin @AUSTERLITZ @SpArK @Taygibay @Vauban
I think all of you will find this information very interesting

EDITED: to change whats the saluting gun part.. Still unconfirmed

 

[nik141993]

For BMD there is a seperate set of projects- the S400 and Indian BMD (based on PAD and AAD). Given their unique trajectories and unique charateristics they require dedicated systems to counter them. The PAD is designed for exo-atmospheric interception and can destroy BM at an altitude of 75-80km, the AAD is designed for endo-atmospheric interception at around 30km.


The BARAK-8 is best used against CMs and aircraft.

But how good be AAD against nasar which has only 60km range & very depress trajectory

 

[PARIKRAMA]

Btw i am one up against wikipedia

Visakhapatnam-class destroyer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

hahahhahaha
its not 48 but 64

 

[Abingdonboy]

Dont know whats saluting gun serial No 35

What it sounds like (lol):

A gun used to provide a ceremonial "salute"

I didn't know the IN actually carried these on baord their vessels though.

So Brahmos 8 x 2 = 16 Serial no 25

Interesting, as if you'll remember MDL's own documents (as of Feb 2016) now say 32 Brahmos:

But how good be AAD against nasar which has only 60km range & very depress trajectory

From what I understand about the Nasar's flight profile it will not be dissimilar to a conventional CM's (in the sense it does not fly very high) and thus the BARAK-8 will stand a very good chance against it with its onboard active seeker and intial giudance from very powerful radar systems.

Frankly, the Pakistanis are complete idiots for creating these sorts of WMDs that mimick tactical conventional weapons, it is opening the door to rapid escalation. I mean, 60km range? The blowback will hurt themselves just as much as it will hurt India, if not more so.

+ @PARIKRAMA in the above info from MDL, the P-15B's VSR is not specified what do you think it will be? I don't think it's going to be the LW-08 as on the P-15A. Do you think it's going to be the RAN-40L or something from DRDO perhaps? It would make sense to standardise the sensor suite across all major combatants- the EL/M-2248 MF-STAR is set in stone now (IAC-1, P-15A/B, P-17A etc etc) so has the IN showed us the compliment to it will be the RAN-40L with the IAC-1's sensor fitment?

 

[PARIKRAMA]

@Abingdonboy

IF we put 4 X Brahmos 8 cells then its 32 cells but then whats the number of Barak 8 as 02 deck will have to be realigned..

in the above info from MDL, the P-15B's VSR is not specified what do you think it will be? I don't think it's going to be the LW-08 as on the P-15A. Do you think it's going to be the RAN-40L or something from DRDO perhaps? It would make sense to standardise the sensor suite across all major combatants- the EL/M-2248 MF-STAR is set in stone now (IAC-1, P-15A/B, P-17A etc etc) so has the IN showed us the compliment to it will be the RAN-40L with the IAC-1's sensor fitment?

I am afraid chosen one is LW-08

 

[Abingdonboy]

I am afraid chosen one is LW-08

Argh, that's very disappointing if true, what's the source, SIPRI?

IF we put 4 X Brahmos 8 cells then its 32 cells but then whats the number of Barak 8 as 02 deck will have to be realigned..

The P-15B has been redesigned and will house more weaponary than the P-15As (it has been stretched a little) so it can have 32 Brahmos cells and 48-64 BARAK-8 (i'm not sure on the final number as of yet though bro).

 

[PARIKRAMA]

Argh, that's very disappointing if true, what's the source, SIPRI?



The P-15B has been redesigned and will house more weaponary than the P-15As (it has been stretched a little) so it can have 32 Brahmos cells and 48-64 BARAK-8 (i'm not sure on the final number as of yet though bro).

Ya SIPRI for LW-08

i am sure of 64 barak 8s.. I am yet confused for 16/32 Brahmos..

 

[Abingdonboy]

Ya SIPRI for LW-08

Well they've been wrong before

But I guess it would make sense to have maximum compatability for the P-15As and P-15Bs. They'll get something newer in their MLUs.

But what are your thoughts for the VSR going foreward? The IAC-1 seems to have set the precedent with the RAN-40L/MF-STAR combo.

i am sure of 64 barak 8s.. I am yet confused for 16/32 Brahmos..

It's coming from MDL itself so I would expect them to have the latest information, assuming all we know is correct- 64 BARAK-8 and 32 Brahmos is quite an upgrade over the P-15A.