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India to pay Russia for arms, ammo it sells to Afghanistan

its u pak members who make every thread related to India a discussion regarding toilets, poverty and other bs, the thing is u are last people who need to tell us about poverty and sanitation, do not try to derail every discussion thats goes on in threads related to India affairs
Show us where did I derailed a thread and started talking about toilets. Don't just pull things off you back side. Back up your claim.

If anything it's you who was moaning that people just dont discuss about toilets.

u guys just dont discuss about toilets,

So again I will ask you what's your obsession about toilets? Why shall we discuss toilets in a thread about weaponry?
 
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My emphasis was going with this thread's OP. I would rather not be dragged into arguments about who is supporting terrorism and where. India also has plenty to answer on that count.

So again.
Afghanistan as everybody can see, desperately needs heavy weaponry. The current equipment of the ANSF makes it at best an infantry. To qualify as a proper military they need to get armour, heavy artillery and fast jets to name just a few.
The news article claims India wants to buy Russian equipment for Afghanistan, but it doesn't give any detail. What I am asking here is why does India not provide the weapons that it is manufacturing Arjun and LCA are just two examples.
And if it is procuring equipment from Russia what equipment?

1) Afghanistan has no use for fast jets as of now. They don't have enemies in the air. For air to ground against insurgents, helicopter gunships are a much better option. A multirole combat aircraft's air to air abilities would not be used at all, and it will not have the ability to linger and loiter on the battlefield like helicopters can. Remember, they need CAS, not strategic or even tactical bombing. Yes they are an infantry, and their requirements are infantry-centric, because they are fighting taliban insurgents, not a military with airpower or bunkers.

2) How exactly do you propose India can ship tanks or heavy weaponry to Afgh? Even the US is finding it too expensive to ship their vehicles out of Afgh. Since Pakistan is not going to let India drive Arjuns or BMP-2s into Afgh through Pakistan, the alternate way would be to ship them to Iran and then drive them to Afghanistan. Or be smart and pay Russia to deliver these things for a fraction of the cost. That is why we are doing what we are doing. Shipping an Indian tank into Afgh would cost more than the tank itself.
 
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That depends on the wish list of Afghanistan and how much we can afford and how much things are at stake in Afghanistan.

The Afghan wish list is here. Have a look. This is from NDTV. You can check it here Afghanistan President Hamid Karzai to push India for arms wish-list | NDTV.com
Afghanistan President Hamid Karzai said he will push for heavy weaponry from India in his meeting with Prime Minister Manmohan Singh in New Delhi today. Afghanistan has asked for 150 battle tanks, field guns, howitzers and one squadron of attack helicopters.

Do you see tanks, field guns, howitzers and helicopters written. To help you I have highlighted it for you. I really hope this helps you read it better.
Read the article again.ANA is aan infantry force they need artilleries,long range guns and not tanks or aircrafts which are useless in counter insurgency operations.
Your thinking means jack.Weapons will be provided according to the wishlist of ANA and not on the basis of your thinking.

While you are advising me to read. You yourself are not too good at doing the same are you. This is what the OP says.
While Russia may separately supply its own range of Kalashnikovs, the Indian financing will largely focus on artillery guns, air support in the form of choppers and even armoured vehicles, including tanks.
Do you see tanks written there. If not you probably need better glasses.
 
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The Peace and prosperity is only need of Afghanistan
Stop use of Afghanistan for the trade of arms and ammunition
From our part, it's not trade - we are paying for it, so it's aid.

2 theories:

1- The government sucks donkey d*ck at churning out weapons of quality in time.
2- Russian military gears are something Afghans are familiar with owing to the olden days.
It's simply the cost of shipping things from India to Afgh - that is prohibitively expensive to do.
 
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1) Afghanistan has no use for fast jets as of now. They don't have enemies in the air. For air to ground against insurgents, helicopter gunships are a much better option. A multirole combat aircraft's air to air abilities would not be used at all, and it will not have the ability to linger and loiter on the battlefield like helicopters can. Remember, they need CAS, not strategic or even tactical bombing. Yes they are an infantry, and their requirements are infantry-centric, because they are fighting taliban insurgents, not a military with airpower or bunkers.

Every country needs an airforce especially one which is at war.
Helicopters are good but when you are outnumbered and outgunned in the field or for areas that are denied to you. You will need a fast jet to do the job for you. Tell me what are Americans doing there with there F-15, F-16s, heck they have even got B-52s to support ops in Afghanistan.
So if the current setup in Afghanistan to have any chance of survival they will need. Air units for ISR, medevac, logistics and ofcourse heavy bombing. That means both fixed wing and rotary assets.

2) How exactly do you propose India can ship tanks or heavy weaponry to Afgh? Even the US is finding it too expensive to ship their vehicles out of Afgh. Since Pakistan is not going to let India drive Arjuns or BMP-2s into Afgh through Pakistan, the alternate way would be to ship them to Iran and then drive them to Afghanistan. Or be smart and pay Russia to deliver these things for a fraction of the cost. That is why we are doing what we are doing. Shipping an Indian tank into Afgh would cost more than the tank itself.

You are spot on. From India to Afghanistan the easiest way for India to ship equipment is throw Iran.
And it's not going to cost you ridiculous amount of money to ship this equipment. If India can import tanks from Russia it's alot easier to transfer things from India to Afghanistan.
America's case is different. They can not use Iran because of political reasons. In Pakistan their convoys are constantly attacked again because of certain reasons that I don't want to discuss here.
India wouldn't face such problems in Iran.
 
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Every country needs an airforce especially one which is at war.
Helicopters are good but when you are outnumbered and outgunned in the field or for areas that are denied to you. You will need a fast jet to do the job for you. Tell me what are Americans doing there with there F-15, F-16s, heck they have even got B-52s to support ops in Afghanistan.
So if the current setup in Afghanistan to have any chance of survival they will need. Air units for ISR, medevac, logistics and ofcourse heavy bombing. That means both fixed wing and rotary assets.

That depends on who the country is at war with. Against talib insurgents, helicopters provide the best CAS at a fraction of the cost at which jets can. And they can do it a lot better - a jet will have to make several passes and probably still not be able to spot individual riflemen on the ground. OTOH, a helicopter can linger over the battlefield and pick off enemies at will.

Americans fight in a very different way - they don't mind shooting a hellfire missile to kill one insurgent. Other countries cannot afford to do things that way. ISR (against insurgent riflemen, not enemy radar complexes), medevac and logistics (transporting soldiers and material) are all best done by choppers, not combat jets. In fact I don't see how LCAs or migs can do any of those at all.

You are spot on. From India to Afghanistan the easiest way for India to ship equipment is throw Iran.
And it's not going to cost you ridiculous amount of money to ship this equipment. If India can import tanks from Russia it's alot easier to transfer things from India to Afghanistan.
America's case is different. They can not use Iran because of political reasons. In Pakistan their convoys are constantly attacked again because of certain reasons that I don't want to discuss here.
India wouldn't face such problems in Iran.

Russia can ship tanks directly from Russia to India. They don't need to drive them through another country. But Afgh is landlocked. So we will need to transport by sea and then by land. It is simpler and cheaper to pay Russia.
 
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India is giving what it can to stabilize Afghanistan and defeat Taliban.
Can't say the same about Pakistan though...

Once Afghanistan is safe and Indian MIC matures, we can offer bigger and better things.
As things stand, our PSUs are not able to fulfill our domestic needs on time, let alone foreign exports.
 
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more weapons in the hand of Afghani Taliban best of luck buddy we all know how afghani Talibans are capturing the bases and weapons from Afghan Army
 
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That depends on who the country is at war with. Against talib insurgents, helicopters provide the best CAS at a fraction of the cost at which jets can. And they can do it a lot better - a jet will have to make several passes and probably still not be able to spot individual riflemen on the ground. OTOH, a helicopter can linger over the battlefield and pick off enemies at will.

In an insurgency like the one in Afghanistan you need all the advantage that you can get. There are multiple scenarios where you will need fighter jets. I will give you some examples to let you understand. Obviously your understanding of intense guerrilla insurgency is limited. So let me help you here.
1) Insurgency is about hit and run attacks. What an insurgent force want to do is create dominance over an area that it targets. As a regular army you will be tasked to main check points, maintain garrisons and have logistical nodes. They are all prime targets for an insurgent force. They will attack with more and heavier forces than are deployed at a checkpoint or a small remote garrison. Here every second counts, by the time you scramble helicopters it will already be too late. Helicopters are slow moving and carry less fire power. A fighter jet on the other hand is faster thus will take less time to get to any given area drop bombs and clear larger areas. It also will carry heavier weaponry.

2) Helicopters are more prone to ground fire. Combat fighter/bombers on the other hand being faster and especially when using laser guided or satellite guided munitions fly a lot higher. Thus are less prone to ManPADs and AAA fire.

3) Helicopters won't be able to perform air defense duties. You need fighter jets to defend your airspace and deny the enemy the use of your air space.
These three points are just a starter for an argument why it's better to have fighter jets, fighting any conflict. And thatswhy Afghanistan desperately needs jets like LCA or Migs.

Americans fight in a very different way - they don't mind shooting a hellfire missile to kill one insurgent. Other countries cannot afford to do things that way. ISR (against insurgent riflemen, not enemy radar complexes), medevac and logistics (transporting soldiers and material) are all best done by choppers, not combat jets. In fact I don't see how LCAs or migs can do any of those at all.

Now I will come to your point about ISR, medevac and logistics.
You seem to have a very limited idea about guerrilla warfare. ISR is not primarily there to identify individual rifleman ( although in a firefight you try and identify enemy lines with it). It is your eyes and ears over areas which are either contested or denied to you. ISR assets will fly high and will give you info about enemy activities both on the ground and on the airwaves. Insurgency is not about battle lines. You want to know where is going to strike, where it is going to plant IEDs, where it is getting it's supplies from and the routes its taking and for all that you need ISR assets.
Medevac is done in the field by choppers but only till field hospitals mostly. Same goes for logistics you will need choppers for the proverbial last mile but from airbase to airbase it has to be done with cargo planes.

Russia can ship tanks directly from Russia to India. They don't need to drive them through another country. But Afgh is landlocked. So we will need to transport by sea and then by land. It is simpler and cheaper to pay Russia.

For tanks. Russia will have to deliver it through third countries i-e Tajikistan or Uzbekistan the same way India will have to supply it through Iran. The route is not that different. The only real problem is the availability and reliability issues of Indian assets as was identified by @Tshering22
 
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more weapons in the hand of Afghani Taliban best of luck buddy we all know how afghani Talibans are capturing the bases and weapons from Afghan Army

Oh don't worry, these weapons are for attacking bases inside Pakistan. :azn:

ANA can get away with it because they know you will never remove your focus from our border. This simply means that they can shoot their way in, achieve their objective and stroll back waving their weapons and you won't do anything.
 
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Oh don't worry, these weapons are for attacking bases inside Pakistan. :azn:

ANA can get away with it because they know you will never remove your focus from our border. This simply means that they can shoot their way in, achieve their objective and stroll back waving their weapons and you won't do anything.
let our proxy do our work on Afghan side we are least bothered :pakistan: and secondly Afghan army tried once in 1980s but were badly fucked by FC and Tribal people
 
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Afghans should ask the latest equipment from Russia like Mi-17s and other needed equipment from Russia and India should be paying $$ Billions to Russians.
 
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let our proxy do our work on Afghan side we are least bothered :pakistan: and secondly Afghan army tried once in 1980s but were badly fucked by FC and Tribal people

There were a lot of different things at that time going on. Your country, for example, still was a country compared to the existing times when there are multiple centres of power, bomb blasts happening as if it is a normal routine, economic crisis like never before and worst of all, you have foreign military units (secret intel and stuff) inside your country this time without your consent.

Afghan army tried once when you were free and outsourced your national governance to USA.

This time the tables have turned. Afghans and even your local BLA folks know that you will never focus troops on the northern and southern border but will keep your soldiers at our border. So they are going to have a free ride.

Afghans should ask the latest equipment from Russia like Mi-17s and other needed equipment from Russia and India should be paying $$ Billions to Russians.

We are. Mi-17s are the point, sonny jim. There is always a 'tri-lateral' agreement in such deals.

Glad you find our help to Afghanistan as a welcome.
 
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There were a lot of different things at that time going on. Your country, for example, still was a country compared to the existing times when there are multiple centres of power, bomb blasts happening as if it is a normal routine, economic crisis like never before and worst of all, you have foreign military units (secret intel and stuff) inside your country this time without your consent.

Afghan army tried once when you were free and outsourced your national governance to USA.

This time the tables have turned. Afghans and even your local BLA folks know that you will never focus troops on the northern and southern border but will keep your soldiers at our border. So they are going to have a free ride.



We are. Mi-17s are the point, sonny jim. There is always a 'tri-lateral' agreement in such deals.

Glad you find our help to Afghanistan as a welcome.
i said our proxy it obviously means that our troops will not attack them and yea free hand to BLA hhahhahah nice joke every day we see dozens of BLA members get butchered in mountains of Balochistan by FC they are getting a free ride han :azn: and secondly u people are in our backyard and what do u think we dont have any contacts with future power holder in Afghanistan or we dont have any of our agents in Afghan military then u people are ignorant thats it .. why does ur RAW cry and ask its daddy america to keep control on ISI?? something big must be going on in Afghanistan buddy in 2007 Gen pervez musharraf was briefed by the ISI about the situation in afghanistan and then ISI chief said almost 50 percent of afghanistan is controlled by Haqqani and Kandhari taliban and NATO pay them certain amount of money to stop them from attacking their Convoys when moving from one place to another ... and now its 2014 less US troops more Haqqani fighters so everybody knows who is winning in Afghanistan ... i m just concerned that Abdullah Abdullah might face the same fate as that of najeebullah
 
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i said our proxy it obviously means that our troops will not attack them and yea free hand to BLA hhahhahah nice joke every day we see dozens of BLA members get butchered in mountains of Balochistan by FC they are getting a free ride han :azn: and secondly u people are in our backyard and what do u think we dont have any contacts with future power holder in Afghanistan or we dont have any of our agents in Afghan military then u people are ignorant thats it .. why does ur RAW cry and ask its daddy america to keep control on ISI?? something big must be going on in Afghanistan buddy in 2007 Gen pervez musharraf was briefed by the ISI about the situation in afghanistan and then ISI chief said almost 50 percent of afghanistan is controlled by Haqqani and Kandhari taliban and NATO pay them certain amount of money to stop them from attacking their Convoys when moving from one place to another ... and now its 2014 less US troops more Haqqani fighters so everybody knows who is winning in Afghanistan ... i m just concerned that Abdullah Abdullah might face the same fate as that of najeebullah

BLA's free hand will not happen because of us but a simple fact that you cannot use your military anywhere in considerable size than our borders. Your generals are so egoistic and short-sighted that they will not change the current position of 'India-the threat' even if Russia was to hypothetically invade you from the north.

Please don't embarrass yourself by mentioning different tribal showdowns as a victory. he LeI, AuI, Haqqanis etc are all finishing each other off more than actually forming a potent force against NATO or the influences that will replace US troops in Afghanistan.

The point is, BRICS have an interest in Afghanistan. While we are not sending combat soldiers, be assured that we, the Russians and the Chinese want a stable Afghanistan and will do our best to make sure. Chinese have an equally important stake in Afghanistan's many copper mines while we have invested a huge amount of money. Add Russian interests and concerns in the country via its virtual province Tajikistan, and you have a whole new level.

This is geopolitics mate: not some religio-social body. While the internet Chinese may appreciate you, realities suggest a different path.

Who will you kill? Chinese soldiers who protect Chinese mines and workers? Russian units protecting their investments? Or our fellows under a very, very different upcoming leadership>?
 
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