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India to outpace China by 2030: US intelligence report

May I ask exactly what you think I'm assuming? That India has structural problems? That Indian growth rate will also slow down once its economic size approaches China's size? Are you saying these are unreasonable assumptions?

Assumption 1: So China would never overtake US, as China would slow down to 1-2% when it closes on to US? But you obviously dont think so in case of China.

Maybe the above doesn't apply to China but only India.

While I agree nobody stays at the top forever and economies and World powers rise and fall, what immutable law says that India will inevitably grow and assume economic preeminence?
Assumption 2: Bro nothing is inevitable. even China taking over US is not inevitable.

In normal circumstances India would overtake.

You accuse me of making wild assumptions but this assumption that India will continue to increase in growth and China stagnates is equally without foundation.
Assumption 3 (the biggest and most unsound)

When China can grow much faster then US even when China is inching much closer to US. Why cant India grow much faster then China when India and go ahead when gap b/w India and China is more then China and US.

I never assumed, just stated what is the natural order of things in world. The biggest slows down always. It is you who assume that against all natural order of things China would continue to grow faster then all other countries even when it is the biggest economy. Easily the most unsound of your assumption.

This view is also based on the false assumption that China is already approaching a developmental saturation point and they are unable to grow beyond this point. While I agree India has huge potential to grow but equally true is that China has also nowhere near reached its full potential but China, for me, is the country showing the greatest competence and flexibility to adapting to the current global economic turbulence. Like I said before, yes, China's growth rate will slow but that's due to its overall economic size expansion. This however does not mean China will not continue to grow, albeit at a less sharp growth rate.

yes it will grow like US is growing. I agree and I never said China will not grow. But China will become slow.

If India believes that they will develop into the next superpower just because of their large demographic, then this is equally a false assumption.
Assumption 4: I never said anything about superpower. Even if China overtake US in economy, US would still be the biggest superpower for many more decades.


Many things are required to sustain economic growth of large nations such as India and China, and that includes flexible and effective governance, investment in improving public health and education, developing a strong domestic manufacturing and research base, building of comprehensive transport (railways, roads) and modern utilities that cover the entire country. There are more but these are just some of the structural problems India must overcome, and in this respect, China are decades ahead of India. This isn't a slight on India, but its just the current situation India finds itself in and India needs to develop at its own pace. However, making hopeful projections of catching China anytime soon is both self-deluding and self-defeating. India requires honest self-reflection and evaluation, and address basic issues before they can move forward and develop as a nation.

Assumption 5: China don't have the stumbling blocks and only India has.

India has shown good growth despite its problems. Even US has its problems.

I'm not being protective of China, as I'm not Chinese, but I call silly views out for being silly. Indians need to stop living with their heads in the cloud and show greater self-honesty and pragmatism.

you sound like to be.
 
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India has its own business model and not going by US intelligence report, The margin between India and China will be reduced to a large extent within next decade.

How can the enormous gap between China and India be reduced "to a large extent" in just 10 years when China will continue to grow at about 6-7% annually?
 
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How can the enormous gap between China and India be reduced "to a large extent" in just 10 years when China will continue to grow at about 6-7% annually?
ur

It is related to saturation of Economy. Within a decade Chinese economy will be saturated, there are various reasons and India has comparative advantage in younger population by that time.
 
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Assumption 1: So China would never overtake US, as China would slow down to 1-2% when it closes on to US? But you obviously dont think so in case of China.

Maybe the above doesn't apply to China but only India.

You are comparing apples to oranges mate. China is not the USA and India is not China so your simple analogies do not apply. The USA, like much of the Western World, with perhaps Australia and Germany aside, is experiencing years, some decades, of near zero economic growth. Their finite debt-based economic model has reached its limit. Inflated Western currencies only hold their value because creditor nations such as China, Japan and the Arab oil nations continue to trade in them to buy commodities such as oil, and buy US debt in the form of Dollar-denominated treasury bonds. However, China knows the West's currency charade is reaching the end of its usefulness and they are moving away from exports-led economic growth, and in turn moving away from the Dollar in favour of trading with its own currency between major regional trading partners, including Russsia and Japan. China is intending to make their currency the new reserve currency or at least part of a basket of reserve currencies. This is why China is forecasted to overtake the US, because it is a country which deals in trade of real goods and services, unlike the US, who's main product for decades ha been Dollar debt forced upon the rest of the World. Even China with a slowing growth rate will overtake a US, who's economy is at a standstill. This is not my 'asssumption', even the IMF predicts by 2016-2017, China's GDP will overtake that of the US in Dollar terms. In real terms such as purchasing power parity and manufacturing output, China is already ahead of the US.


Assumption 2: Bro nothing is inevitable. even China taking over US is not inevitable.

In normal circumstances India would overtake.

Read above.

What is this 'normal circumtances' you talk of? Most favorable conditions for India versus worst-case for China? Please elaborate.

Assumption 3 (the biggest and most unsound)

When China can grow much faster then US even when China is inching much closer to US. Why cant India grow much faster then China when India and go ahead when gap b/w India and China is more then China and US.

I never assumed, just stated what is the natural order of things in world. The biggest slows down always. It is you who assume that against all natural order of things China would continue to grow faster then all other countries even when it is the biggest economy. Easily the most unsound of your assumption.



yes it will grow like US is growing. I agree and I never said China will not grow. But China will become slow.

Like I have repeated many times before, yes growth rates will decrease as economies enlarge but that does not mean the economy does not continue to grow. It's just that every percentage growth rate will signify a much larger volume of economic output. India will also be subject to these economic laws should their economy continue to grow.

Your assumption in turn is predicated on China inevitably hitting an economic ceiling that slows or halts its growth to a standstill and India magically resolving all its structural issues and gallops its way past China. This is not a 'natural order' or fundamental law you so seem to think it is, more like wishful thinking on your part. I'm not arrogant enough to say India can't achieve this but they have a lot of work to do and a lot of problems to solve to just catch up to China, let alone overtake her. Of course, China faces new chalenges too, in turning her economy from an export-led one to a more balanced and domestic consumer-driven one. China's obvious drive in education and technology/innovation is showing to me their determination to move up the quality and technological ladder. China is showing their adaptability and willingness to punch through this so called economic ceiling that naysayers, such as yourself, seem to think is in China's fated path. On the other hand, India is not convincing me they can improve their structural problems anytime soon.

Yes, all economies reach a saturation point where economic output of that country's human and natural resources is maximised or optimised. However, your assumption is that China will have reached hers by 2030 or before, and India's economic ceiling is equal or greater than that of China's. Nothing about India's current infrastructure and Governmental proficiency indicates to me that this would be true. Yes, call them assumptions but they are based on the facts at hand, at this moment.

Assumption 4: I never said anything about superpower. Even if China overtake US in economy, US would still be the biggest superpower for many more decades.

You keep saying under 'normal circumstances' that India should overtake China. Given that China is expected to have the largest economy in the World, in as short as 5 years time, if India were to overtake such a country to become the largest economy, of course you are saying that India is going to be the next superpower. Superpowers come in both military and economic forms. And yes, I agree the US will still be the military superpower for decades to come.


Assumption 5: China don't have the stumbling blocks and only India has.

India has shown good growth despite its problems. Even US has its problems.

Read above.

you sound like to be.

I'm British and proud to be British. I respect the way the Chinese go about their business and find their economic and military development the most interesting area of today's international affairs. I'm just sick of having to wade through post after post of Indian trolls in every China-related article I read on here. I have no ill-will towards Indian people, but some Indian trolls on here just don't care about talking about facts and just spew nonsense for the sake of it.
 
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seven7seven a short summary of your above post,

so China is having GDP of 8 trillion now.

China will become biggest economy in 2020 with GDP of around 20 Trillion maybe.

then China would keep growing AT the fastest rate in world (MUCH MORE THEN INDIA and OTHERS)

and then in 2100 the world GDP would be

China 10,000 Trillion, Rest of world 100 Trillion. But still no one would grow more then China. :lol:

Now go and sleep.

End of Fantasy Movie.
 
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ur

It is related to saturation of Economy. Within a decade Chinese economy will be saturated, there are various reasons and India has comparative advantage in younger population by that time.

Are you talking about GDP or developments in Indian industry and technology? Because when it comes to GDP there is no way for India to catch up any time soon. I thought you were talking about GDP.

ur

It is related to saturation of Economy. Within a decade Chinese economy will be saturated, there are various reasons and India has comparative advantage in younger population by that time.

Are you talking about GDP or developments in Indian industry and technology? Because when it comes to GDP there is no way for India to catch up any time soon. I thought you were talking about GDP.

ur

It is related to saturation of Economy. Within a decade Chinese economy will be saturated, there are various reasons and India has comparative advantage in younger population by that time.

Are you talking about GDP or developments in Indian industry and technology? Because when it comes to GDP there is no way for India to catch up any time soon. I thought you were talking about GDP.
 
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Are you talking about GDP or developments in Indian industry and technology? Because when it comes to GDP there is no way for India to catch up any time soon. I thought you were talking about GDP.

Here term was used as 'outpace'.. out pace means India would have more growth rate figure(GDP) than China in 2030.

So it is about growth rate of GDP not GDP alone.
 
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seven7seven a short summary of your above post,

so China is having GDP of 8 trillion now.

China will become biggest economy in 2020 with GDP of around 20 Trillion maybe.

then China would keep growing AT the fastest rate in world (MUCH MORE THEN INDIA and OTHERS)

and then in 2100 the world GDP would be

China 10,000 Trillion, Rest of world 100 Trillion. But still no one would grow more then China. :lol:

Now go and sleep.

End of Fantasy Movie.

There is nowhere in my previous posts where I say China will continue to grow faster than India, although they are currently growing at a faster rate (about 7.5% compared to India's 5.5%). I keep saying I agree that China's growth rate will decrease whilst their economy will continue to expand, albeit at a slower growth rate. My point is that you seem to think India has a God-given right to also continue to increase in economic growth, to the point where you believe you can overtake China within about two decades. I keep pointing out all the structural stumbling blocks facing India in doing this yet all you seem capable of doing is misquoting me and now resorting to childish inferences that I'm in some kind of dreamland, and am delusional. I have been replying to you because I thought I could have a reasonable debate but it seems you are one of those Indian posters who do not care about facts. I'll let you believe what you want to believe, even if it flies in the face of cold realities.
 
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There is nowhere in my previous posts where I say China will continue to grow faster than India, although they are currently growing at a faster rate (about 7.5% compared to India's 5.5%). I keep saying I agree that China's growth rate will decrease whilst their economy will continue to expand, albeit at a slower growth rate. My point is that you seem to think India has a God-given right to also continue to increase in economic growth, to the point where you believe you can overtake China within about two decades. I keep pointing out all the structural stumbling blocks facing India in doing this yet all you seem capable of doing is misquoting me and now resorting to childish inferences that I'm in some kind of dreamland, and am delusional. I have been replying to you because I thought I could have a reasonable debate but it seems you are one of those Indian posters who do not care about facts. I'll let you believe what you want to believe, even if it flies in the face of cold realities.

And you think that China will go slow, therefore SURELY India should also go slow, just in case not to offend the Chinese feelings!

and I never said India would overtake Chinese in one decade or two decades or three decades. I don't like to predict so precisely which I know is a futile exercise. I said it could happen anytime from 2025 to 2045..
 
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Here term was used as 'outpace'.. out pace means India would have more growth rate figure(GDP) than China in 2030.

So it is about growth rate of GDP not GDP alone.

but I already knew that India would probably have a higher growth rate than China in 10-20 years. I mean it's very likely, I think. Are there any projections about Indian economy for the next 10 years?
 
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but I already knew that India would probably have a higher growth rate than China in 10-20 years. I mean it's very likely, I think. Are there any projections about Indian economy for the next 10 years?

There is lot of that on internet , just google that.

But trust me , real impetus will come in 2014 election when BJP comes to power headed by Modi.

in case of India it is politics which drives economy.
 
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And you think that China will go slow, therefore SURELY India should also go slow, just in case not to offend the Chinese feelings!

and I never said India would overtake Chinese in one decade or two decades or three decades. I don't like to predict so precisely which I know is a futile exercise. I said it could happen anytime from 2025 to 2045..


You must be suffering from selective comprehension of my posts. I never said anything was set in concrete and I never said India would not grow. I said there are fundamental issues hampering India's economic progress which must be addressed and at present I don't see enough being done by your Government to address these issues. Should this situation change and your Government get their act together, then anything may be possible for India.

Chinese feelings are not my concern nor are Indian feelings. I'm not intentionally going about appeasing or hurting anybody's feelings for the sake of it. I just say it how I see it and deal with current World realities, not ifs, buts and maybes.

2025 is within two decades mate.
 
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You must be suffering from selective comprehension of my posts. I never said anything was set in concrete and I never said India would not grow. I said there are fundamental issues hampering India's economic progress which must be addressed and at present I don't see enough being done by your Government to address these issues. Should this situation change and your Government get their act together, then anything may be possible for India.

Chinese feelings are not my concern nor are Indian feelings. I'm not intentionally going about appeasing or hurting anybody's feelings for the sake of it. I just say it how I see it and deal with current World realities, not ifs, buts and maybes.

2025 is within two decades mate.

India is doing fine right now. The Chinese also face lot of issues. their growth is already down. if things go like this they may not overtake US now even by 2040. So problems are there for every country which wants to grow be it US, China or India. All countries need to compromise and adjust to the changing environment from time to time.

I didnt say 2025 exactly I said 2025 to 2045... giving a chance to wide range of possibilities from some unforeseen situation which brings China to very low growth or India acheives some super success if Modi becomes PM... So the odds are less at 2025 but increase from there onwards.. overall depending upon other factors it could be from 2025 to 2045... but I dont say it would happen categorically by 2025.
 
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