India to buy 60-63 Rafales jets off the shelf from France; MMRCA deal off:

[cerberus]

Cope India 2005 saw the U.S. Air Force deploy several F-16s that operated also mixed up with IAF Su-30MKIs (and not only against them). Nevertheless the results of the drills were much similar to those of the previous year, with Indian pilots able to win most of the engagements.

As reported by Scott Baldauf for CSMonitor, the same opinion is shared by Vinod Patney, retired Indian Air Force Marshal, and former vice chief of staff who said that the skills of IAF pilots combined with those possessed by Indian ground crews have been the real game changer during the several Cope India exercise editions since “..We’re not talking about a single aircraft. We’re talking about the overall infrastructure, the command and control systems, the radar on the ground and in the air, the technical crew on the ground, and how do you maximize that infrastructure. This is where the learning curve takes place.”

So, provided that the it went exactly as reported, was poor training the reason of the bad results achieved by US aircrews during Cope India exercises? Did the U.S. underestimate the IAF before the first simulated dogfights?

You only excuse was sighted was not proposed use AMRAAM.
Well know what is killing propibility is still Unproven

 

[Chanakya's_Chant]

Oh common that exercise was highly biased one where USAF was flying with lot of handicaps see quote from article you had posted

engagements typically involved six Eagles against up to eighteen IAF aircraft with no chance to simulate any beyond visual range (BVR) missile shot (due to the Indian request of not using the AMRAAM).

So before making tall claims read the whole thing

As if the third generation MiG-21 Bisons were supposed to carry them! MiG's are not BVR capable let alone having an "option" to use them against the fourth generation F-15C's. In fact AIM-120 AMRAAM missile and AESA radars would have made little difference in BVR - as new jamming technologies (like DFRM) degrade or negate most of these (radio EM-spectrum) AIM-120 class capabilities - regardless. In one sense: active-homing (fire-and-forget) BVR class weapons have become increasingly ‘easier’ to elude - using DRFM-class deception techniques. Indeed this might be what effectively occurred during 'Red Flag' 2008. The American military always fight its wars over hostile airspace: so USAF-to-IAF numbers/odds/environment is 150% applicable.

American officials credited Indian pilots with being:

"very proficient in [their] aircraft and smart on tactics. That combination was tough for us to overcome,"

"The adversaries are better than we thought," Col. Mike Snodgrass added.” And in the case of the Indian Air Force both their training and some of their equipment was better than we anticipated."

"The Indians flew a number of different fighters, including the French-made Mirage 2000 and the Russian-made MiG-27 and MiG-29, but the two most formidable IAF aircraft proved to be the MIG-21 Bison, an upgraded version of the Russian-made baseline MiG-21, and the Su-30MK Flanker, also made in Russia."

When questioned on the capabilities of IAF pilots, Col Greg Newbech, USAF Team Leader made the following remarks:

“What we’ve seen in the last two weeks is the IAF can stand toe-to-toe with best AF in the world.”

“I pity the pilot who has to face the IAF and chances the day to underestimate him; because he won’t be going home.”

“The greatest compliment we heard from an IAF pilot – You American pilots are just like us, simply down to earth people.”

So before denying facts just beacuase they don't please your ego - maybe you should read the whole thing as well?

 

[sathya]

If my estimations were Correct, India would get first two Rafales before the end of this Year

we know you have OCD with rafales , but how did you estimate that we will get 2 Rafales before the end of this year?

 

[mad_max]

As if the third generation MiG-21 Bisons were supposed to carry them! MiG's are not BVR capable let alone having an "option" to use them against the fourth generation F-15C's. In fact AIM-120 AMRAAM missile and AESA radars would have made little difference in BVR - as new jamming technologies (like DFRM) degrade or negate most of these (radio EM-spectrum) AIM-120 class capabilities - regardless. In one sense: active-homing (fire-and-forget) BVR class weapons have become increasingly ‘easier’ to elude - using DRFM-class deception techniques. Indeed this might be what effectively occurred during 'Red Flag' 2008. The American military always fight its wars over hostile airspace: so USAF-to-IAF numbers/odds/environment is 150% applicable.

American officials credited Indian pilots with being:

"very proficient in [their] aircraft and smart on tactics. That combination was tough for us to overcome,"

"The adversaries are better than we thought," Col. Mike Snodgrass added.” And in the case of the Indian Air Force both their training and some of their equipment was better than we anticipated."

"The Indians flew a number of different fighters, including the French-made Mirage 2000 and the Russian-made MiG-27 and MiG-29, but the two most formidable IAF aircraft proved to be the MIG-21 Bison, an upgraded version of the Russian-made baseline MiG-21, and the Su-30MK Flanker, also made in Russia."

When questioned on the capabilities of IAF pilots, Col Greg Newbech, USAF Team Leader made the following remarks:

“What we’ve seen in the last two weeks is the IAF can stand toe-to-toe with best AF in the world.”

“I pity the pilot who has to face the IAF and chances the day to underestimate him; because he won’t be going home.”

“The greatest compliment we heard from an IAF pilot – You American pilots are just like us, simply down to earth people.”

So before denying facts just beacuase they don't please your ego - maybe you should read the whole thing as well?

You can rant and day dream what ever you want , but IAF is plagued heavily by all Russian junk who pose mantainence nightmares and are less in capabilities then western counterparts.

 

[cerberus]

You can rant and day dream what ever you want , but IAF is plagued heavily by all Russian junk who pose mantainence nightmares and are less in capabilities then western counterparts.

@MilSpec this guy need a reality Check

 

[SamantK]

You can rant and day dream what ever you want , but IAF is plagued heavily by all Russian junk who pose mantainence nightmares and are less in capabilities then western counterparts.

So the answer to a detailed post is "russian junk" inferior to "western counterparts".. hmm, ok.

 

[mad_max]

So the answer to a detailed post is "russian junk" inferior to "western counterparts".. hmm, ok.

Yes that's the truth and buying rafales in large numbers is only viable option for IAF .
Another decade your famous Su30 will convert into flying coffins list like Mig21/27 that's what Russian junk do.

 

[Joseph Goebbels]

Yes that's the truth and buying rafales in large numbers is only viable options for IAF .

your right sir but not fully

the best thing for IAF is get those 36 rafles pretty fast and in the mean time get the LCA MK2 ready on fast track basis and that too in equal numbers as rafale if not more

 

[mad_max]

your right sir but not fully

the best thing for IAF is get those 36 rafles pretty fast and in the mean time get the LCA MK2 ready on fast track basis and that too in equal numbers as rafale if not more

LCA is a point defense light fighter /trainer at best it cannot win wars for you ever , with 7 hard points , 3500 kg payload , 50 km radar , 300 km CR its not of much use in attacking roles.

I have same opinion about JF 17 hope with Amca india does better for now concentrate on rafales purchases in big numbers and increasing maintainability and quality of su 30

 

[Joseph Goebbels]

LCA is a point defense light fighter /trainer at best it cannot win wars for you ever , with 7 hard points , 3500 kg payload , 50 km radar , 300 km CR its not of much use in attacking roles.

50 km radar now thats a new one

 

[SamantK]

Yes that's the truth and buying rafales in large numbers is only viable option for IAF .
Another decade your famous Su30 will convert into flying coffins list like Mig21/27 that's what Russian junk do.

Ok, if you say so.

I have no doubt in the capability of the western equipment but never underestimate others too.

 

[Chanakya's_Chant]

You can rant and day dream what ever you want , but IAF is plagued heavily by all Russian junk who pose mantainence nightmares and are less in capabilities then western counterparts.

Don't flip the topic when you can't keep up the argument - Who the hell claimed IAF to be superior to USAF? Yes it's a fact the IAF's squadron strength is in a alarming state and that's why the purchase of 36 MMRCA's is being made. It was about Cope India and the views expressed were of USAF's NOT that of IAF's. It were the American Generals who went on to publicize the exercise and demand the Pentagon accordingly -

Results of air exercise with India a "wake-up call" for US air force: general
USAF: Indian Exercises Showed Need For Changes In Training - Vayu Sena

 

[mad_max]

50 km radar now thats a new one

Not my fault if you are ignorant current radar range is 45 km to be increased to 80 km after changing to quartz radome , even 80 is somewhat inferior in current era

 

[Ind4Ever]

Yes that's the truth and buying rafales in large numbers is only viable option for IAF .
Another decade your famous Su30 will convert into flying coffins list like Mig21/27 that's what Russian junk do.

Mr.Mad Moron You won't have anything closer to MKI in million years . This is not like your Burrrr uAV or your super joint fighter with just 15 years of official lifespan . This is Super fighter and king of Air superiority. Yes true when jets get old it will be obsolete . But it's will take more than 20 years for that to happen with IAF . And since we will keep upgrading it to Super Sukoi u can just wait with u r last wish for Sukoi to dance around your heads lol

Not my fault if you are ignorant current radar range is 45 km to be increased to 80 km after changing to quartz radome , even 80 is somewhat inferior in current era

Yes true ...

 

[mad_max]

Mr.Mad Moron You won't have anything closer to MKI in million years . This is not like your Burrrr uAV or your super joint fighter with just 15 years of official lifespan . This is Super fighter and king of Air superiority. Yes true when jets get old it will be obsolete . But it's will take more than 20 years for that to happen with IAF . And since we will keep upgrading it to Super Sukoi u can just wait with u r last wish for Sukoi to dance around your heads lol



Yes true ...

dance around my head , are u sure puny Indian you wont have anything close to f22/f35/predator drones in next 5 decades