India to buy 26 Naval Rafales, 3 Scorpene submarines from France, deals likely to be announced during PM Modi's visit.

[indushek]

Parrikar had given a name to such requests. He called these weapon systems “superman weapons”. No one has them but our guys in uniform wanted them. They see what is the best available anywhere in the world and add 10-50% to it, to lay down what they want.

Sometimes I just wonder, who draws up these requirements.
We blame our bureaucrats but there are bigger babus in uniform. A bit detached from realities of the world.

Look at their AWACS program and J10 too. Our folks wanted the worlds best and were able to get just 3 AWACS, while PAF has more then 10. Not the best but good enough which are doing a wonderful work for them.
Our Rafales came after one of the most protracted and dramatic attempts but they got J10s in no time.

Haha Parrikar saab was such a realist, sahi bola inke baare me.

Khali babu culture hi nahi, corruption bhi bahut hai. INS Vikramaditya ka vahi hua na, got honeytrapped and we paid out of our nose. Mirage deal me bhi, French ne apna pichwada maar diya.

LCA me hum log har baar DRDO/HAL ko gali dete hai, par kitne goalpost changing hua usme. It was clear that Airforce just didn't want to get indigenous weapons. Tender daalo cut le lo, bahar se chahiye.

Truly what you said is right, AWACS/Tanker deal/Rafale deal etc etc we can just keep listing for days. Pata nahi e BJP ke isme kuch cuts chal rahe hai ya nahi, we can only know when they get down from power.

 

[CallSignMaverick]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1679426284240396288

 

[Hephaestus]

Nice try, that almost hurt. In the end, it really doesn't change what I said.


Oh yeah, because the Indian navy would never try to blockade Pakistan in the event of a war, right? Nope, never.

I think navy Mig 29's would be enough for that!

 

[MilSpec]

If this is the best you got, then you need to learn how to do a bit of critical thinking.

Absolutely pathetic attempt at trolling, I give it a 2 out of 10.

So just blabery... Your Military's line of credit is has not effect on your budegtary allocations? Dude, post one rebutal then we will see who is the troll here.

 

[Abdul Rehman Majeed]

How did you come to that conclusion?

Indian scorpene subs do not have AIP and their signature details have been compromised.

Lol who tells you that j10c is better than Indian rafale you crap head

Our agosta subs are old 90s technology their scorpions sub is one step ahead from our agosta

And both (Indian Rafales and scorpions subs) are serious threats for Pakistan's security

And don't live your delusional world you stupid

Our Agostas have AIP while Indian scorpenes do not have AIP.

Also, Indian scorpenes signature have been released on the internet and has been compromised.

Indian scorpenes are just sitting ducks.

 

[Abdul Rehman Majeed]

Abdul bhai

No country will ever transfer full tech, if its just selling engine with TOT. Even the Ge F414 is only 80% TOT by value or tech, not sure which is right. Either way some critical component or stage, will be withheld to make sure the OEM doesn't become irrelevant. Its just foolish to expect 100% transfer, as that will mean OEM will not have any say and who will axe themselves?

This engine though is being offered, as joint development and manufacturing. Supposed to involve the why and the what part as well, but we can't be sure can we? So we will have to wait and see

Well the Rafale's price includes, training equipment and weapons package as well. Further by buying just 36, your leverage to negotiate goes down badly. Economies of scale and all, along with bargaining power with less number being brought.

So what is the point of this 80% ToT?

You guys do not have skill to absorb ToT as comfirmed by Dassualt during the Rafale deal.

You guys do not have skills to reverse engineer and build products like China.

You guys do not have skill to build engine on your own.

You are just wasting all this money.

Instead you should have focussed on building toilets with this money.

But But we have Oil to run all the machines, tell me about you ??

We get oil on discounted Muslim friendly prices while you guys pay a premium.

 

[indushek]

So what is the point of this 80% ToT?

You guys do not have skill to absorb ToT as comfirmed by Dassualt during the Rafale deal.

You guys do not have skills to reverse engineer and build products like China.

You guys do not have skill to build engine on your own.

You are just wasting all this money.

Instead you should have focussed on building toilets with this money.

Toilets are being built, with additional funds so not to worry on that account.

The point of 80% TOT is to minimize costs initially, and gain experience on whatever is being transferred. Metallurgy is the main point here

Kaveri dry is ready and will be used on a UCAV to start with

The bolded part am sure you are just hyperventilating now haha

Off topic but: Will you be honest and tell me just this once, are you really a Pakistani or a Indian or entirely someone else? Am so so curious as are many around here

 

[SQ8]

Its like two ends of a spectrum

Till the second term of Congress before Modi came, deals couldn't be made due to economical conditions. Whatever were done, had lots of corruption in them. Once the money came and the amounts lost came out as well, the procedure got twisted and elongated for any capex acquisition. Artillery suffered, Airforce suffered and so on due to politicians fearing 'scandal and corruption' on their names.

Unlike Pakistan who is ready to induct a platform quickly, and then work on bettering it in block or tranches our guys want a fully developed platform on platter. In some cases they want platforms which even West doesn't have, case in point Navy's P75I program. Got stuck because there is no working AIP tech that is fuel cell based or something, which even the French didn't go for. Sometimes I just wonder, who draws up these requirements.

Like you said the only shining beacon in this mess, is IMDP aka missile program set up by Kalam saab. One of the best we had, almost all the missiles came through. The further developments on base programs of Prithvi Agni etc are going well too. I believe this is what helped our guys to gain expertise, to partner with Russia to make Brahmos. At least the software part, not sure the share of work we have in the propulsion system, given its base of P800 Oniks.

What a mess we got everywhere

I don’t think its a mess everywhere but it was a huge mess In project and budget management. There is a lot of knowledge creation progress made but the problem is the boomer and Gen X desi generation which seriously stymied progress and development for the longest while.

The notion might be there is enough money to go around, for foreign procurements and local developments from the more ambitious side of political and military leadership.
The next rung down gets laden with details, and they arrive at the conclusion there isn't enough to do either without affecting something else. And then there is lack of poor local private capabilities to support homegrown systems. It will take another decade, but once private players start catching the drift and forcing the government's hand to make these projects lucrative, the boost in local defense items will be almost exponential.

You want a government program to thrive in India, make is profitable for big business monopolies to get invested...

Agreed - it will eventually come once the ecosystem fully gets settled in. I disagree though that private capacities didn’t exist - there were plenty of bright candidates but as I mentioned before - the boomer and Gen X babus scuttled them and those folks moved abroad

 

[Abdul Rehman Majeed]

Toilets are being built, with additional funds so not to worry on that account.

The point of 80% TOT is to minimize costs initially, and gain experience on whatever is being transferred. Metallurgy is the main point here

Kaveri dry is ready and will be used on a UCAV to start with

The bolded part am sure you are just hyperventilating now haha

Off topic but: Will you be honest and tell me just this once, are you really a Pakistani or a Indian or entirely someone else? Am so so curious as are many around here

Rafale deal: The real reason why HAL was not picked as offset partner

The Centre told the Supreme Court that the state owned Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) failed to become an offset partner in the Rafale deal as there were several unresolved issues it had with Dassault, the French company.

www.oneindia.com

It said HAL required "2.7 times higher man-hours compared to the French side for the manufacture of Rafale aircraft in India"

India's Rafale jet talks brighten after rough patch

India and France are speeding up negotiations on a $10 billion deal for 126 Rafale aircraft following disagreements over the cost of building them in India, which caused months of delays, two Indian Defense Ministry officials told Reuters.

www.reuters.com

Rafale has expressed doubts about the technological capability of HAL to manufacture such a sophisticated fighter jet, the official said.

Toilets are being built, with additional funds so not to worry on that account.

You have to train the people how to use them.

 

[Foinikas]

Indian scorpene subs do not have AIP and their signature details have been compromised.

Who told you that their signatures have been compromised?

 

[Abdul Rehman Majeed]

Who told you that their signatures have been compromised?

France's DCNS says India submarine data leak may be 'economic warfare'

French naval contractor DCNS said on Wednesday it may have been the victim of "economic warfare" after secrets about its Scorpene submarines being built in India were leaked.

www.reuters.com

 

[That Guy]

So just blabery... Your Military's line of credit is has not effect on your budegtary allocations? Dude, post one rebutal then we will see who is the troll here.

What rebuttal to what point? You came in here trolling, making snide remarks.

You don't deserve a proper response.

I think navy Mig 29's would be enough for that!

If you want a serious answer, Migs wouldn't be nearly enough. They simply don't have the capability of dealing with Pakistani F-16s.

 

[MilSpec]

What rebuttal to what point? You came in here trolling, making snide remarks.

You don't deserve a proper response.

Nothing snide about it. If your Military establishment has figured out a way for IMF to bankroll it's ambitions, that is quite an achievement. You are the one who is denying it...

 

[Chandragupt Maurya]

*2019

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Stay in your aukat.

The Balakot incident served as evidence of the Indian military's capability to target Pakistan at a specific time and location of their choosing.

 

[air marshal]