INDIA TO BUY 12 RUSSIAN ADVANCED S-400 AIR DEFENSE SYSTEM: SOURCES

[assassin123]

I know its not as simple as you think. You simply do not understand the tall hurdle which rugged mountainous areas such as Kashmir present for a system like S-400. Similarly for your 'aerostat' radars and what nots. The only credible system you have to gain insight is the PHALCON, of which you have just 3. If we engage them in the north, they are pretty much out of the picture elsewhere.

Your problem is, you are so full of your multi-layer defence, you are blind to your own weakness. Suits us.

2 more PHALCONS to be delivered soon.
Further the new DRDO awacs have been inducted.

 

[GURU DUTT]

You talk as if PAF is having a very large quantitative advantage wrt the IAF. Which in reality you haven't.
If you go by the above logic you will lose a lot of assets and put more pilots at risk to shoot down a single IAF jet.
The rafale will anyways detect the jf-17 before it can detect rafale,And given that most modern fighters have the capability to fire more than 4 missiles at the same time what advantage does Fielding more jf-17's have?

most of them think taking down something like IAF M2K or Mig 29 or even MKI is like walk in the park for any PAF pilot even if he is in his mirage 3 and the funny part is thy have this fixation about 50% avilabilty of indian fighter but have no idea about the avilabilty of PAF fighter and spare parts shortage at home or for that matter the an avrage IAF Pilot does 250+ hours flight hours and thrice as much in stimulators every year and we have most potent radar and BVRs and ground attack PGMs, LGBs and other guided munations money can buy today and now also MTCR member and are getting long range ones which pakistanies & chinese can only dream about

 

[CriticalThought]

well we have orderred 2 more and we have owr very own GaA AESA based DRDO AWACS oprational and deicated to the nation we have three of them and next gen with 360 degrees covrage is under construction and thats just one part so what can you do we have at least 5-7 green pine or equivellent plus owr own swirdfish class and LRDE made many differnt AESA & PESA radars plus Russian and French and even new versions of latest classified israeli and amrican ones which we aquired in last couple of years so dont as soon as you start it your "combined " forces will know what they are up against if PAF or PLAAF had the intend and the gutts they would have attacked us by now they are not attacking us for a very serious reason which pakistani kids and arm chair generals of socal media will never understan or aknowledge so have a great day

As usual trying to divert the discussion by bringing in needless superfluous information. We are talking AWACS on the mountain. What are the operating ranges of height and temperature for your AWACS especially the indigenously built ones? Can they track targets on the ground? How many of your jets are capable of flying in the unforgivable conditions of mountains and glaciers?

most of them think taking down something like IAF M2K or Mig 29 or even MKI is like walk in the park for any PAF pilot even if he is in his mirage 3 and the funny part is thy have this fixation about 50% avilabilty of indian fighter but have no idea about the avilabilty of PAF fighter and spare parts shortage at home or for that matter the an avrage IAF Pilot does 250+ hours flight hours and thrice as much in stimulators every year and we have most potent radar and BVRs and ground attack PGMs, LGBs and other guided munations money can buy today and now also MTCR member and are getting long range ones which pakistanies & chinese can only dream about

The MIG 29 was brought down with just a MANPAD. Now don't give me ur engine failure story. The engine obviously failed after the missile hit its mark.

 

[GURU DUTT]

As usual trying to divert the discussion by bringing in needless superfluous information. We are talking AWACS on the mountain. What are the operating ranges of height and temperature for your AWACS especially the indigenously built ones? Can they track targets on the ground? How many of your jets are capable of flying in the unforgivable conditions of mountains and glaciers?

well what is your fixtion with mountains and how many assets you can hide in mountains or in times of war use them covering in mountains do you know how SAR based sattelietes work from space and how AWACS like PHALCONS flying at an altitude of 18 KM look and map the mountains easily while your AWACS cant go beyond 16 KM and what is the peak power output of TERMs of PHALCONs versus your AWACS ? do some research on that also then add to effect of AEROSTAT and ground based radars and space based radars an human intellegences gatherred from deiffrent soureces and then we have freindly nations from where in are of WAR we can put a few assets to peak into pakistani airspace from behind and yes almost all AWACS or FIGHTERS in IAF as most of them are designed in Tundra /russia can easily wirk under -35 degrees centigrate atmosphere

as for bringing down M29 with MANPAD is funny to say the least its not 1999 and technology on board upgraded fulkrums with latest jammers and long range LGB & PGM firring cpability means it does not have to come to 5KM altitude where ANZA 2-3 can fly at most so dear think what your writting

 

[assassin123]

most of them think taking down something like IAF M2K or Mig 29 or even MKI is like walk in the park for any PAF pilot even if he is in his mirage 3 and the funny part is thy have this fixation about 50% avilabilty of indian fighter but have no idea about the avilabilty of PAF fighter and spare parts shortage at home or for that matter the an avrage IAF Pilot does 250+ hours flight hours and thrice as much in stimulators every year and we have most potent radar and BVRs and ground attack PGMs, LGBs and other guided munations money can buy today and now also MTCR member and are getting long range ones which pakistanies & chinese can only dream about

True. Most of them are still stuck in the days where they only used guns in dogfights. Nowadays the technological advantage over your enemy matters more.

The average age of PAF aircraft is 20+ years.
Everyone knows that an old airframe will spend most of it's time in the ground rather than in the air as they become maintanance intensive.but still most members over here think that none of this matters.

As usual trying to divert the discussion by bringing in needless superfluous information. We are talking AWACS on the mountain. What are the operating ranges of height and temperature for your AWACS especially the indigenously built ones? Can they track targets on the ground? How many of your jets are capable of flying in the unforgivable conditions of mountains and glaciers?



The MIG 29 was brought down with just a MANPAD. Now don't give me ur engine failure story. The engine obviously failed after the missile hit its mark.

The above post proves what level of knowledge you have on what you are talking about.
It was a mig 21 that was bought down.
Also what stops a fighter jets to fly over a glacier.

 

[Windjammer]

You talk as if PAF is having a very large quantitative advantage wrt the IAF. Which in reality you haven't.
If you go by the above logic you will lose a lot of assets and put more pilots at risk to shoot down a single IAF jet.
The rafale will anyways detect the jf-17 before it can detect rafale,And given that most modern fighters have the capability to fire more than 4 missiles at the same time what advantage does Fielding more jf-17's have?

It helps to first comprehend the psyche of the post before pressing the reply button.
Neither the Rafale, which will not be in numbers for about five years, will be fighting all the combat neither the JF-17......in five years, who knows what PAF will be fielding.....In any case, so far, in a real war, the Rafale has only been used for ground attack.... so i was talking with that scenario in mind.

 

[randomradio]

@Arsalan , it's useless arguing with Guru, he's jack of all trades and master of none.
You see, Dollar for dollar, we can field say four JF-17s for a single Rafale.
Now picture this, India sends say four Rafales on a mission over Pakistan and we field 16 JF-17 over India.
Even if half the JF-17 force is shot down, the other Eight can still do plenty of damage but if the Rafales are shot down, it will really hurt India and it will be forced to change it's strategy.

But looking at the finances of Pak, we will be the ones fielding 16 Rafales while you will be the ones fielding 4 JF-17s. Our economies are not equal.

 

[Arsalan 345]

Yes, Syria has Russian cover. What does Pak have? Other than your online bravado about China making an s400 copy and then gifting it to Pak, all in another 2 years.

You must send your fighter jets here and you will soon realize. Dude you can't handle sams.we shoot down your plane with shoulder fired missile,Sams are too big for iaf to handle.lol

 

[CriticalThought]

well what is your fixtion with mountains and how many assets you can hide in mountains or in times of war use them covering in mountains do you know how SAR based sattelietes work from space and how AWACS like PHALCONS flying at an altitude of 18 KM look and map the mountains easily while your AWACS cant go beyond 16 KM and what is the peak power output of TERMs of PHALCONs versus your AWACS ? do some research on that also then add to effect of AEROSTAT and ground based radars and space based radars an human intellegences gatherred from deiffrent soureces and then we have freindly nations from where in are of WAR we can put a few assets to peak into pakistani airspace from behind

Again going around in circles. After I already told you your aerostats etc won't do you any good. MIMO processing of radar data in highly cluttered environments is a DARPA hard problem. Now answer my question instead of posting random relative questions. I am not fixated with mountains, I know for a fact that PAF has you by your balls in Kashmir. Quoting miscellaneous systems isnt going to save you.

 

[assassin123]

It helps to first comprehend the psyche of the post before pressing the reply button.
Neither the Rafale, which will not be in numbers for about five years, will be fighting all the combat neither the JF-17......in five years, who knows what PAF will be fielding.....In any case, so far, in a real war, the Rafale has only been used for ground attack.... so i was talking with that scenario in mind.

What stops you from thinking what IAF will have in its arsenal 5 years from now.
Are you Claiming that the rafale is not good for A2A as it has not been involved in it.

You must send your fighter jets here and you will soon realize. Dude you can't handle sams.we shoot down your plane with shoulder fired missile,Sams are too big for iaf to handle.lol

Anyone can shoot down a fighter jet using MANPADS. we did not shot down any PAF aircraft during kargil simply because that PAF was hiding in its bunkers not willing to pick a fight with IAF or IA.

 

[CriticalThought]

True. Most of them are still stuck in the days where they only used guns in dogfights. Nowadays the technological advantage over your enemy matters more.

The average age of PAF aircraft is 20+ years.
Everyone knows that an old airframe will spend most of it's time in the ground rather than in the air as they become maintanance intensive.but still most members over here think that none of this matters.

The above post proves what level of knowledge you have on what you are talking about.
It was a mig 21 that was bought down.
Also what stops a fighter jets to fly over a glacier.

A mig-21 and mig-27 were shot down. Get your facts right. Low level flying on glaciers needs engines capable of withstanding those environments.

 

[assassin123]

A mig-21 and mig-27 were shot down. Get your facts right. Low level flying on glaciers needs engines capable of withstanding those environments.

You are the one who said mig 29.
Get your facts right.low level flying over glaciers does not need any special kinds of engines.
Anyways in fighter jets fly over 50000ft in altitude and gets subjected to temperatures below -52°c.

 

[GURU DUTT]

Again going around in circles. After I already told you your aerostats etc won't do you any good. MIMO processing of radar data in highly cluttered environments is a DARPA hard problem. Now answer my question instead of posting random relative questions. I am not fixated with mountains, I know for a fact that PAF has you by your balls in Kashmir. Quoting miscellaneous systems isnt going to save you.

well what you do not get it these days IAF is going in for a complete over haul and soon even MKIs will sporta GaN AESA radar like rafale while jaguars already getting EL2052 so will LCAMK1A and the new MLUed F16 of which talks are under way and deal might be signed during the coming NaMo visit to USA then there are AWACS which form a ring of 400-450KM and scan everything and anything inbetween then combine the ground based sensors and then the AEROSTAT networks and then the differnt small portable radars installed on mountain tops & peaks of many peaks in kashmir overlooking into pakistan all of them feeing information into a centralisd web which then controls all the SA batteries and the other front line battelfeild radars which are independent (im no expert but its very confusing for a person like me but its nit as easy either for any one to penetrate just like that cause its continouse and intograded you kill one the other one will take its place ) now please forgive me sir i have work to do thank you

 

[CriticalThought]

You are the one who said mig 29.
Get your facts right.low level flying over glaciers does not need any special kinds of engines.
Anyways in fighter jets fly over 50000ft in altitude and gets subjected to temperatures below -52°c.

Sure send your SU-30 on a mission below the clouds during adverse as snowstorm conditions. Hopefully more will fall out of the air.

 

[assassin123]

Sure send your SU-30 on a mission below the clouds during adverse as snowstorm conditions. Hopefully more will fall out of the air.

Any specific reason why.
When somebody designs an aircraft they design it to fly through any kind of weather conditions that it might encounter throughout it's life.