India to build its own stealth fighter jet.

[gambit]

I was trying to make a point of the effect of low RCS on the result of an aerial combat. Would this be a wrong example?
As far as superiority of technology is concerned, the Falkland wars demonstrated that it's not alone to win the dog fight.

Look at it this way...Political goals determine military objectives. Politicians cannot do their jobs at the negotiating tables if they do not have leverages or counterpoints to the other side's attempts at leveraging. Those leverages or counterpoints are either SUCCESSFUL military objectives or CREDIBLE threats of successful military objectives if they are executed. Or both. Therefore, it would behoove one's military leadership to gather as much successful military objectives as possible, supported by as credible threats as possible, and hope your political leadership do not squander away at the negotiating tables what was gained by blood and deaths .

 

[Black Widow]

I was trying to make a point of the effect of low RCS on the result of an aerial combat. Would this be a wrong example?
As far as superiority of technology is concerned, the Falkland wars demonstrated that it's not alone to win the dog fight.

you are absolutely right, But my point was, In current 4th gen fighters, RCS doesn't matter lot... As one of our frnd mentioned, No matter how much you reduce it, If 4th gen plane is fully loaded (all 6 hard points plus some OLS) , its RCS will be 3-4m2. current 4th and 4.5 gen fighters are able to lock 3-4 m2 object from 100km.. It is insignificant if one aircraft is able to track another beyond 100km range...

Yes if some fighter craft is undetectable within 100km range, then it is lethal... But as per my knowledge, with powerful AESA or MESA, MKI or F15 are able to track and lock any 4th gen fighter beyond 100 km.

5th gen fighters are totally different thing, They are force multiplier, one or two squadron of 5th gen fighter can enhance the IAF capability by two fold...


Wow! gambit here... Frnd whats your view on this point???

 

[Vibs]

Look at it this way...Political goals determine military objectives. Politicians cannot do their jobs at the negotiating tables if they do not have leverages or counterpoints to the other side's attempts at leveraging. Those leverages or counterpoints are either SUCCESSFUL military objectives or CREDIBLE threats of successful military objectives if they are executed. Or both. Therefore, it would behoove one's military leadership to gather as much successful military objectives as possible, supported by as credible threats as possible, and hope your political leadership do not squander away at the negotiating tables what was gained by blood and deaths .

Wow...I had to read that twice. So in simple words the objective or war or a potential conflict is to bring more ammo to the negotiating table, which is where the real fight that matters happens.
It makes sense but I was looking at the Falkland wars only through the glasses of an aerial combat. Agreed there are other factors at play but my reference was to the inability of the more Advanced Mirages to get significant dominance over the Harriers.

you are absolutely right, But my point was, In current 4th gen fighters, RCS doesn't matter lot... As one of our frnd mentioned, No matter how much you reduce it, If 4th gen plane is fully loaded (all 6 hard points plus some OLS) , its RCS will be 3-4m2. current 4th and 4.5 gen fighters are able to lock 3-4 m2 object from 100km.. It is insignificant if one aircraft is able to track another beyond 100km range...

Yes if some fighter craft is undetectable within 100km range, then it is lethal... But as per my knowledge, with powerful AESA or MESA, MKI or F15 are able to track and lock any 4th gen fighter beyond 100 km.

5th gen fighters are totally different thing, They are force multiplier, one or two squadron of 5th gen fighter can enhance the IAF capability by two fold...


Wow! gambit here... Frnd whats your view on this point???

Hmm...I'll take that arguement . Besides, with jammers and EW in play RCS won't really matter would it?

 

[gambit]

Wow...I had to read that twice. So in simple words the objective or war or a potential conflict is to bring more ammo to the negotiating table, which is where the real fight that matters happens.

Even Hitler wanted to negotiate, albeit grossly to his favor and more like: "Surrender or die." Even Hitler realized that if he can negotiate to his advantage, he will be able to bring his superior arms that has not suffered any losses to the next negotiation in hope of leveraging the same.

 

[Vibs]

Even Hitler wanted to negotiate, albeit grossly to his favor and more like: "Surrender or die." Even Hitler realized that if he can negotiate to his advantage, he will be able to bring his superior arms that has not suffered any losses to the next negotiation in hope of leveraging the same.

Hmm....sort of relates to the Libya conflict as well doesn't it.
NATO to Gaddafi: Step down and leave Libya or........

 

[gambit]

In current 4th gen fighters, RCS doesn't matter lot... As one of our frnd mentioned, No matter how much you reduce it, If 4th gen plane is fully loaded (all 6 hard points plus some OLS) , its RCS will be 3-4m2. current 4th and 4.5 gen fighters are able to lock 3-4 m2 object from 100km.. It is insignificant if one aircraft is able to track another beyond 100km range...

You are correct there. As far as radar detection goes, there are three stages: Detect, Track, and finally Target.

- Detect. In radar detection, EVERYTHING is detected. Believe it. What happens is that certain electrical characteristics are used to eliminate the majority of those items that are detected. Some of them are cosmic background radiation, TV or assorted communication signals.

- Track. What remains after the discrimination process in the 'Detect' stage is moved to Tracking. This is where the target is allotted more resources from the radar system to keep it in memory.

- Target. If a target is deemed a highest threat, usually the criteria is simply distance or proximity, then more system resources are devoted to it. This is why we have the conditional statement where the system can 'target' 6 objects while 'tracking' 12 others.

The problem (or advantage) with so-called 'fifth generation' fighters is that they are deliberately designed to be discarded in the 'Detection' stage, leaving the radar system with nothing to 'Track'. Any fighter prior to this admitted arbitrary 'fifth generation' classification will have its RCS very trackable.

 

[LiberalAtheist]

any choice on radar yet? i believe we are making an indigenous AESA radar but i read that has been delayed ^__^

 

[Firemaster]

You are correct there. As far as radar detection goes, there are three stages: Detect, Track, and finally Target.

- Detect. In radar detection, EVERYTHING is detected. Believe it. What happens is that certain electrical characteristics are used to eliminate the majority of those items that are detected. Some of them are cosmic background radiation, TV or assorted communication signals.

- Track. What remains after the discrimination process in the 'Detect' stage is moved to Tracking. This is where the target is allotted more resources from the radar system to keep it in memory.

- Target. If a target is deemed a highest threat, usually the criteria is simply distance or proximity, then more system resources are devoted to it. This is why we have the conditional statement where the system can 'target' 6 objects while 'tracking' 12 others.

The problem (or advantage) with so-called 'fifth generation' fighters is that they are deliberately designed to be discarded in the 'Detection' stage, leaving the radar system with nothing to 'Track'. Any fighter prior to this admitted arbitrary 'fifth generation' classification will have its RCS very trackable.

Can you explain bold part in detail?

 

[wmdisinfo]

lol cant Build LCA tejas from 30 years and talking about 5th gen.lol wake up good morning

 

[IndoCarib]

lol cant Build LCA tejas from 30 years and talking about 5th gen.lol wake up good morning

LCA tejas already inducted into IAF ! Wake up and welcome to 2011 !

 

[wmdisinfo]

LCA tejas already inducted into IAF ! Wake up and welcome to 2011 !

lol any specific squadrons?or base ?

 

[Tshering22]

lol cant Build LCA tejas from 30 years and talking about 5th gen.lol wake up good morning

Wind tunnel model of AMCA, tested successfully in 2008-09 itself.



AMCA concept...Explained last year itself.

Defence News: IAF issues ASR for the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA )

IAF already issued its ASRs for AMCA.. last year.

Final model displayed already in this year's AERO India.

* This is a stealth project and obviously not much details will be revealed due to secrecy. Arihant anyone?
_________________________

So much has moved forward and you're still stuck in Tejas. What a jealous troll !!

 

[IndoCarib]

lol any specific squadrons?or base ?

It was inducted in Jan this year. IAF will have 2 squadrons of LCA by year end

 

[Tshering22]

lol any specific squadrons?or base ?

First squadron to be based in Sulur air base, Coimbatore, Tamil Nadu. Google is your friend.

 

[wmdisinfo]

It was inducted in Jan this year. IAF will have 2 squadrons of LCA by year end

inducting and equipping are two different words with two seperate meanings.inducting dont mean they equipped airforce.and i asked the name or number of squadron or the base which they are operating from.you first finish LCA then you can about 5th generation and i know its gonna take you 50 years to devolp one.as lca is like bicycle and 5th gen is like a ferrari if bicylce takes 30 years then i am really optimistic that it will be completed by 2061 or even later