India to Borrow and Spend More in 2010-2011

[ajpirzada]

please avoid releasing ur frustration on each other.... i know it makes arguing much easier but also spoils the whole environment. if you cant convince each other then learn to ignore. or else ill close this thread for greater good

 

[RiazHaq]

Just because you dont understand the concept of trailing returns, it does not make any data misleading. The difference between your approach and mine is that you are taking baseline as 31st Dec 2009 and I am taking today as a base line.. btw, if you see, both your and my approach show KSE delivering a higher return on a 10 year window but lower on a 5 year, 3 year, 2 year and 1 year window than BSE. Neither approach has anything to do with Dollar cost averaging..

Also your logic on the PPP sucks. One of the most ridiculous one coming from you till now (and thats a big deal). Big Mac index is not applied blindly. THe index used by CIA world fact book and IMF is also based on basket of goods . And that index also shows India and Pakistan having comparable PPP per capita GDP in 2005-2006 (the year your report quotes from). Its just that in last 4 years, India's per capita PPP has zoomed up much faster than Pakistan's which has more or less stayed same at the 2500-2600 mark as it was during the time the ADB report was created. You have deliberately taken a report from the time India and Pakistan were comparable in PPP GDP to avoid factoring in the growth of this index in India in last 4 years


Here is the exerpt from the definitions of the PPP from the World fact book

The PPP method involves the use of standardized international dollar price weights, which are applied to the quantities of final goods and services produced in a given economy. The data derived from the PPP method probably provide the best available starting point for comparisons of economic strength and well-being between countries

The nominal per capita GDPs for India and Pakistan are about equal as reported by CIA, World Bank and IMF.

The only reason why the PPP values diverge is because of their faulty PPP methodology, as explained well by the ADB ICP paper and meticulous ICP work done over a two year period.

The only correct way to do accurate PPP assessment is to use a basket of goods and services ACTUALLY used by the people in the relevant countries, not some abstract basket unrelated to the local needs.

List of countries by GDP (nominal) per capita - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://www.adb.org/Documents/Reports/ICP-Purchasing-Power-Expenditures/Highlights.pdf

 

[Mahakaya]

please avoid releasing ur frustration on each other.... i know it makes arguing much easier but also spoils the whole environment. if you cant convince each other then learn to ignore. or else ill close this thread for greater good

Sir,

Please do as Mr Haq here has strong view points and trying to shove them down our throats.

The funnier part is that we all already know about the problems but Mr. Haq wants to put more emphasis on it without understanding the basis of the problem i.e. HUGE POPULATION. The problems he has pointed out are really big and no one doubts it but the fact of the matter remains that INDIA is taking necessary steps to alleviate them.

SO I suggest that you close this thread for good else he will take more bashing for sure and I am sure there has much already been said about India's potential while not pointing any fingers at Pakistan!

 

[RiazHaq]

Last I saw, the United Nations Human Development index rated India (Rank 134) higher than Pakistan(Rank 141)

More specifically in the poverty index also India(Rank 88) is rated higher than Pakistan (Rank 101)

The poverty index you mention is actually called HP-1.

HPI-1 represents a multi-dimensional alternative to the $1.25 a day poverty measure.

As to the below $1.25 poverty line normally used by all others, UNDP report shows India at 41.6 poor population, about twice the poverty rate of 22.6% in Pakistan.

Human Development Report 2009 - Population living below $1.25 a day (%)

 

[RiazHaq]

Sir,

Please do as Mr Haq here has strong view points and trying to shove them down our throats.

The funnier part is that we all already know about the problems but Mr. Haq wants to put more emphasis on it without understanding the basis of the problem i.e. HUGE POPULATION. The problems he has pointed out are really big and no one doubts it but the fact of the matter remains that INDIA is taking necessary steps to alleviate them.

SO I suggest that you close this thread for good else he will take more bashing for sure and I am sure there has much already been said about India's potential while not pointing any fingers at Pakistan!

You know about the problems? Then why do you keep denying them? You even questioned the reports by calling them "shoddy". Didn't you? Just go back and look, if you don't believe me.

 

[Chiru]

please avoid releasing ur frustration on each other.... i know it makes arguing much easier but also spoils the whole environment. if you cant convince each other then learn to ignore. or else ill close this thread for greater good

Sir, Please close this thread. The thread starter is adamant and rigid.

It gives indian a bad prospective on pakisrani in general. It makes more enemy for pakistan.

Looking at the Haq profile in the website, I doubt he may not be the same Haq. Someone may be impersonating him.

 

[karan.1970]

The nominal per capita GDPs for India and Pakistan are about equal as reported by CIA, World Bank and IMF.

The only reason why the PPP values diverge is because of their faulty PPP methodology, as explained well by the ADB ICP paper and meticulous ICP work done over a two year period.

The only correct way to do accurate PPP assessment is to use a basket of goods and services ACTUALLY used by the people in the relevant countries, not some abstract basket unrelated to the local needs.

List of countries by GDP (nominal) per capita - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://www.adb.org/Documents/Reports/ICP-Purchasing-Power-Expenditures/Highlights.pdf

You are intentionally posting from an year where India and Pakistan had more or less same PPP

What you are deliberately leaving out is the trend. In the year 2000 India's Per capital PPP was 10% lower than that of Pakistan. In last 10 years, this number has such changed that in 2008, the PPP per capita of India is 10% higher than that of Pakistan. And this detail is provided by the ADB only which you have been vouching for



Year India Pakistan
2000 1520 1688
2005 2221 2210
2008 2923 2657

http://www.adb.org/Documents/Books/Key_Indicators/2009/xls/RT-2-02.xls


Isee that you have left out the discussion on KSE and BSE.. Hope I was able to demonstrate that I was not fudging the data..

 

[Chiru]

You know about the problems? Then why do you keep denying them? You even questioned the reports by calling them "shoddy". Didn't you? Just go back and look, if you don't believe me.

You said KSE is better investment than BSE. When member questioned you simply ran away. Started changing india shining crap and your favorite toilete topic.

Just go couple of pages back and check.

BTW do you have answer and data for my question asked regarding pakistani open defection.

 

[blueoval79]

This is not a comparison thread.......all 18 pages are full of anti India posts.....by Amusing Haq...

India members should ignore this "you know what" session that Mr Haq is enjoying..... No point wasting your time here....

 

[RiazHaq]

You are intentionally posting from an year where India and Pakistan had more or less same PPP

What you are deliberately leaving out is the trend. In the year 2000 India's Per capital PPP was 10% lower than that of Pakistan. In last 10 years, this number has such changed that in 2008, the PPP per capita of India is 10% higher than that of Pakistan. And this detail is provided by the ADB only which you have been vouching for



Year India Pakistan
2000 1520 1688
2005 2221 2210
2008 2923 2657

http://www.adb.org/Documents/Books/Key_Indicators/2009/xls/RT-2-02.xls

I am not leaving out anything. The links I have provided have all of the data. And the data sows that there essentially little or no difference between the nominal per capita GDP of India and Pakistan. The question then why are the PPP values show a bigger difference? Is there an issue in the PPP computation? I think there is.

The only reason I mention ADB ICP report is because of its detailed explanation and exhaustive methodology they used in 2005-2007, but did not repeat it again. The ADB report clearly shows the deficiencies of the PPP methods used by IMF and World Bank and CIA.

http://www.adb.org/Documents/Reports/ICP-Purchasing-Power-Expenditures/Highlights.pdf

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita

 

[Chiru]

Guys, I am done.

I am putting Haq in my ignore list. I advise my indian friends the same.

 

[karan.1970]

The poverty index you mention is actually called HP-1.

HPI-1 represents a multi-dimensional alternative to the $1.25 a day poverty measure.

As to the below $1.25 poverty line normally used by all others, UNDP report shows India at 41.6 poor population, about twice the poverty rate of 22.6% in Pakistan.

Human Development Report 2009 - Population living below $1.25 a day (%)

So I would rather use a multi dimensional index than a single dimension one.. Simply because $1.25 goes further in India than in Pakistan (that is shown by a higher PPP per capita in india even though OER per capita is more or less same) and much much farther than it goes in the US. So using a multi dimensional index that factors in multiple factors is definitly better than using the one that paints with single broad brush..

From UN site

-------------
Rather than measure poverty by income, the HPI uses indicators of the most basic dimensions of deprivation: a short life, lack of basic education and lack of access to public and private resources. The HPI concentrates on the deprivation in the three essential elements of human life already reflected in the HDI: longevity, knowledge and a decent standard of living. The HPI is derived separately for developing countries (HPI-1) and a group of select high-income OECD countries (HPI-2) to better reflect socio-economic differences and also the widely different measures of deprivation in the two groups.

-------------

 

[karan.1970]

I am not leaving out anything. The links I have provided have all of the data. And the data sows that there essentially little or no difference between the nominal per capita GDP of India and Pakistan. The question then why are the PPP values show a bigger difference? Is there an issue in the PPP computation? I think there is.

The only reason I mention ADB ICP report is because of its detailed explanation and exhaustive methodology they used in 2005-2007, but did not repeat it again. The ADB report clearly shows the deficiencies of the PPP methods used by IMF and World Bank and CIA.

http://www.adb.org/Documents/Reports/ICP-Purchasing-Power-Expenditures/Highlights.pdf

List of countries by GDP (nominal) per capita - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As I said, the year you are showing as the PPP per capita being same for India and Pakistan is the year where all methodologies show the same figure of similarity between India and Pak. Its only if you look at the data (from ADB only) for last 10 years that you realize that the rate at which this number is climbing in Pakistan (5.8%) is significantly lower than the rate in india(8.5%)


and btw is there a source that says ADB did not use that methodology again.. Because the numbers from World Fact book and ADB are different which lends to the belief that they are using different methodologies

 

[Mahakaya]

You know about the problems? Then why do you keep denying them? You even questioned the reports by calling them "shoddy". Didn't you? Just go back and look, if you don't believe me.

The report - had convoluted language which is why I said RE-READ it. I know 55% of Indians defecate in the open and I don't deny it.


ALL YOUR THEORY OF OVER AND UNDERVALUATION IS FLAWED. IT IS SELF CONTRADICTORY GIVEN YOUR VIEWS ON WARREN BUFFETS INVESTMENT METHODOLOGY. ALL PEOPLE RIPPED IT APART AND YOU KEPT CHANGING THE ARGUMENT

YOU FORGOT TO TAKE THE RISK INTO ACCOUNT AND THEN NEVER ANSWERED IT

YOU SAY INDIA IS BORROWING MORE - DO YOU KNOW ALL MAJOR ECONOMIES BORROW - IT IS WHAT YOU CALL THE MARGINS GAME IN THE WORLD OF STOCK MARKETS - THE USofA IS THE BIGGEST DEBTOR IN THE WORLD WITH THEIR DEBT VALUED AT $17 Trillion

EVEN IF I TAKE YOUR ARGUMENT ON PPP - IT SHOWS THAT WITH 6 times more population than UR STATE we still have the same PPP.

PLEASE GO FOR A CHECK UP - IT IS IMPORTANT!

 

[Mahakaya]

The poverty index you mention is actually called HP-1.

HPI-1 represents a multi-dimensional alternative to the $1.25 a day poverty measure.

As to the below $1.25 poverty line normally used by all others, UNDP report shows India at 41.6 poor population, about twice the poverty rate of 22.6% in Pakistan.

Human Development Report 2009 - Population living below $1.25 a day (%)

AGAIN WRONG - YOU CANNOT COMPARE IT ON $1.25 a day basis - What you should rather do is take the absolute figures in Rupees for both countries and then convert it on the basis of PPP to get the right figures.

You views and analysis are flawed!