India suffers another Cheetah crash

[Echo_419]

Nailed it sir! Yes there are still some weak spots (we all know what they are) and these will be addressed in the coming years but the overall health of the military is very good and only getting better year on year.

Let's hope so the new Govt increases the speed of modernization

Playing with the life of men due to red tape should be a hangable offence in any country

I couldn't agree more man

 

[Otocal]

Another HAL product crashes.

 

[Abingdonboy]

And you know who was responsible for that.

Hahaha sir

Well one could also say that these gaps we talk of are also attributable to the same guy


Ah well, It's almost a year since the new GoI took office, time to stop looking back and look to the future. The new DM has his work cut out for him and a bloody long to do list, let's see the GoI/DM put their money where their mouth is.


I think the Rafale deal will indicate where their priorities lay, if they give the nod it is good times for the Indian military as a whole, if they do anything but sign with Dassualt they are putting other considerations above the needs of the military and/or being duped by fallacious claims which will be just as worrying and the Indian military will be in th same mess they have been for the past however many decades.

 

[sancho]

Hahaha sir

Well one could also say that these gaps we talk of are also attributable to the same guy

If the gaps are related to delayed procurements yes, but most of the gaps are based on development or production problems of the industry (Arjun, LCA, IJT, HTT40, Saras, DRDO AWACS, Scorpene), while procurements like the Pilatus trainer, additional MKIs and Mi17, additional Barak 1 missiles as stop gaps were even fast tracked by him to give the forces the "currently good" capability. It's simply a fact, that IAF and IN at least are in a great condition today, except a few fields and that's ac credit one has to give him, no matter if we like him personally or not.

Ah well, It's almost a year since the new GoI took office, time to stop looking back and look to the future. The new DM has his work cut out for him and a bloody long to do list, let's see the GoI/DM put their money where their mouth is.

Yes, but in this few month not much was achieved for the forces either, in fact in terms of defence modernisation, they were rather disappointing without many procurements at all. MMRCA, Apache, Chinook S70, additional C130 (C17 should be out of question by now), A330 MRTT, none of them happend, although 90% got DAC clearances even before the elections, so fixing cleared deals shouldn't take that long and at least some of them could had been fixed so far don't you think?
The Avro replacement is even the prime example that the blame Antony got for so called "indecisiveness" is just BS, since neither the PM Modi, FM/DM Jaitley or the new DM Parrikar seems to be anywhere more successful in getting vendors than Antony was. No movement at all and they now seems to be even stuck in deciding on take the bitter pill and go on with the single vendor solution, so are not able to take a decision since at least November.
And as you know, I was the first that pointed out to the LUH and SSK scrappings as to what they actually are, DELAYS of modernisations and even there, what happened since August? Didn't the reports suggested response of vendors to the RFi should come till November?

I think the Rafale deal will indicate where their priorities lay, if they give the nod it is good times for the Indian military as a whole, if they do anything but sign with Dassualt they are putting other considerations above the needs of the military and/or being duped by fallacious claims which will be just as worrying and the Indian military will be in th same mess they have been for the past however many decades.

Well the Rafale issue can only be blamed on Dassault and the Indian side (from Antony till Parrikar) is very stable in the view that Dassault must comply to the requirements. So that's another issue, but of course a very sad one with all the delays.

 

[Abingdonboy]

MMRCA, Apache, Chinook S70, additional C130 (C17 should be out of question by now), A330 MRTT, none of them happend, although 90% got DAC clearances even before the elections, so fixing cleared deals shouldn't take that long and at least some of them could had been fixed so far don't you think?

You're right, for all the hype around the DAC (which is not the final authority at all) is based on ignorance and overeagerness and not reality and there is actually very little to show for the year just gone by in terms of "big ticket" deals actually being signed.

BUT, I think the signals are much more positive, yes this needs to be back dup with substance sooner rather than later but defence is at least being talked about positively for once (defence is a major area under Make in India, DAC is set to meet more regularly, DPP will be revised perhaps in the current FY and various other positive remarks coming from the MoD) . Let's not forget the new DM has only recently come into office and he said himself he was taking a while to get to grips with the office. IF he clears OROP by March 31st this will be a huge victory in itself casting aside defence procurements. I'm not overly expectant about the next year's defence budget, I don't think we will see a double digit increase as we saw in the UPA-1 years but the first 18 months of the NDA's tenure were always going to be about consolidation and economic growth, once the ball is rolling on the latter the defence budget will swell and that there is a man known for his decisiveness at the head of the MoD to spend all these new funds is only a good thing IMHO.

 

[sancho]

You're right, for all the hype around the DAC (which is not the final authority at all) is based on ignorance and overeagerness and not reality and there is actually very little to show for the year just gone by in terms of "big ticket" deals actually being signed.

BUT, I think the signals are much more positive, yes this needs to be back dup with substance sooner rather than later but defence is at least being talked about positively for once (defence is a major area under Make in India, DAC is set to meet more regularly, DPP will be revised perhaps in the current FY and various other positive remarks coming from the MoD) . Let's not forget the new DM has only recently come into office and he said himself he was taking a while to get to grips with the office. IF he clears OROP by March 31st this will be a huge victory in itself casting aside defence procurements. I'm not overly expectant about the next year's defence budget, I don't think we will see a double digit increase as we saw in the UPA-1 years but the first 18 months of the NDA's tenure were always going to be about consolidation and economic growth, once the ball is rolling on the latter the defence budget will swell and that there is a man known for his decisiveness at the head of the MoD to spend all these new funds is only a good thing IMHO.

Well we need more than positve signals now, the honeymoon is over and I am eagerly waiting for the new budget and actual procurements and fast tracking of defence modernisations, not just PR. But with the government compeletty in election mode in Delhi, I wonder who is working right now to make these credible changes?

 

[OrionHunter]

Indian Armed Forces are in some seriously miserable condition when it comes to equipment

Time to invade India, what?

 

[Abingdonboy]

Well we need more than positve signals now, the honeymoon is over and I am eagerly waiting for the new budget and actual procurements and fast tracking of defence modernisations, not just PR.

True, BUT, I don't think one should underestimate just how important PR is sir especially in shaping industry/market sentiment. Positive hype around India will attract the global arms giants to invest in the Indian defence sector and take advantage of the new FDI caps so I think, to be fair, this hype/PR strategy of Modi is positive for India's defence sector.

Watch this video, the executives from Rockwell Collins' views demonstrate how well received this "Make in India" policy has been by the international industry:

But with the government compeletty in election mode in Delhi, I wonder who is working right now to make these credible changes?

The DM of course? He is a technocrat and to date I haven't seen him wading into this Delhi political drama at all. Hopefully that only has a few days left to cause disruption (polls are this week IIRC).

 

[Imran Khan]

this shit is still flying ?

 

[sancho]

True, BUT, I don't think one should underestimate just how important PR is sir especially in shaping industry/market sentiment. Positive hype around India will attract the global arms giants to invest in the Indian defence sector and take advantage of the new FDI caps so I think, to be fair, this hype/PR strategy of Modi is positive for India's defence sector.

No of course not, that's why I said in the other thread that HAL needs to market itself better too, but PR alone doesn't cut it, both India and HAL needs reforms and better PR, only then they can actually bring change. The PM did great in PR so far in it's foreign tours, but very low on substance. The visit of Obama now, at least added a little substance to the PR, which is a step in the right direction, but not a game changer. Similar HAL are taking the right steps now by reforming themselfs, if they now market themselfs in a better way and understand the need to team up with privat partners, they can come out as the winner of the Make in India agenda, even if it prefers privat industry.

Hopefully that only has a few days left to cause disruption (polls are this week IIRC).

Yes, but still poor for a PM that is urging bureaucrats for attending office at time and actually working for the country, while he and most of his ministers are not.