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India snubs Holbrooke, wants him to stick to Afghanistan-Pakistan

I'm sure the Obama administration will be disgruntled by India's snubbing move against Holbrook. Holbrook was sent by the Obama administration to discuss affairs with India, but just like India does with other regional issues it avoids them. He went there and India says the appropriate officials are not present, that excuse only works once but let's see what happens in the future at Holbrooke's next visit to India.

Let us wait for how the Obama administration reacts.

Disgruntled? I don't think so! Here is how the Obama Administration reacted quite literally as this development came after India snubbing Holbrooke.

US begins preparations to host Prime Minister in November - India - NEWS - The Times of India


WASHINGTON: US has begun preparations to accord a "robust" welcome to Prime Minister Manmohan Singh in November, the first state visit of the Obama administration, to make it a special visit for the Indian leader and a "milestone" event in the Indo-US relationship.

Singh will be in Washington on November 24 in a sign of importance the US attaches to its ties with India.

Assistant secretary of state for South and Central Asia Robert Blake held the first inter-agency meeting in this regard on Wednesday at the state department.

"It was a kick-off meeting for what promises to be a very robust welcome of the Prime Minister, when he lands in Washington in November," a participant of the inter-agency meeting said.

"The brain storming has just begun on how to take the relationship to a brand new level," he said, terming the meeting as very robust.

"This demonstrates the determination of this administration to make the first state visit of Prime Minister, a very special visit," he said.

Besides top officials of the state department, the meeting was attended by senior officials from the department of commerce, US trade development agency, department of energy, US trade representative office and National Security Council.

A key feature of the meeting was participation of private sector representatives.

The Obama administration has already indicated that the private sector would play a central role in moving the relationship forward.

This was amply reflected when secretary of state Hillary Clinton, during her India trip last month spent more time with the private sector in Mumbai, before meeting government officials in New Delhi.

The USIBC synergies summit has three cabinet secretaries, laying out their India agenda to the private sector.

"They are looking for private sector to be the full partners as the Obama administration prepares for the Prime Minister's visits," a participant of the meeting said.

Those involved in preparation of the 2005 state visit of Singh, recalled that it was just a government affair restricted to a small group, unlike this time when a large number of agencies and the private sector have been brought on board at such an early stage.

"The planning meetings have just begun and this is exciting because the private sector has been so engaged so early on," one of the participants said.

"The heartening and gratifying thing to learn is that the state department and this administration fully recognises the importance of the private sector in this relationship," he said.

US begins preparations to host Prime Minister in November - India - NEWS - The Times of India
 
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India is not the dominant power it is a prominent power and is on par with Pakistan and inferior to China. (Nuclear Powers)

Listen that is not the discussion point, besides Holbrooke is known for saying a lot of nonsense bs. Anyways, the interesting thing to note is that the Obama administration is not all too happy about this snubbing move by India against it's special envoy Holbrooke, let's wait to see further developments...

---------- Post added at 04:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:52 PM ----------

India’s stealth lobbying against Holbrooke's brief



Fri, 01/23/2009 - 8:12pm


When Secretary of State Hillary Clinton -- flanked by President Obama -- introduced Richard Holbrooke as the formidable new U.S. envoy to South Asia at a State Department ceremony on Thursday, India was noticeably absent from his title.

Holbrooke, the veteran negotiator of the Dayton accords and sharp-elbowed foreign policy hand who has long advised Clinton, was officially named "special representative for Afghanistan and Pakistan" in what was meant to be one of the signature foreign policy acts of Obama's first week in office.

But the omission of India from his title, and from Clinton's official remarks introducing the new diplomatic push in the region was no accident -- not to mention a sharp departure from Obama's own previously stated approach of engaging India, as well as Pakistan and Afghanistan, in a regional dialogue. Multiple sources told The Cable that India vigorously -- and successfully -- lobbied the Obama transition team to make sure that neither India nor Kashmir was included in Holbrooke's official brief.

"When the Indian government learned Holbrooke was going to do [Pakistan]-India, they swung into action and lobbied to have India excluded from his purview," relayed one source. "And they succeeded. Holbrooke's account officially does not include India."

To many Washington South Asia experts, the decision to not include India or Kashmir in the official Terms of Reference of Holbrooke's mandate was not just appropriate, but absolutely necessary. Given India's fierce, decades-long resistance to any internationalization of the Kashmir dispute, to have done so would have been a non-starter for India, and guaranteed failure before the envoy mission had begun, several suggested.

"Leaving India out of the title actually opens up [Holbrooke's] freedom to talk to them," argued Philip Zelikow, a former counselor to Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice who served until December as a consultant for a lobbying firm, BGR, retained by the Indian Government.

But to others -- including Obama himself, who proposed a special envoy to deal with Kashmir during the campaign -- the region's security challenges cannot be solved without including India. Obama told Time's Joe Klein, that working with Pakistan and India to try to resolve their Kashmir conflict would be a critical task for his administration's efforts to try to counter growing instability in Afghanistan and Pakistan. "Kashmir in particular is an interesting situation where that is obviously a potential tar pit diplomatically," Obama told Klein. "But, for us to devote serious diplomatic resources to get a special envoy in there, to figure out a plausible approach, and essentially make the argument to the Indians, you guys are on the brink of being an economic superpower, why do you want to keep on messing with this? ... I think there is a moment where potentially we could get their attention. It won't be easy, but it's important." Obama also suggested in the interview that he had discussed the special envoy idea with former President Bill Clinton.

Whatever the case, the evidence that India was able to successfully lobby the Obama transition in the weeks before it took office to ensure Holbrooke's mission left them and Kashmir out is testament to both the sensitivity of the issue to India as well as the prowess and sophistication of its Washington political and lobbying operation.

"The Indians freaked out at talk of Bill Clinton being an envoy to Kashmir," said Daniel Markey, a South Asia expert at the Council on Foreign Relations. "The reason they were so worried is they don't want their activities in Kashmir to be equated with what Pakistan is doing in Afghanistan."

"They [India] are the big fish [in the region]," Markey added. "They don't want to be grouped with the 'problem children' in the region, on Kashmir, on nuclear issues. They have a fairly effective lobbying machine. They have taken a lot of notes on the Israel model, and they have gotten better. But you don't want to overstate it. Some of the lobbying effort is obvious, done through companies, but a lot of it is direct government to government contact, people talking to each other. The Indian government and those around the Indian government made clear through a variety of channels because of the Clinton rumors and they came out to quickly shoot that down."

Once Holbrooke's name was floated, the Indian lobbying campaign became even more intense. "The Indians do not like Holbrooke because he has been very good on Pakistan... and has a very good feel for the place" said one former U.S. official on condition of anonymity. "The Indians have this town down."

Initially, when Obama's plans for a corps of special envoys became public after the election, The Cable was told, the idea was for a senior diplomat to tackle the Kashmir dispute as part of the South Asia envoy portfolio and whose mandate would include India. But soon after the election and Holbrooke's name began to appear, the Indians approached key transition officials to make clear that while they could not affect what the new administration did with respect to envoys, that they would expect no mediation on the Kashmir issue.

"I have suggested to others, though not directly to Dick [Holbrooke], that his title should not/not include India, precisely so that he would be freer to work with them," Zelikow said. "If you understand Indian politics, this paradox makes sense."

"I did nothing for the [Government of India] on this," Zelikow added. The Indian government "talked directly to folks on the [Obama] transition team and I heard about it from my Indian friends. I think Holbrooke needs to talk to the Indians. But they are trying, understandably, to break out of being in a hyphenated relationship with America (i.e., comprehended on a mental map called India-Pakistan)."

Other sources said India's hired lobbyists were deployed to shape the contours of the U.S. diplomatic mission. According to lobbying records filed with the Department of Justice, since 2005, the government of India has paid BGR about $2.5 million. BGR officials who currently work on the Indian account, who according to lobbying records include former Sen. Chuck Hagel aide Andrew Parasiliti, former U.S. State Department counterproliferation official Stephen Rademaker, former Bush I and Reagan era White House aide and BGR partner Ed Rogers, and former House Foreign Affairs committee staffer Walker Roberts, did not respond to messages left Friday by Foreign Policy. Former U.S. ambassador to India Robert Blackwill, who previously served as a lobbyist for India, left BGR in 2008 for the Rand Corporation. In addition, the Indian embassy in Washington has paid lobbying firm Patton Boggs $291,665 under a six-month contract that took effect Aug. 18, according to lobbying records.

"BGR has been a registered lobbyist for the Indian government since 2005," noted one Senate staffer on condition of anonymity. "The Indian government retained BGR for the primary purpose of pushing through the Congress the civil nuclear cooperation agreement between the United States and India - hence the strategic hires of Bob Blackwill, the former U.S. Ambassador to India, and Walker Roberts, a senior staffer on the House Foreign Affairs Committee responsible for vetting past such agreements. BGR continues to actively lobby on behalf of the Indian government - their lobbyists sought to influence a recent Senate resolution on the Mumbai attacks. So I would be very surprised if BGR were NOT involved here."

(For its part, Pakistan has spent about $1,175,000, on lobbying during the past year, including on trade issues. That includes Dewey and LeBoeuf's work for the Ministry of Commerce, and Locke Lord's work for the Embassy of Pakistan and the Pakistan International Airlines Corp, according to lobbying records.)

It's not clear to experts and officials interviewed exactly who in the Obama transition team was contacted as part of the Indian lobbying effort. The White House did not respond to queries.

Asked about the decision to exclude India from the special envoy's official mandate, former NSC and CIA official Bruce Riedel, who served as the senior lead of the team advising the Obama campaign on South Asian issues, said by e-mail, "When Senator Clinton originally proposed the envoy idea in her campaign it was only for Afghanistan and Pakistan." He didn't respond to a further query questioning why Clinton's campaign comments on the issue mattered as much as Obama's, since, obviously, it was Obama who won the presidency and ultimately appointed her to carry out his foreign policy as the Obama administration's top diplomat.

UPDATE: An administration official responded that the transition met with no foreign governments and no representatives of foreign governments, pursuant to a policy laid out by the then President-Elect. He further said that it was never the intent for the South Asian envoy portfolio to include an Indian role.


Source: India?s stealth lobbying against Richard Holbrooke - By Laura Rozen | The Cable
 
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Disgruntled? I don't think so! Here is how the Obama Administration reacted quite literally as this development came after India snubbing Holbrooke.

US begins preparations to host Prime Minister in November - India - NEWS - The Times of India

No that is misleading and you are misguided. Those plans for PM Singh to arrive and meet Pres. Obama and his administration were pre-arranged before Holbrooke was snubbed. The Obama administration clearly had planned this set up before this 'snubbing' took place...
 
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Kashmir tops Hoolbrooke’s agenda


Mon, Feb 2, 2009


SRINAGAR: In what could be seen as an embarrassment for the Indian government, Kashmir will top the agenda of Obama’s special envoy to Pakistan and Afghanistan, Richard Holbrooke during his visit to the sub-continent. Richard Holbrooke is expected to undertake a visit to India on February 15 and 16. Television channel CNN-IBN quoting sources said that Kashmir will be one of the agenda’s during Holbrooke’s visit to Kashmir.

“Besides, all the issues related to Pakistan and terror, Holbrooke will also discuss Kashmir issue with the Indian leaders,” the news channel quoting sources said. His discussion on Kashmir can prove embarrassment for the Indian leaders, who had been ‘claiming victory’ after recent statement from Washington that Kashmir does not figure in Holbrooke’s agenda.

Indian leaders had been worried about Holbrooke’s tough-as-nails reputation and want to keep him off from ‘meddling;’ in Kashmir issue. Ambassador Holbrooke is nicknamed “the Bulldozer” for arm-twisting warring leaders to the negotiating table as he hammered out the 1995 Dayton peace accords that ended the war in Bosnia.

The US president, Barrack Hussain Obama during his presidential campaign [SIZE="4"[B][COLOR="Red"]]had said the Kashmir issue was central to any stability in the region[/COLOR][/B][/SIZE]. Obama’s comments had rekindled hopes in Kashmir and Pakistan that the Obama administration might play a greater role in seeking a negotiated settlement to the Kashmir dispute than previous US administrations.

Source: Kashmir tops Hoolbrooke?s agenda


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Now we see why India is avoiding Holbrooke, because India knows Holbrooke wants to discuss Kashmir with them which would internationalize the Kashmir issue and embarrass India world wide.
 
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India is not the dominant power it is a prominent power and is on par with Pakistan and inferior to China. (Nuclear Powers)

You should be proud of yourself for being a loyal friend of China....very loyal words indeed.:lol:

now what was ur point again???:rolleyes:
 
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No that is misleading and you are misguided. Those plans for PM Singh to arrive and meet Pres. Obama and his administration were pre-arranged before Holbrooke was snubbed. The Obama administration clearly had planned this set up before this 'snubbing' took place...

Nope! If you read the article carefully, Holbrooke was snubbed twice. Last time when he visited Pakistan, he wanted to visit India too. Even then India had made the same excuse. The invitation to PM MMS came via Hilary Clinton when she visited India. That was after Holbrooke was snubbed first. The article that I posted in previous post came after Holbrooke was snubbed the second time. Moreover, I haven't heard or read anything yet from the US with regards to these snubbing incidents. Which clearly shows that they want to downplay this issue.
 
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Nope! If you read the article carefully, Holbrooke was snubbed twice. Last time when he visited Pakistan, he wanted to visit India too. Even then India had made the same excuse. The invitation to PM MMS came via Hilary Clinton when she visited India. That was after Holbrooke was snubbed first. The article that I posted in previous post came after Holbrooke was snubbed the second time. Moreover, I haven't heard or read anything yet from the US with regards to these snubbing incidents. Which clearly shows that they want to downplay this issue.

Well what this means is the potential for Pres. Obama and his administration (I'm sure Holbrooke would be present to lead the charge) to discuss regional issues including Kashmir with Indian PM Singh at Washington this November.

So this way you can no longer procrastinate and cower behind excuses, you will have to face some staunch criticism and face punitive policy changes... Do not think this will be a fun party surprise for your turban-wearing Prime Minister. I hope Holbrooke does a decent thing and raises the Kashmir issue with India...
 
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why Holbrooke need to come in person to "update" issues with New Delhi? I think he deserves to get snubbed in this matter. Its allways good to keep a minimum distace in such matters.
 
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Now we see why India is avoiding Holbrooke, because India knows Holbrooke wants to discuss Kashmir with them which would internationalize the Kashmir issue and embarrass India world wide.

Again wrong! India knows Holbrooke wanted to discuss Kashmir which according to our policy is a bilateral issue between India and Pakistan. We will not accept or tolerate any international mediation! period. This is not the first time India has made this clear to the US. It has happened several times with several other people. You only need to look up for the reason why US, specifically Obama and Clinton won't talk about the Kashmir issue.
 
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Well what this means is the potential for Pres. Obama and his administration (I'm sure Holbrooke would be present to lead the charge) to discuss regional issues including Kashmir with Indian PM Singh at Washington this November.

So this way you can no longer procrastinate and cower behind excuses, you will have to face some staunch criticism and face punitive policy changes... Do not think this will be a fun party surprise for your turban-wearing Prime Minister. I hope Holbrooke does a decent thing and raises the Kashmir issue with India...

US rules out interference in Kashmir issue

Obama says US won’t play mediator on Kashmir issue

So you were saying...:coffee:

No one is procrastinating sir! It is a foreign policy issue. And a very strong one. If it appears that the US or any other country is trying to meddle with Kashmir all bets are off. Holbrooke was just trying his luck and testing the waters. He learnt his lesson the hard way. Hope Mr. Obama doesn't make the same mistake. So far he hasn't. But if he does, mark my words, the 'turban wearing PM' conjure something out of his turban to bury the issue there itself.
 
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US rules out interference in Kashmir issue

Obama says US won’t play mediator on Kashmir issue

So you were saying...:coffee:

No one is procrastinating sir! It is a foreign policy issue. And a very strong one. If it appears that the US or any other country is trying to meddle with Kashmir all bets are off. Holbrooke was just trying his luck and testing the waters. He learnt his lesson the hard way. Hope Mr. Obama doesn't make the same mistake. So far he hasn't. But if he does, mark my words, the 'turban wearing PM' conjure something out of his turban to bury the issue there itself.


I've already read those sources, though it appears you have failed to read my previous post when I posted an article saying

"I have suggested to others, though not directly to Dick [Holbrooke], that his title should not/not include India, precisely so that he would be freer to work with them," Zelikow said. "If you understand Indian politics, this paradox makes sense."


You really ought to improve your methods of study and research. Just because Holbrooke is not 'officially' given the Kashmir objective, does not mean he personally will not discuss it with the Indians, his personality, past, and merits suggests he will. This is why the Indians spent millions of USD lobbying in Washington to avert Holbrooke being officially assigned to deal with Kashmir. This will in all likelihood give Holbrooke more of a freedom to discuss Kashmir with the Indians privately and personally... Though this is how desperate India is, and we see this pathetic display of India cowering behind excuses to avoid discussion on regional issues, and this is how you are supposedly working for peace in the region?:disagree:
 
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India is not the dominant power it is a prominent power and is on par with Pakistan and inferior to China. (Nuclear Powers)

A 1.2 trillion economy with 8% growth is not comparable to Pakistan.

As for the Holbrooke visit...Democrats in power have never been good for India. Expect relations to go south very soon with Obama in power.
 
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What if there is another Mumbai type attack and the attack can be said to have been "planned" in Pakistan ??-- Indian Premier is claiming that credible information suggest that such a attack is imminent.

Then Holbrooke or not, what will have to be done to bring Pakistani politicians and media talking heads to their senses??
 
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That depends on what weapons India decides to buy from the US. A few transport aircrafts or helis or recon aircrafts are not going to be enough for the US to wield its influence on us. In India we believe that we have already done enough give and take. There is nothing that the Americans can offer us that we can’t do without or can’t get from a third source. In essence the Indian foreign policy is not up for sale and it has been made clear to the US on this occasion and several other occasions in no ambiguous language!

Wao.. that was screaming!
 
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