India should give Pakistan a last chance. Let the guns do the talking then

[uparyupari]

Eewww.

Rainwater harvesting

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Yup that is the reason behind all his brain farts.

Brain farts can't be detected. Come on. Simply because there is no flatulence in the world whose source is the brain.

 

[Areesh]

Indus water levels are going down every year, pakistan is on record stating that ............. bacha to najaiz paida ho gaya miya. Shadi ki koi zaroorat nahi.

Ab tho bacha sambhalo.

Yeah that's why the rivers are flooded even right now. The fact is that Pakistan is getting its share of water till now. It is you bharatis who are just dreaming to teach Pakistan a lesson with blocking its water since all other options of aggression are not possible.

Aur main nai to misaal di thi. Tum nai apni paidaish ka bata dia. Ajeeb baihooda aadmi ho. Ghar ki baatain yahan bata rahi ho.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

SarthakGanguly, I hear you have been saying that you can block the Indus yourself, with one hand!

Well, I did that when I was a kid. But decided to have mercy on both India and Pakistan.

Rainwater harvesting

Oh yes, of course. I thought....

 

[Areesh]

Brain farts can't be detected.

Yes they can be. One just needs to hear to his speech to detect it.

 

[waz]

LOL.... still chanting China ?

Here are some fun facts for you,

Pakistan and India in Dam Building Race — Interpreting the Indus Waters Treaty | Circle of Blue WaterNews

The slow and dangerous death of Pakistan’s Indus river delta - Quartz

Enjoy slow death.

Still here then? I thought you were busying drying the Indus.

I guess you didn't read the link well yourself.

Climate change and bad policies are wreaking havoc over Pakistan’s Indus river delta.

The other link is even better. India constructing dams for energy and the report ends with this;

Cleveland State professor Zawahri thinks both sides still benefit from the agreement: “As long as they continue to use the conflict resolution mechanisms available in the treaty, the treaty will survive. So I don’t see this dispute as the end of the Indus Waters Treaty. On the contrary, both states have an interest in maintaining it.”

Oh and it's 5 years old.....

Slow death. In your dreams.

 

[SwAggeR]

Well big man, the subject is indeed IOK, but some losers can't resist taking cheap shots on Pakistan, in fact, it's in Bharti psyche to demean others as it gives them some comfort in otherwise their grudge for repeatedly being shown the birdie by smaller neighbours. Wonder how it must feel when your atoot ang openly burns your taranga and shows you the Pakistani colours....forget facing up to your neighbours, damn even the rag tag Kashmiris are beginning to give you a bloody nose.
Damn, who could oppose this stale mate.

You are clutching at straws . Everyone knows that areas is disturbed area , there ought to be fringe elements. Every disturbed area has them otherwise it won't be called disturbed , isn' it ??? You as Pakistani shouldn't get your hopes high as last election of 2014 saw pretty healthy turnout and our right wing party BJP is rightnow sharing power over there.

But your government which is eager to meet non-elected Kashmiri ditches the elected Kashmiri, that's why I guess conglomerate of democratic countries ditched your country and got the venue for Commonwealth parliamentary meet shifted out.

I tried to put it in simplest way. If you still can't get it then may Allah help you.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Yes they can be. One just needs to hear to his speech to detect it.

Brain fart detector detected.

 

[Areesh]

Brain fart detector detected.

Told you. You would detect it whenever you would listen to his speech.

 

[uparyupari]

Yeah that's why the rivers are flooded even right now. The fact is that Pakistan is getting its share of water till now. It is you bharatis who are just dreaming to teach Pakistan a lesson with blocking its water since all other options of aggression are not possible.

Aur main nai to misaal di thi. Tum nai apni paidaish ka bata dia. Ajeeb baihooda aadmi ho. Ghar ki baatain yahan bata rahi ho.

Yes, the combination of floods and drought which does the maximum damage ............. both can be controlled wonderfully by Dams.

And you are right, why choose other forms of aggression when this one gives you maximum bang for the buck ?

Still here then? I thought you were busying drying the Indus.

I guess you didn't read the link well yourself.

Climate change and bad policies are wreaking havoc over Pakistan’s Indus river delta.

The other link is even better. India constructing dams for energy and the report ends with this;

Cleveland State professor Zawahri thinks both sides still benefit from the agreement: “As long as they continue to use the conflict resolution mechanisms available in the treaty, the treaty will survive. So I don’t see this dispute as the end of the Indus Waters Treaty. On the contrary, both states have an interest in maintaining it.”

Oh and it's 5 years old.....

Slow death. In your dreams.

LOL.... the GoI will do that in my absence

I did say, the drop in Indus water will be due to "climatic changes" ........... see ? Its just as I predicted. We are open to discussing "climate change" with pakistan

Cleveland professsors do not speak for the GoI ...... or do you think they do ? .... we have a larger interesting in ending Terrorism.

 

[fatman17]

MINHAZ MERCHANT
@minhazmerchant

Nursing a sore throat, Prime Minister Narendra Modi sat down to do a television interview just before campaigning for the 2014 Lok Sabha general election ended. His voice was hoarse, but the message clear. "Terror and talks," he told the interviewer when asked about his Pakistan policy, can't go hand in hand.

Speaking in Hindi, he added words to this effect: "Can you hear each other over the sound of gunfire?"

This Sunday (August 23), National Security Advisor Ajit Doval will host his Pakistani counterpart Sartaj Aziz (who is also Pakistan's foreign affairs advisor) in New Delhi for talks. Meanwhile, Pakistani Rangers have launched multiple attacks in Jammu and Kashmir across the Line of Control (LoC) and the International Border (IB). Nearly 20 Indians - jawans and civilians - have been killed, including women and children. Before this spate of ceasefire violations, terrorists supported by the Pakistan army had attacked police posts in Gurdaspur and Udhampur killing several policemen and injuring many more.

So what will Doval and Aziz talk about this coming Sunday?

Doval will hand over another dossier of Pakistani complicity in the recent terror attacks.

Aziz will raise Kashmir.

Doval will question the release of 26/11 mastermind Zakiur Rehman Lakhvi.

Aziz will raise Samjhauta and Aseemanand.

Doval will complain about constant ceasefire violations by Pakistan across the LoC and IB.

Aziz will raise Siachen and Sir Creek.

In this dialogue of the deaf, nothing concrete can emerge. Aziz will return to Pakistan on Monday, August 24, smug in the satisfaction that he has achieved what he set out to: establishing Pakistani credibility, equivalence and legitimacy.

Examine each. Every time India engages with Pakistan, it enhances Islamabad's credibility at home and internationally. Its army and proxies kill Indians and yet India sits across the table to talk to it, extending to it full diplomatic courtesies. Pakistan punches above its weight just as India punches well below its.

Equivalence, after credibility, is what Pakistan craves most. By raising Samjhauta, it seeks to downplay 26/11 though the scale and degree of the two attacks were vastly different. For Pakistan, parity with India is an obsession. It knows its economy is one-ninth India's, its annual GDP growth half India's. It also knows that homegrown terror outfits like the Tehreek-e-Taliban and the growing Baloch insurgency could cut its territory into half over the next decade. Clinging to the mirage of parity with India keeps the "idea of Pakistan" alive though its expiry date looms ever-closer.

The Pakistani army and Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) treat talks with India as a means to legitimise such false equivalence. There is a school of thought in India which believes the Pakistani army has ratcheted up terror attacks and ceasefire violations because Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif had weakened Pakistan's position in his meeting with Prime Minister Narendra Modi at Ufa, Russia. This line of thinking suggests that recent Pakistani attacks are meant to sabotage the NSA talks on Sunday. Pakistan's invitation to Hurriyat separatists to meet Sartaj Aziz during his visit to Delhi reinforces this belief.

In reality the Pakistani army wants talks-and-terror to go hand in hand. It will needle India with the pre-talks Hurriyat invitation, ceasefire violations and terror attacks. It knows that the peace constituency in India remains strong, even within the Modi government. This emboldens it to engage in grandstanding. With or without talks - if India is forced to cancel them - Pakistan establishes its relevance.

For a failed, rogue nation, that is an achievement - and an indictment of India's poorly crafted Pakistan policy.

The Pakistani view

Domestic opinion in Pakistan is sharply divided over India. Brainwashed by anti-Indian history books in school and anti-India propaganda in the media, most Pakistanis fear Indian hegemony. Equivalence, however mythical, is the opium the Pakistani establishment and media anaesthetises them with.

For the Pakistani army, a mix of terror and talks is exactly what it wants. It keeps India off-balance and domestic public opinion happy. Aid-givers China and the United States know the game Islamabad is playing with its talks-and-terror-go-together strategy. Both pay lip service to India's anger over Pakistan-sponsored terror attacks and ceasefire violations but advise calm. It suits Washington's and Beijing's realpolitik to keep a rising power like India in check.

Should Doval look forward to a meaningful dialogue with Aziz on Sunday? Or will it give Pakistan the global photo-op it craves - and claim the make-believe equivalence with India that it craves even more?

India's position is that by engaging with Pakistan, New Delhi can corner Islamabad on its terror agenda. That's wishful thinking. India has been engaging Pakistan in such talks to achieve just such an objective for a over a decade. It hasn't worked. Pakistan will not confine NSA level talks to terrorism. It will raise J&K, Siachen, Sir Creek, Balochistan, Karachi and Samjhauta.

So should India give Pakistan the opportunity it seeks to establish legitimacy and equivalence?

Pakistan is fighting home-bred terror as well as an escalating freedom movement in its largest province Balochistan. Continuing a structured dialogue with Pakistan gives Islamabad a veil of respectability to cloak its terrorism. India should instead concentrate on strengthening its economy and military, implementing the proposal to build a new high-tech fence on the LoC that will make infiltration much harder, enhancing its covert operational capability behind enemy lines, and isolating Pakistan internationally. Playing nice with Islamabad has always backfired. Doval and Prime Minister Modi know this.

C Christine Fair, assistant professor in the Security Studies Program at Georgetown University's Edmund A Walsh School of Foreign Service, questions India's keenness to continue talking to Pakistan - and its futility. She explains how the United States has helped feed the false equivalence between India and Pakistan and what India's options are - beyond talks:

"Much of this coverage of the so-called India-Pakistan conflict is deeply problematic in that writers, perhaps with good intentions, seek to impose a false equivalence on both nations' conduct, giving the impression that India and Pakistan contribute equally to the fraught situation that currently exists.

"This is dangerously untrue and feeds into a policy-process that has failed to come to terms with the most serious problem in South Asia: Pakistan. Such coverage also rewards Pakistan for its malfeasance by attributing blame to India in equal share and thus legitimizing Pakistan's ill-found grievances. The only parties who benefit from such an understanding of the 'Indo-Pakistan' dispute are the Pakistan military and its terrorist proxies.

"Curiously, all of the factors that allow Pakistan to use non-state actors to coerce India with impunity in principle should allow India to do the same. However, India has been remarkably constrained in the face of decades of Pakistani provocation. Incidentally, few media accounts of this dispute acknowledge this… After all, India's own nuclear arsenal, larger conventional capabilities, large economy, and more reputable standing in the comity of nations arguably position it to reciprocate in similar ways. Pakistan has no paucity of ethnic, sectarian, and socio-economic fissures that could be exploited by Indian covert operations and funds. Moreover, India enjoys much better ties with all of Pakistan's neighbours with the exception of China and could easily be more aggressive in using these neighbouring states to return the favours that Pakistan has bestowed upon India since 1947. Yet it hasn't.

"The current government… seems less insouciant about Pakistan's behavior and seems more inclined to find ways of punishing Pakistan for such outrages and deterring it in the future. The country's National Security Advisor, Ajit Doval, is a decorated veteran of India's intelligence community. This government, under Narendra Modi, responded very aggressively to shelling across the international border in Kashmir in the fall of 2014. Moreover, Doval very provocatively warned the Pakistanis that if they conduct another attack like Mumbai, Pakistan will lose Balochistan."

Doval is a hawk on Pakistan. So is the prime minister. Both though are pragmatic. They have responded robustly, as Christine Fair notes, to Pakistani ceasefire violations with "disproportionate" retaliation. Both men know where a red line, once drawn, must not be crossed.

When he meets Aziz, Doval should stop exchanging dossiers. His message should be short and sharp: "Last chance. After this, our guns will do the talking."

India should give Pakistan a last chance. Let the guns do the talking then
@nair @GURU DUTT @Oscar @Horus @fatman17 @syedali73 @Arsalan @Gufi @Areesh @A.Rafay @AUz @ares @Chanakya's_Chant @IND151 @Water Car Engineer @third eye @SpArK @AUSTERLITZ @Rashid Mahmood

 

[OrionHunter]

For the Pakistani army, a mix of terror and talks is exactly what it wants. It keeps India off-balance and domestic public opinion happy. Aid-givers China and the United States know the game Islamabad is playing with its talks-and-terror-go-together strategy. Both pay lip service to India's anger over Pakistan-sponsored terror attacks and ceasefire violations but advise calm. It suits Washington's and Beijing's realpolitik to keep a rising power like India in check.

I disagree! Pakistan is in absolutely no position to 'keep India in check'. It's like asking an ant to keep an elephant in check!!

 

[Pakistan First]

I disagree! Pakistan is in absolutely no position to 'keep India in check'. It's like asking an ant to keep an elephant in check!!

And we all know what an ant can do to the elephant.

Let the guns do the talking? What these RATs need to realise is that they are talking about confrontation with a military which is at the moment, well-prepared, well-equipped and well-integrated into a well-oiled-war machinery. Their morale is high backed with continuous wins in one of the most hostile areas and conditions.

This rat-infested nation on our eastern border should have by now realised that a confrontation with PAKISTAN can mean only one thing:

MUTUALLY ASSURED DESTRUCTION (MAD)

.... and it seems the Modi sarkar is in a hurry to take India towards that.


Having said that, and as much as I am a believer of peace (but at the same time a believer of "walking softly while carrying a big stick"), I have a feeling that both nations are on a collision course. Indians have their Akhud Bharat dream while we Pakistanis have our Ghazwa-e-Hind prophecy which we await.

On an ending note, Indian military think tanks should not forget to factor in the fact in their whole war strategies that a huge part of Pakistan's civilian population owns/possesses and knows how to use firearms. The local-militia factor in the event of a war with HINDustan will draw high numbers of volunteers from the civilian population. Just in one city of Pakistan (namely Karachi), there are over half a million civilians who legally own and know how to use firearms, let alone the number of people who possess firearms without licenses. Now factor in all other major rural and urban areas of the country including that of Punjab (Pakistan's largest province) and also factor in the northern belt (KPK). They are actually looking at confrontation with a nation in which over 45 million men are fit for service, which has over half million of active reserves and over half million of front line personnel.

No matter what India's size is..... with a country like Pakistan, any direct confrontation will mean MAD.

ALLAH HU AKBAR!

 

[Indian Jatt]

India was given another decade hoping you would go towards peaceful path but there is none. Kashmir has to unite with Pakistan and India will have to decide when will it let it go.. before war or after that.

Kashmir will only have two status, either it will stay with India or it will become azaad Kashmir.......it wont become part of Pakistan.....

 

[graphican]

Kashmir will only have two status, either it will stay with India or it will become azaad Kashmir.......it wont become part of Pakistan.....

Its not upto India to decide its possible statuses.