India should consider sub-conventional warfare against Pakistan

[CIS-TRANS]

US is seller they will sooner or later sells its defense equipment from where ever it gets money it also gives them political leverage over the buyer, in India's they certainly need that. Avengers and S-400 will definitely come so does news of drone strikes inside pakistani occ kashmir.

US is a country, it has a very clear policy known as CAATSA, India is no special for them as long you continue with neutral policy for Russia. US has shown it in current trade war when they imposed tariff against india that is why indian economist have suggested to offer kind of bribe in form of purchasing 1000 civilian aircraft and step up oil and gas purchase from US in upcoming 2+2 dialogues. When Europe is showing resistance to US and Russia, China are increasing their influence, United states expect a lot more from india instead of just trade offers when other countries have more to offer to US, If india failed to meet their desired expectations then forget predator and expect more tariff and sanctions, The power balance of world is shifting again.

 

[indianfighter1999]

US is a country, it has a very clear policy known as CAATSA, India is no special for them as long you continue with neutral policy for Russia. US has shown it in current trade war when they imposed tariff against india that is why indian economist have suggested to offer kind of bribe in form of purchasing 1000 civilian aircraft and step up oil and gas purchase from US in upcoming 2+2 dialogues. When Europe is showing resistance to US and Russia, China are increasing their influence, United states expect a lot more from india instead of just trade offers when other countries have more to offer to US, If india failed to meet their desired expectations then forget predator and expect more tariff and sanctions, The power balance of world is shifting again.

US still wants leverage on India on pakistan on turkey best way is selling weapons and keeping leverage not selling weapons and imposing tariffs makes no sense when thr is no leverage all these countries will go into anti american direction this is not how diplomacy works. Us will sell avengers to India, vipers to pakistan and F-35 to turkey.

 

[waz]

Cruise missiles wont carry strategic nukes its either fighter plane or ballistic missile. Fighter planes has little or no chance to reach delhi. Ballistic missile that too IRBMs in thousand is not possible the best a country like pakistan with 300 billion GDP can muster at best 100 IRBMs the same number as India I am assuming here.
100 IRBms with plenty more area targets. The system can not be saturated by this number of missiles. Border areas I can still beleive pakistan can have the ability using ballistic trajectory of small missile. But most of Indian megalopolises are more than 1000 kms away Delhi too is in that range.
Regarding the advancement of tech. yes I can assume an ICBMs can muster the velocity and has enough carry weight to stoer MARV MIRVs but assuming an IRBM can do the same is fallacy. pakistan is still a generations behind what russian have achieved in ballistic missile certainly russia can counter ABMs but pakistan has pretty less chance with the resources and specially the geography in question, India has unique advantage to target pakistani IRBms in boost phase which itself is huge advantage for an ABM, an ABM loves a solo target cruising above in thin or zero air with steady trajectory.

Cruise missiles will carry tactical nukes, which one is of course is not known. Pakistan doesn't have a GDP of 300 billion at the moment it is higher and of course I'm speculating here but with the correct growth and governance the nation will surge economically. Pakistan doesn't need all of its missiles to be IRBM's either, as the two countries are very close geographically, SRBM's will be used for Northern India.
Dude the distance from Delhi to Lahore is 409Km....Not a 1,000.
Pakistan is catching up fast and will deploy multiple warheads on shorter range weapons, the Ababeel came as a surprise, and you also have to remember the Chinese can and will give great assistance in this regard so the Russian timelines are not comparable as they had to do things from scratch.
As for the boost phase I'm sorry but the envelope for a successful intercept is just a mere few minutes at best, and requires an incredibly fast reaction time, made worse by how close the countries are i.e. little warning time. The flight path during this phase also has an uneven flight due to shifts in acceleration and changes in stages, which makes it very hard to intercept. The US faces challenges in this regard so India doesn't even figure in the equation.

 

[indianfighter1999]

Cruise missiles will carry tactical nukes, which one is of course is not known. Pakistan doesn't have a GDP of 300 billion at the moment it is higher and of course I'm speculating here but with the correct growth and governance the nation will surge economically. Pakistan doesn't need all of its missiles to be IRBM's either, as the two countries are very close geographically, SRBM's will be used for Northern India.
Dude the distance from Delhi to Lahore is 409Km....Not a 1,000.
Pakistan is catching up fast and will deploy multiple warheads on shorter range weapons, the Ababeel came as a surprise, and you also have to remember the Chinese can and will give great assistance in this regard so the Russian timelines are not comparable as they had to do things from scratch.
As for the boost phase I'm sorry but the envelope for a successful intercept is just a mere few minutes at best, and requires an incredibly fast reaction time, made worse by how close the countries are i.e. little warning time. The flight path during this phase also has an uneven flight due to shifts in acceleration and changes in stages, which makes it very hard to intercept. The US faces challenges in this regard so India doesn't even figure in the equation.

Tactical nukes doesnt concern India, only the strategic nukes are concern. again pakistan will never do stupidity to fire nukes from lahore it gives India easy target in boost phase even regular air defense missiles can lock a ballistic missile in boost phase I am assuming pakistan might fire nuke somewhat farther than border. Again saying that the advantage is with ballistic missile in distance is wrong the radars can get easy lock in second once a ballistic missile goes beyond few kms in atmosphere the multiple ABMs will be send in that direction with in seconds. Again SRBMs north India has mainly delhi rest of cities are too smaller by economic comparison. Most of Indian economy is good 1000 kms away from pakistan. SRBMs + IRBMs how many can pakistan deploy I assume 300-500 SRMbs with ranges from 500-1000 thats too much by pakistani economy size but we assume and IRBMs at most 100. For every single ballistic missile India can field thrice the number of ABMs or more. The Radar systems can nowadays detect a golf ball space debris in space and keep a lock on 100s at same time.
The computational power is this much that modern systems are impossible to be saturated. The limit do come when ABMs are to be targeted but again India can deploy far more ABMs than pakistan can deploy BMs on top of that in seconds India will identify that ballistic missile are being launched same time India will respond with massive retaliation.

 

[waz]

Tactical nukes doesnt concern India, only the strategic nukes are concern. again pakistan will never do stupidity to fire nukes from lahore it gives India easy target in boost phase even regular air defense missiles can lock a ballistic missile in boost phase I am assuming pakistan might fire nuke somewhat farther than border. Again saying that the advantage is with ballistic missile in distance is wrong the radars can get easy lock in second once a ballistic missile goes beyond few kms in atmosphere the multiple ABMs will be send in that direction with in seconds. Again SRBMs north India has mainly delhi rest of cities are too smaller by economic comparison. Most of Indian economy is good 1000 kms away from pakistan. SRBMs + IRBMs how many can pakistan deploy I assume 300-500 SRMbs with ranges from 500-1000 thats too much by pakistani economy size but we assume and IRBMs at most 100. For every single ballistic missile India can field thrice the number of ABMs or more. The Radar systems can nowadays detect a golf ball space debris in space and keep a lock on 100s at same time.
The computational power is this much that modern systems are impossible to be saturated. The limit do come when ABMs are to be targeted but again India can deploy far more ABMs than pakistan can deploy BMs on top of that in seconds India will identify that ballistic missile are being launched same time India will respond with massive retaliation.

Tactical nukes can shatter military and civilian infrastructure, they're not designed for mass damage. Who said Pakistan will fire nukes from Lahore? I pointed out how you got the distance wrong and SRBM's are effective against large parts of Northern India. I already pointed out how hitting a missile from the boost phase is difficult, it's something India cannot do.
As for fielding a large amount of missiles Pakistan has been at production for decades now so numbers are not a problem. You can field as many ABM's as possible hitting opposing missile is another thing. In terms of economics as well you will simply have to deploy missiles in the tens of thousands to be even mildly effective, something beyond your resources.
When India identifies a missile launch it will respond with massive force but massive force will already be hitting India anyway, virtually all of it getting through, so the whole thing is a mute point.

 

[indianfighter1999]

Tactical nukes can shatter military and civilian infrastructure, they're not designed for mass damage. Who said Pakistan will fire nukes from Lahore? I pointed out how you got the distance wrong and SRBM's are effective against large parts of Northern India. I already pointed out how hitting a missile from the boost phase is difficult, it's something India cannot do.
As for fielding a large amount of missiles Pakistan has been at production for decades now so numbers are not a problem. You can field as many ABM's as possible hitting opposing missile is another thing. In terms of economics as well you will simply have to deploy missiles in the tens of thousands to be even mildly effective, something beyond your resources.
When India identifies a missile launch it will respond with massive force but massive force will already be hitting India anyway, virtually all of it getting through, so the whole thing is a mute point.

Again you have biases first against ABM tech. and second against Indian capabilities. Whatever I have assumed from pakistani end is far beyond pakistan's capacity and capability. In truth India's systems are being set up to counter much bigger adversary than pakistan. pakistan in no scenario is at advantage conventional or sub-conventional or nuclear.
Indian ABMs are maturing much faster than pakistani BMs also Indian economic ability is giving tremendous impetus to much sophisticated defense tech. the gap will only widen on future.

 

[waz]

Again you have biases first against ABM tech. and second against Indian capabilities. Whatever I have assumed from pakistani end is far beyond pakistan's capacity and capability. In truth India's systems are being set up to counter much bigger adversary than pakistan. pakistan in no scenario is at advantage conventional or sub-conventional or nuclear.
Indian ABMs are maturing much faster than pakistani BMs also Indian economic ability is giving tremendous impetus to much sophisticated defense tech. the gap will only widen on future.

I'm not bias I'm stating its performance so far in real-time conflicts and it hasn't been great. Yes you are assuming, but not just about Pakistan but also about India'a capabilities i.e. speaking about systems which are not in operation/are on the drawing page.
As for a bigger adversary this is China right? Do you seriously think that you can counter China? A nation which is years ahead in terms of weapons ability/development and can utilise resources that India will never be able to. Forget about missile defence against them.
India's ABM is not maturing faster than Pakistan's BM, you simply made that up.
India does have a great economic ability and in this realm equalisers can be developed with lesser resources, you only need to refer to the age old battle between armour and projectile.

 

[CIS-TRANS]

US still wants leverage on India on pakistan on turkey best way is selling weapons and keeping leverage not selling weapons and imposing tariffs makes no sense when thr is no leverage all these countries will go into anti american direction this is not how diplomacy works. Us will sell avengers to India, vipers to pakistan and F-35 to turkey.

You really don’t understand, your whole post is based on hypothetical assumption while completely ignoring the statements of US officials, what you think doesn’t matter here but they say and what they do really matters here.

 

[xyxmt]

Pakistan should write them a formal letter of consideration because whatever Pakistan is doing is not working

 

[randomradio]

Indian Army Chief

NEW DELHI: Having deterrence is not an assurance to no wars, said Indian Army chief General Bipin Rawat here on Wednesday. According to him, due to Pakistan’s proxy war and China’s muscle flexing, there is scope of conflicts which can break into an all-out war.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...my-chief-bipin-rawat/articleshow/60396549.cms

Indian Air Chief

NEW DELHI: The Indian Air Force effectively achieved relocation and re-balancing of its assets from one sector to another during a just concluded mega exercise, Air Chief Marshal BS Dhanoa said on Monday, hinting at its preparedness to deal with a two-front war.

The IAF carried out Gagan Shakti exercise -- the biggest such drill in three decades -- from April 8 to April 20 with a focus on borders with China and Pakistan.

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/air...-war-after-gagan-shakti-mega-exercise-1841708

Sorry to burst your bubble! Its a good thing your a NOBODY and your Military Chief's know the real threats for India better than you.

They are both saying nuclear weapons won't stop war from happening.

This Article was written in 2014 and a French Airforce Officer was trying to sell Rafales to indians. Offcourse he will say the rafales are Best! Its a marketing gimmick and you Bharati fell for it so much that you started claiming your indian rafales are better than F 22. No where in the article he mentions F 22 because you dont know Jack Sh!t about F 22. The French Airforce Officer might have promised you endlesss supply of cow piss and cow dung too so i guess thats why your always pulling this nonsense on PDF.

A NATO officer doesn't know about the F-22, sell your dung to someone who wants it.

And the Americans arent just praising rafales in general but they are actually praising the rafales Indians are getting right???
The whole USAF is shivering and scared of 36 rafales India is getting.

USAF pilots were talking about the French Rafales they exercised with in the US.

 

[khanmubashir]

Us has offered India PAC-3 but its lower tier ABM only takes care of missiles in terminal phase, India is interested in Thaad which will never be offered S-400 longer range missiles are counter to Thaad.
Indians own PAD and AAD are counter to Pac-3 system, PDVs versions will match S-400 and Thaad.
PAC-3 are total hit in Saudi they want more Pac-3 missiles earlier PAC-2 missiles were failing Pac-3 are hitting ballistic missiles 8 out of 10 times.
Nuclear winter will not be caused by few 100 sub megaton warheads ever one need 100s of 100 megaton warheads to cause that that wil generate enough energy like an big Astroid strike so that dust can engulf Earth to cause nuclear winter. This is called winter cause of dust not of radiations its assumed the dust will stop Sun's rays to reach Earth then plant life will die and then foodchain.
And for open source this site is pretty accurate.

So now your pad is patriot equal
S400 is well recorded in Syria
And the dust won't just be because of initial impact but as scientists model also because of super fires it would unleash as modern cities petroleum plastic paper crops r all inflammable material FYI the asteroid impact wasnt just climate change but mega extinction event for planet earth a nuclear winter would be lower then that but can still cause global famines and pandemic due to climate change which would mostly detrimental to human life but less so for other life the asteroid impact made a perpetual subzero cold night for several decades by scientists model

Nobody thinks there will be such conflict but huge industries from a century is working on these tech. if you think ABM is not matured enough then we are in disagreement here, the tech. is maturing every single year, there are missiles in service which can take out low flying cruise missile there are systems like Thaad that can take out ICBMs, PAT-3s are taking the ballistic missile with ease in saudi arab. Iron domes are taking our suppressed trajectory rockets getting better every day.
India has alread deployed ABMs near pakistan
http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2017/08/india-to-deploy-two-ballistic-missile.html

Pakistan doesnt have the capability to saturate a multi layers ABM and ADS in Delhi which is 600-700 kms from pakistani border. How many ballistic missile can pakistan muster to attack a single city 10-20-40 ballistic missiles? India can take care of all of them wont feel saturated.

There are Tank protection systems being deployed, the ABMs has matured taking out non-stealth fighter planes are easy task now, most of the ADS and ABMs are more focused on missiles.

Delhi is 600 km away from pak border ????
is it in west Bengal I thought u were an ignorant stupid but turns out u r also a retard who doesn't even know geography of his own Capital and imitating to be a nuclear and missile expert that why u Indian e the most ignorant country In world
@waz

 

[IndianIronFist]

Arm chair generals need to sit down and just watch what’s happening. In a nuclear war, both Pakistan and India will be obliterated. One Muslim country will disappear, but the only Hindu country will also be gone. Hindutva and Hinduism will end forever, Islam will live on and find new impetus for growth.

Seems our Pakistani brothers have just elevated to higher forms of hallucinating drugs !! Kya phoonkte ho bhaijaan ? Jab Indian Army pelegi tab yeh blog yaad rakhna !!!

 

[Daghalodi]

They are both saying nuclear weapons won't stop war from happening.

Oye Ch--Tiye!! Both your Military Chiefs are saying India faces a threat from Pakistan and China not Pakistan alone.

A NATO officer doesn't know about the F-22, sell your dung to someone who wants it.

NO NATO officer or Air Cheif oF France is talking about F22 you Indian Cuck!! They were selling rafales to you indian monkeys so he said this the best plane for you guys,thats a marketing gimmick you Ch--t piece!! you went on scratching your balls around the PDF saying your rafales are better than F22.

USAF pilots were talking about the French Rafales they exercised with in the US.

The French increased the price of Planes for you indians, they want to milk the indian cow same as the Russians are doing. Just because a Pilot Praises a Rafale doesnt mean it becomes better than F 22

GO back to smelling and eating your cow dung bharati!!! Your stench is overwhelming

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Seems like India is on the path of self destruction. Hindutva bhakts are going to break India into pieces.

Thank you Quaid e Azam and Allama Iqbal.

 

[indianfighter1999]

So now your pad is patriot equal
S400 is well recorded in Syria
And the dust won't just be because of initial impact but as scientists model also because of super fires it would unleash as modern cities petroleum plastic paper crops r all inflammable material FYI the asteroid impact wasnt just climate change but mega extinction event for planet earth a nuclear winter would be lower then that but can still cause global famines and pandemic due to climate change which would mostly detrimental to human life but less so for other life the asteroid impact made a perpetual subzero cold night for several decades by scientists model


Delhi is 600 km away from pak border ????
is it in west Bengal I thought u were an ignorant stupid but turns out u r also a retard who doesn't even know geography of his own Capital and imitating to be a nuclear and missile expert that why u Indian e the most ignorant country In world
@waz

tone down u inbred retard, I have been avoiding to reply coz of ur comprehension issues but u have gone far beyond now, Delhi is indeed less than 600 kms closer to 400-450 air distance. But pakistan army is not retarded like urself so avoid firing missiles from straight up to border which Indian forces would have overwhelmed already. the firing distance will be such that ballistic missiles will be fired farther from border so the missiles could not be targetted in boost phase so I assumed a missile battery with nukes will be atleast 200 kms away from border so total 600 kms.
Regarding the cause of nuclear winter yes it might be anything that stops Sun’s rays to reach Earth but its unlikely with the nuke yield of combined India pak nukes can cause a global nuclear winter. All the models assumed Us-Soviet total nuke war. Neither India or pak are closer to those levels of yields. The fire ball radius of 150-300 kt is pretty small. The most the calamity will be local not global and mostly it will be related to food in northen India and pak.