India should accept defeat before Kashmiris’ struggle, says Nawaz

[The SC]

You're way off course. Firstly, we don't use the air force and never did unlike the PA which is using fighter jets, artillery and tanks in FATA/NW and in Balochistan earlier. How many civilians have died and townships destroyed in collateral damage during your ops in these areas? We'll never know for sure as independent media has been banned from entering these areas. We just have to go by the propaganda dished out by your ISPR.

Secondly, Wiki isn't the bible. I have given you in my earlier post the approx number of security forces in Kashmir plus minus a thousand as it keeps fluctuating depending on the situation. In other words the number being bandied about by you guys that there are 700,000 army troops in Kashmir is utter rubbish. I have given you the breakdown too. Pl read it again.

Heck your General Hafiz Saeed even said in his rant yesterday that there are one million Indian troops in Kashmir!! Lol! Next, Lt Gen Sayed Sallaudin of the HuM will go a step further and contend that India has more than 1.5 million troops in Kashmir!!

You guys need to get real and stop spreading fiction.

Well you can say that to the article on English Wikipedia, you can just read it and tell them that it is not correct , it is open , you know!, but you have to come up with very credible sources like they do.. I do agree with you that the number of troops fluctuates..

 

[hussain0216]

I would like to know what Pakistan is going offer in return if India accepts defeat? Would it vacate the part under its control and give it back to India? If not, why should India accept Pakistan's plea on this matter?

Pakistan is going to give you nothing, you should free Kashmir or at a minimum allow the Kashmiris a referendum because its the right, decent and democratic thing to do as opposed to forcing yourselves upon a kashmir that resents your occupation and presence

The UN Resolution 47 recommended that in order to ensure the impartiality of the plebiscite Pakistan withdraw all tribesmen and nationals who entered the region for the purpose of fighting and that India leave only the minimum number of troops needed to keep civil order. The Commission was also to send as many observers into the region as it deemed necessary to ensure the provisions of the resolution were enacted. Pakistan ignored the UN mandate, did not withdraw its troops and claimed the withdrawal of Indian forces was a prerequisite as per this resolution.

The Resolution also mentioned that a Plebiscite should take place only after Pakistan has completed the withdrawal and India has minimised their forces. But the first step has still not been taken by Pakistan diminishing all scope for any further steps by India. We can't risk withdrawing troops first and losing the whole place to Pakistan. If a plebiscite is to take place it will have to be according to rules set by the UN.

Forget the resolution, Azaad Kashmir is 100% Muslim and part and parcel of Pakistan, the culture, faith and language is the same

The problem lies in Indian occupied Kashmir where foreign dark indians who dont match the local population have forced themselves upon Kashmiris
, where india should do the right thing and give the Kashmiris a referendum

 

[Brickwall]

No mention of Pak army or forces but freedom fighters of Pakistani/Afghan origin.

Are u saying Pakistan army is not considered Pakistan Nationals ??

Whereas in Indias case it categorically speaks about Indian Armed forces to be reduced progressively to a minimal extent required for the civil offices in order to maintain the law and order .

That rights it has to be reduced not withdrawn..

I also want to mention that India has built special squads in J&K that do rampage and put the blame on foreign elements basically giving impression of Pakistan not fulfilling its part therefore getting away with its compliance on the resolution.Little they know this whole drama of years is aggravating the people and real resistance groups (which are not foreign backed ) are attackign Indian armed forces now. And now this cat& mouse game is pretty muchc autnopmous and India doesnt know end result. If hey finish off the resistance they have to comply with UN charter, if they dont they continue seeing their troops go down. Pretty much a dilemma must say.

Dont go there, I can point out the how pakistan seceded the territory from Kashmir, or built terrorist sanctuary over there...

 

[Kesang]

I hope that he won't have to run from his own country like last time. Pakistan army is not inefficient as Turkish army.

 

[Jackdaws]

There are things that are more important than democracy and that is country's integrity. If you don't have country what is the use of democracy.

@On topic....Nawaz assertions seem more to do with his domestic constituents and compulsions, and election in P0K than at India.

I disagree, respectfully. Both are equally important - one without the other would be meaningless.

I don't know if Pakistan understands the concept of democracy. A democracy exists to protect the right of each individual citizen - not be run on the whims and fancy of a majority. A democracy can't pander to the whims and fancies of a majority in the country itself or in any of its component states. A majority of Indians believe that homosexuality should not be decriminalized - but that doesn't make it right. Only if constitutional rights are denied can a section of a population say it wants to secede and will win support around the world. India has never done that in Kashmir - the presence of its army is a result of militancy and not its cause.

 

[Centurion2016]

Foreign dark Indians in Kashmir



Are these Indians darker than Musharraf or shoiab akhtar lol lol

Useless post

So India should give Kashmiri on the basis of skin tone.

I hope no one in United Nations heard that they would laugh their socks off

 

[ssethii]

Meanwhile in another thread started by some senior members across the border has proved through their "facts" that Pakistan has no right to say anything in Kashmir matter and moreover we should vacate the parts we are illegally occupying( watch out for the upcoming "fact" which might prove this is what the recent unrest is all about).
@hellfire
I have to admit it that those are some well written "facts" and I almost fell for it until I read somewhere that Shiekh Abdullah(the so called Father of Indian Kashmir) joined hands with Maharaja to put up resistance against the Pakistani Invaders. This man is known to have put up struggle against Maharaja throughout his life and to make a point our Indian friends are saying Maharaja consulted his political opponent before handing over the territory to Indian rule which infact implies either this man was a fool or a sell out.
@Joe Shearer
I also came across a gem from the most respected senior Indian professional that Sajjad lone and MirWaiz are afraid of loosing their lives so that's why they are continuing to support freedom rhetoric and don't actually believe in it. I mean wtf he is allowed to question someone's life long principles without any proof in the guise of so called facts.

Most of us don't have privileges to counter their narrative but is their no senior members from Pakistani side to stop this one way parroting or some policy changes for the forum? Sorry to say it @WebMaster but this forum is turning out to be such a disappointment lately in the name of internationalization.
Regards.

 

[-blitzkrieg-]

Are u saying Pakistan army is not considered Pakistan Nationals ??




That rights it has to be reduced not withdrawn..




Dont go there, I can point out the how pakistan seceded the territory from Kashmir, or built terrorist sanctuary over there...

You wouldnt say that had you read the whole thing.The word "withdrawal of forces " is mentioned several times fro Indian forces. Whats said is withdrawal upto a point the forces just barely enough to protect the plebiscite process and which doesnt intimidate teh people.

 

[Asian.Century]

 

[Avijit]

Pakistan is going to give you nothing, you should free Kashmir or at a minimum allow the Kashmiris a referendum because its the right, decent and democratic thing to do as opposed to forcing yourselves upon a kashmir that resents your occupation and presence




Forget the resolution, Azaad Kashmir is 100% Muslim and part and parcel of Pakistan, the culture, faith and language is the same

The problem lies in Indian occupied Kashmir where foreign dark indians who dont match the local population have forced themselves upon Kashmiris
, where india should do the right thing and give the Kashmiris a referendum

Well then, why don't you do the right thing and let Balochistan go?

 

[Brickwall]

You wouldnt say that had you read the whole thing.The word "withdrawal of forces " is mentioned several times fro Indian forces. Whats said is withdrawal upto a point the forces just barely enough to protect the plebiscite process and which doesnt intimidate teh people.

I have read that but your forgetting only after withdrawal of Pakistan army or nationals for your reference

 

[Rockford]

Meanwhile in another thread started by some senior members across the border has proved through their "facts" that Pakistan has no right to say anything in Kashmir matter and moreover we should vacate the parts we are illegally occupying( watch out for the upcoming "fact" which might prove this is what the recent unrest is all about).
@hellfire
I have to admit it that those are some well written "facts" and I almost fell for it until I read somewhere that Shiekh Abdullah(the so called Father of Indian Kashmir) joined hands with Maharaja to put up resistance against the Pakistani Invaders. This man is known to have put up struggle against Maharaja throughout his life and to make a point our Indian friends are saying Maharaja consulted his political opponent before handing over the territory to Indian rule which infact implies either this man was a fool or a sell out.
@Joe Shearer
I also came across a gem from the most respected senior Indian professional that Sajjad lone and MirWaiz are afraid of loosing their lives so that's why they are continuing to support freedom rhetoric and don't actually believe in it. I mean wtf he is allowed to question someone's life long principles without any proof in the guise of so called facts.

Most of us don't have privileges to counter their narrative but is their no senior members from Pakistani side to stop this one way parroting or some policy changes for the forum? Sorry to say it @WebMaster but this forum is turning out to be such a disappointment lately in the name of internationalization.
Regards.

These two guys had their boots on the kashmiri soil for a long time so they must be knowing much more than an average joe like you or me , as for the counter narration you can always use threads like these to show your points just as you used now , and this is one of the few forums which is relatively unbiased and mods are doing an excellent job , if it turns into Pakistani version of bharat rakshak most of the guys will leave

 

[-blitzkrieg-]

I have read that but your forgetting only after withdrawal of Pakistan army or nationals for your reference

.Where does it say 'Pakistan Army' or ' Pakistan forces' in the resolution? IT DOESNT. The withdrawal only for the Indian forces. The troop withdrawal is only for Indians not Pakistanis.And the resolution is for J&K. not the other princely states of that time.Yes Pakistani nationals

 

[Dash]

Meanwhile in another thread started by some senior members across the border has proved through their "facts" that Pakistan has no right to say anything in Kashmir matter and moreover we should vacate the parts we are illegally occupying( watch out for the upcoming "fact" which might prove this is what the recent unrest is all about).
@hellfire
I have to admit it that those are some well written "facts" and I almost fell for it until I read somewhere that Shiekh Abdullah(the so called Father of Indian Kashmir) joined hands with Maharaja to put up resistance against the Pakistani Invaders. This man is known to have put up struggle against Maharaja throughout his life and to make a point our Indian friends are saying Maharaja consulted his political opponent before handing over the territory to Indian rule which infact implies either this man was a fool or a sell out.
@Joe Shearer
I also came across a gem from the most respected senior Indian professional that Sajjad lone and MirWaiz are afraid of loosing their lives so that's why they are continuing to support freedom rhetoric and don't actually believe in it. I mean wtf he is allowed to question someone's life long principles without any proof in the guise of so called facts.

Most of us don't have privileges to counter their narrative but is their no senior members from Pakistani side to stop this one way parroting or some policy changes for the forum? Sorry to say it @WebMaster but this forum is turning out to be such a disappointment lately in the name of internationalization.
Regards.

Isn't that where Pakistan should head towards than heading nowhere with the idea rooted from distortion?

@hellfire and @joesheerer are two not so perfect Indians and if you don't believe them then you have your own research

 

[Hellfire]

Even English Wikipedia, estimates the number of Indian troops in Kashmir to up to 600 000, that is why I said it looks like a forceful occupation.. with close to 40 or 45 infantry divisions, plus the air force..

40 divisions - 45 divisions?

Indian army is 35 divisions authorised as per government of India act and on ground ... all inclusive!!!!! You are hilarious.