India’s Super Sukhoi Vs China’s Su-35: Who has the better Aircraft?

[Fattyacids]

Pure BS. China is not anywhere what you describe and I have been to China many times, and it seems you don't have any idea where India is. If you think a country that is sending mission to mars is not a industrialized country yet, I have noting to explain.

Anyway lets us stop this d**k measuring contest. There is no end here. I say my d**k is longest while you say yours'

India is an industrialized country
What heavy equipment or specialized product India manufacture? You can't even make simple consumer product !!!!!
You need to check yourself into a mental hospital, delusion of grandeur is a mental disorder.

Look, I'm not interested in dxxk measuring contest, I'm merely stating fact.

 

[DrSomnath999]

my only contention for su-35 was

1)way cheaper
2)upgradable with pakfa aesa

1) Cheaper
tell me which weapon russia had sold us intially at cheap rate has not been hiked later
It's just a bait nothing else even Super SU 30 upgrade would cost us a lot

2)PAKFA aesa upgradation
Thats for Russia only if they sold to chinese then they are digging their own graves as they would CTRL C + CTRL V & use it in J20

BTW i would tell u one thing u should remember this till your end of your life

It is a suicide for those pilots who turn on their own aesa radar against plane like F22/ Rafale as F22' ALR 94 system & Rafale's Spectra can passively detect a plane EM radiations far greater distance more than their own radar could detect it's enemies & not only that it can cue it's BVRAAM against those
targets without turning on it's own aesa radar for stealth reason .
As those LPI word is just for name sake only

CHEERS

 

[he-man]

1) Cheaper
tell me which weapon russia had sold us intially at cheap rate has not been hiked later
It's just a bait nothing else even Super SU 30 upgrade would cost us a lot

2)PAKFA aesa upgradation
Thats for Russia only if they sold to chinese then they are digging their own graves as they would CTRL C + CTRL V & use it in J20

BTW i would tell u one thing u should remember this till your end of your life

It is a suicide for those pilots who turn on their own aesa radar against plane like F22/ Rafale as F22' ALR 94 system & Rafale's Spectra can passively detect a plane EM radiations far greater distance more than their own radar could detect it's enemies & not only that it can cue it's BVRAAM against those
targets without turning on it's own aesa radar for stealth reason .
As those LPI word is just for name sake only

CHEERS

i have heard l-band aesa on pakfa serves same purpose as a passive warner btw

And aesa cannot be easily tracked by spectra like suite as it changes its frequencies randomly

On su-35 i agree...........we may not get bang for buck unless we start integrating pakfa avionics which again will make it cost almost in pakfa range or rafale range

major su-35 disadvantage--------poor stealth as no s-duct or even radar blocker

 

[dray]

But why technologically super-advanced China needs Russian planes? And that too only 24 of those? I guess it is for their indigenous research & development!!

 

[he-man]

But why technologically super-advanced China needs Russian planes? And that too only 24 of those? I guess it is for their indigenous research & development!!

seems like that .................basically for item 117s engines

rest they can pretty much manage
@DrSomnath999


1)no super sukhoi deal has been signed yet
2)No aesa proto is available except phazotron niir fga-29 and fga-35
3)Sukhoi 30 has hugr rcs compared to even su-35(though unverified.............russians claim that)
4)No or very less composites in su-30mki
5)Engines???
6)Huge rcs of mki cannot be corrected(or to a small degree only due to straight,huge intakes)
We require better engines for heavier and more power hungry equipment.Will we be getting item 117s of su-35??

i think these are our options as far as radar is concerned for super mki

http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian-defence/275107-happy-times-iaf-ahead-options-galore.html

 

[he-man]

But why technologically super-advanced China needs Russian planes? And that too only 24 of those? I guess it is for their indigenous research & development!!

also it appears that chinese don't even want su-35...............russia wants the sale badly,but who knows the truth??

 

[Hephaestus]

China has reportedly signed a deal to procure 24 Su-35s but neither has officially confirmed the purchase.

Circa 2018! China launches new super secret fighter aircraft Shenyang J-XX A/B/C. Supposedly reverse engineered from Flanker-E.

Other News:
Beijing to gift a few to Islamabad. In return Islamabad will let Chinese use Karachi port for eternity! Long live China-Pakistan friendship.
We all know why the Chinese are buying this.

--------------*************

Sorry if i'm trolling! But, I just couldn't help it.

 

[dray]

India is an industrialized country
What heavy equipment or specialized product India manufacture? You can't even make simple consumer product !!!!!
You need to check yourself into a mental hospital, delusion of grandeur is a mental disorder.

Look, I'm not interested in dxxk measuring contest, I'm merely stating fact.

India's rank in Global Manufacturing Competitiveness Index. Check both 2013 & 2010 rank given below and let me know your opinion.

http://www.deloitte.com/assets/Dcom...)Global_Manufacturing_Competitiveness2013.pdf

http://www.deloitte.com/assets/Dcom...ufacturing Competitiveness Index_06_28_10.pdf

Global Manufacturing Competitiveness Index: Talent seen as key to success

 

[Fattyacids]

India's rank in Global Manufacturing Competitiveness Index. Check both 2013 & 2010 rank given below and let me know your opinion.

http://www.deloitte.com/assets/Dcom...)Global_Manufacturing_Competitiveness2013.pdf

http://www.deloitte.com/assets/Dcom...ufacturing Competitiveness Index_06_28_10.pdf

Global Manufacturing Competitiveness Index: Talent seen as key to success

Manufacturing competitiveness (cost driven) is not the same as manufacturing capability(technology driven). India ranked ahead South Korea, Taiwan, UK, Japan, Swiss, france. Need i elaborate more?

Don't mean to put India down, you're progressing nicely. The other guy was boasting too much, hence my rebuttal.

But why technologically super-advanced China needs Russian planes? And that too only 24 of those? I guess it is for their indigenous research & development!!

It's politically driven. In some areas, we are ahead, Russia has no drone or 5th gen stealth fighter yet. But Russian engines are better.

 

[Ping]

Su-35S(formerly Su-35BM) is the most recent and the most advanced of the Su-27 family. It has a all-metal structure, but unlike other Su-27 family fighters, it's comprised of titanium composites. As a result its airframe life is higher than the others. Its avionics is one of the best, and its radar is the best in the world in range. How does it compare with its cousin the successful Su-30MKI family comprising of Su-30MKI, Su-30MKM and Su-30MKA?

Below are the similarities between Su-30MKI and Su-35S:
12 Hard Points
8000kgs external ordinance
G-limit 9
Same Air-Air and Air-Ground weapons package
Has Thrust Vectoring
Can house external jammers and all varieties of pods.
Has inflight re-fueling
etc.. etc..


Differences:
Su-30MKI-
Maximum internal fuel - 9,640kgs
Max Range(without mid-air refueling) - 3000kms
Max ceiling - 17.3km
Max Speed - Mach 1.9
Canards - Yes
Crew - 2
Max Afterburner Thrust - 12500kgf, Emergency Thrust - 12800kgf
External Fuel Tanks - No
Composites - Not in significant quantity.
Empty Weight - unknown. Estimated to be around 18400kgs.
Airframe life - 3,000hrs or 15 years(at 200 hours flight time each year)
Internal Jammer - No
RCS - unofficial estimate 11.5m2
Airbrake - Yes
Supercruise- No


Su-35S-
Maximum internal fuel - 11,500kgs
Max Range(without mid-air refueling, without external fuel tanks) - 3600kms
Max ceiling - 18km
Max Speed - Mach 2.25
Canards - No (since radar isn't heavy)
Crew - 1
Max Afterburner Thrust - 14500kgf(gives a massive boost to TWR compared to Su-30MKI)
External Fuel Tanks - Yes (can carry 2 drop tanks of 1400kgs fuel in each of them)
Composites - Yes. Extensive use of Titanium Alloys.
Empty Weight - Unknown. Estimated to be around 18800kgs.
Airframe life - 6,000hrs or 30 years(at 200 hours flight time each year)
Internal Jammer - Yes
RCS - unofficial estimate between 1-3m2
Airbrake - No. Powerful modified rudders act as Airbrakes.
Supercruise - Yes

Radar-
This deserves a separate mention. Because this is where the difference is at its max.
Su-30MKI has a N-011M BARS Radar
Transmitter peak power - 5kw
Transmitter average power - 1.2kw
Can Track- 15 Targets
Can Simultaneously Engage - 4 Targets
Max Detection for 5 sqm RCS - 140 km(Upgraded Radar with upgraded transmitter power, if any in service, its range is unknown.)

Su-35S has N-035 IRBIS-E. The most powerful Fighter Plane mounted X Band radar in the world. Specs are as follows.
Transmitter peak power - 20kw
Transmitter average power - 5kw
Can Track - 30 Targets
Can Simultaneously Engage - 8 Targets
Max Detection for 5 sqm RCS - 426 km
Max Detection for 3 sqm RCS - 375 km
Max Detection for 1 sqm RCS - 285 km
Max Detection for 0.01 sqm RCS - 90 km

DATA FROM OFFICIAL SUKHOI and NIIP WEBSITES. Not Wikipedia!

http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian-defence/222304-su-30mki-vs-su-35s.html

And the figures posted above are indeed from official sources.
Ð*адиолокационная система управления «ИÐ*БИС-Ð*» для истребителя Су-35
Google Translate
www.niip.ru/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=7:-q-q-35&catid=8:2011-07-06-06-33-26&Itemid=8 - Translator
http://www.roe.ru/cataloque/air_craft/aircraft_99-102.pdf



And do note that the ranges are the best ranges available. Same goes for any AESA as well. You can shout out AESA all you want but you will never be able to fight atmosphere attenuation no matter how many frequencies you switch.. because in the end its all in the X-Band range only which is massively susceptible to attenuation even with a little cloud cover. If it rains forget it, your AESA is a dead stick! The only way to fight such attenuation is to to fight it with brute force. And together with a spectacularly small Rafale's nose cone, the ranges you can get out of it will be laughable if the war happens in the monsoon season. All that with a price tag of close to a 100 million. Su-35S with a limited production run costed 60 mil. And I am not even mentioning about the weapons. Each Mica costed 2.5 million dollars for the IAF. Meteor will be in the 10 mil range keeping in mind the french and their atrocious track record. And since India is a developed nation with 0% poverty, we can well afford this overpriced french $hits! Right? A Golden door to protect a rundown shack!!

Behind that glossy conference and few titbits to dumb aasss reporters, good luck convincing Russians to integrate their weapons into the French Radars!... And asking them to give their weapon's datalink encryption to the member of the NATO to be slaved to its radar and fighter's datalink!!! You could fire a MICA IR variant with the missile launched in the autonomous mode without slaving it to a radar, but this isnt something extraordinary since IAF has been doing this for eons. Only this time you will be firing the 2500000 dollar(hurts everytime i mention that price figure!)MICA for the same ranges of an 5k dollar R-60.

Anyway, MKI urgrade is just a Mid-life upgrade. Don't expect it to stand head to head against the Su-35S. Super MKI remains to be seen how it is going to be. But it wont match Su-35S in terms of TWR, airframe life, range or interception capabilities. Its only advantage will be the advantages its AESA radar will have(typical AESA radar advantages), but will lose out on detection ranges and tracking ranges.

All in all, junk the Ripoff-ale deal and stick with the MKIs, if necessary get 2 or 3 squads of Super Fulcrums and be done with it.. the money saved would do a lot of good for this nation.

PS: Chinese going for the SU-35 deal goes to show how good their fifth gen fighters are behind that ugly black paint. I bet even that paint is toxic to mere touch. They even neatly painted it to hide the junk inside when they "leaked" the flying fat box to the world, while even the russians fly their fighters in a yellow primer, a country decades ahead of ting-tongs and having institutions like the Tsagi. Such stupid propaganda might work well with their dumbass populace, but the rest of the world is immune to such nonsense.

 

[gslv mk3]

India is an industrialized country
What heavy equipment or specialized product India manufacture? You can't even make simple consumer product !!!!!
You need to check yourself into a mental hospital, delusion of grandeur is a mental disorder.

Absolute BS....

 

[faithfulguy]

India has no super sukoi and China has no F-35. So there is no comparison as there are nothing to compare.

 

[agni 6]

It is just a justification for russia to sell su35 to china so they can reverse engineer it and pay russia under the table as they did with su27 renaming it to j10.then russia can blackmail india to buy more of its stuff.

 

[klub]

Man as already told

1)rafale has aesa and su-35 has pesa(aesa is superior,simple)

2)rafale irst has a range of 140 km against su-35 90 km

3)spectra is better than passive suite of su-35

BC, SU 35 is only super Sukhoi. Both airframes are SAME! Prasun K Sengupta has given a well written article. In terms of aviation and avionics they are usually spot on!

TRISHUL: Super Su-30MKI: From Air Dominance To Air Supremacy

Tension mat lo. Our govt is an @$$hole, armed forces planning is not!

 

[he-man]

BC, SU 35 is only super Sukhoi. Both airframes are SAME! Prasun K Sengupta has given a well written article. In terms of aviation and avionics they are usually spot on!

TRISHUL: Super Su-30MKI: From Air Dominance To Air Supremacy

Tension mat lo. Our govt is an @$$hole, armed forces planning is not!

they are not

1)su-35 has a better integrated system like f-22 and rafale

2)Uses higher thrust engines(142 kn vs 123 kn)

3)better avionics................irbis-e vs bars-m

i am comparing su-30 with su-35

nothing called su-30 mki exists and no one knows the specs

1)The post talks about so called aesa for super sukhoi!!
We haven't seen even fully developed pakfa aesa which is in testing for past 2 years and u are betting on an aesa whose prototype hasen't yet been made??

2)It talks of nothing about airframe

3)The best russian engine after pakfa engine is item 117s of su-35 and it has service life of 4000 hours instead of 6000 hrs as article says..................and russians are not going to develop a new engine for super sukhoi
http://npo-saturn.ru/?sat=64&slang=1

pls check the link

4)The rest maybe true................cannot comment yet


to quote sengupta

"Also to be noted is that the IAF has gone for the distributed AESA-array configuration (for the mini-AEW & C role) primarily as a back-up capability just in case the DRDO/CABS is unable to deliver the indigenous AEW & CS on time. In addition, have an embedded mini-AEW & C capability within a strike package oriented towards offensive air campaigns has some unique advantages aimed at neutralising the force-multiplier capabilities offered by hostile AEW & C platforms. This is an entirely standalone issue that I will dwell upon in future."

This is utter bullshit as drdo awacs are already in testing as we speak with an s-band aesa


lastly this article is dated

Saturday, May 14, 2011

we haven't even signed the contract yet and he is giving details 2 -3 years prior to that,,,i will take that with a pinch of salt