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India’s nuclear logic

arp2041

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The former Indian foreign secretary, Shyam Saran, gave a revealing speech on India’s nuclear deterrent on April 24th. The speech was titled, somewhat vaguely, “Is India’s Nuclear Deterrent Credible?”

But it more usefully updated India’s nuclear weapons status in a way that hasn’t happened since the release of the draft nuclear doctrine back in the early 2000s.

The most striking part of the speech doctrinally responded to Pakistan’s supposed move to develop tactical nuclear capability. Saran made it clear that India wouldn’t distinguish between a kiloton weapon aimed at tanks or a megatonner aimed at a city. “The label on a nuclear weapon used for attacking India, strategic or tactical, is irrelevant from the Indian perspective. A limited nuclear war is a contradiction in terms. Any nuclear exchange, once initiated, would swiftly and inexorably escalate to the strategic level. Pakistan would be prudent not to assume otherwise as it sometimes appears to do, most recently by developing and perhaps deploying theatre nuclear weapons.”

The speech also fitted in place missing bits of India’s nuclear puzzle.

He confirmed that two legs of India’s nuclear triad — airborne weapons and rail and mobile land-based nuclear warheads — have been completed. And he laid out a timetable for the completion of the third submarine-based leg.

He also confirmed that an official nuclear doctrine has been approved, and bemoaned the face it has not been made public.

“Since January 4, 2003, when India adopted its nuclear doctrine formally at a meeting of the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS), it has moved to put in place, at a measured pace, a triad of land-based, air-delivered and submarine-based nuclear forces and delivery assets to conform to its declared doctrine of no-first use and retaliation only. It has had to create a command and control infrastructure that can survive a first strike and a fully secure communication system that is reliable and hardened against radiation or electronic interference.” Saran argues that if the doctrine cannot be revealed, then India should at least release an annual Strategic Posture Review.

I feel Saran pulled his punches on arguing for the doctrine to be made public. Deterrent works only by being transparent about intent and capability. Otherwise, an opponent may conclude the deterrent is a bluff. At a time when Pakistan is slowly losing its political marbles, the logic of such transparency is stronger than ever.

The speech also lays out a potted history of India’s nuclear posture. One of the more forceful parts of the speech refutes the argument that India went nuclear largely for reasons of prestige. It was China, China and China, Saran makes clear.

“I find somewhat puzzling assertions by some respected security analysts, both Indian and foreign, that India’s nuclear weapons programme has been driven by notions of prestige or global standing rather than by considerations of national security.”

He also makes the argument that India’s nuclear environment with its three-nation minuet makes a lot of the strategy that evolved in the West irrelevant. “It is because of this complexity that notions of flexible response and counter-force targeting, which appeared to have a certain logic in a binary US-Soviet context, lose their relevance in the multi-dimensional threat scenario which prevails certainly in our region.” This is an interesting argument but needs a lot more explaining than this speech was able to.

India’s nuclear logic : Foreign Hand
 
Any nuclear attack whether tactical or strategic will be deal in same way. NUCLEAR WAR.................
 
The most striking part of the speech doctrinally responded to Pakistan’s supposed move to develop tactical nuclear capability. Saran made it clear that India wouldn’t distinguish between a kiloton weapon aimed at tanks or a megatonner aimed at a city. “The label on a nuclear weapon used for attacking India, strategic or tactical, is irrelevant from the Indian perspective. A limited nuclear war is a contradiction in terms. Any nuclear exchange, once initiated, would swiftly and inexorably escalate to the strategic level. Pakistan would be prudent not to assume otherwise as it sometimes appears to do, most recently by developing and perhaps deploying theatre nuclear weapons.”

Seems fair.

A nuke on India forces be it in enemy territory or on Indian soil can not be differentiated - the reaction and response would be the same.

Once a nuke is used by the enemy - all bets are off.
 
Seems fair.

A nuke on India forces be it in enemy territory or on Indian soil can not be differentiated - the reaction and response would be the same.

Once a nuke is used by the enemy - all bets are off.

This is where our region has become much more dangerous.

Control of a tactical missile such as Nasr is in the hands of Local Commanders & not higher Political Establishment.

In a Situation of War, there Nuclear Threshold is much less than the leadership siting in the capital.

But India has made it clear - A Nuke is a Nuke it's size doesn't matter.
 
Any nuclear exchange, once initiated, would swiftly and inexorably escalate to the strategic level. Pakistan would be prudent not to assume otherwise as it sometimes appears to do, most recently by developing and perhaps deploying theatre nuclear weapons.”

Pakistan is not assuming other-wise. India is the one who should be prudent enough not to assume that in a full fledge war Pakistan will abstain from using nuclear weapons. Far too great a difference in conventional means ensure that nuclear option will be a part of any such war with India.
 
Pakistan is not assuming other-wise. India is the one who should be prudent enough not to assume that in a full fledge war Pakistan will abstain from using nuclear weapons. Far too great a difference in conventional means ensure that nuclear option will be a part of any such war with India.

The Problem was never the Probability of "USE" of NUKES in such a war scenario. India has always thought of that. The Problem now is that the Threshold has been considerably changed by the testing of NASR.

Whats the Nuke Threshold now??

A Kargil or A 1971??
 
This is where our region has become much more dangerous.

Control of a tactical missile such as Nasr is in the hands of Local Commanders & not higher Political Establishment.

In a Situation of War, there Nuclear Threshold is much less than the leadership siting in the capital.

But India has made it clear - A Nuke is a Nuke it's size doesn't matter.

True, let us not forget though that AT THE MOMENT Nasr is a symbolic gesture..Pakistan is yet to validate a miniaturized nuke and even today it keeps its war heads un-mated from its delivery platforms contrary to popular belief.

Also..once the Arihant goes out with K-15s we'll have changed that equation..since we won't need the separation of payload and platform..the latter being essential when you don't have a credible undersea nuclear triad component.

The Problem was never the imminent "USE" of NUKES in such a war scenario. India has always thought of that. The Problem now is that the Threshold has been considerably changed by the testing of NASR.

Whats the Nuke Threshold now??

A Kargil or A 1971??

A thrust through Punjab and Thar..check the ORBAT out for the region..the three strike corps there are Sundar Ji's contribution and like all things related to Sundar Ji- bone-a$$ lethal....
 
you guys get bombed every day in kashmir with artillery shells made with nuke materials

India must be the only country in the world that gets Bombed with nuke material and doesnt even know it !!

Are you sure they are not landing in Pak Held J&K ?

Pakistan is not assuming other-wise. India is the one who should be prudent enough not to assume that in a full fledge war Pakistan will abstain from using nuclear weapons. Far too great a difference in conventional means ensure that nuclear option will be a part of any such war with India.

Rest assured India has built this into its response plan.
 
True, let us not forget though that AT THE MOMENT Nasr is a symbolic gesture..Pakistan is yet to validate a miniaturized nuke and even today it keeps its war heads un-mated from its delivery platforms contrary to popular belief.

Can you explain as to how difficult this tech. is?? Does India have it??

Also how much time it will take Pakistan to assemble the miniaturized nukes with tactical missiles such as Nasr??
 
Can you explain as to how difficult this tech. is?? Does India have it??

Also how much time it will take Pakistan to assemble the miniaturized nukes with tactical missiles such as Nasr??

Depends...nothing out in the open yet...the day you see Indian MIRVs streaking into the lower atmosphere you'll know we have miniaturized nukes.

Either that or another round of warhead tests..the latter being far too risky..for us at least the proof will come from MIRVs...if you've vallidated that then it means you got a respectably small warhead with a good yield..otherwise you wouldn't invest in MIRVs which are neither a symbolic thing nor as cheap to come up with as a tac BM...otherwise our Prahaar BM could also be used to point out that it means that we've miniaturized our nukes.
 
Sleeping RAW and IB makes Pak nuclear 10X dangerous... They should have stopped pak long ago... Now pak is a powerful enemy and we need a powerful RAW to take care of Nukes.
 
Rogue nukes or missiles coming towards India will be taken off in the air itself. Thanks to multilayered Indian NMDS :cheers:
 
Most of what Shyam Saran said is already known. But he did take care to re-state what India's response to "tactical nukes" will be. In conclusion; the country that presses the "red-button" first will just be commiting 'Hara-Kiri' or suicide.
Just again goes to show the dubious utility of Nukes in general; and the paradox contained in their so-called Deterrent Factor.
 
All I would say is that we need to develop strong deterrence and dismantle Pak nuclear weapons.

NASR is real and we have no answers to Pak nuclear weapons once US leaves Afghan.

Nothing less that this should be acceptable.


It a mentality of Hindus to ignore wild big events that Terroist can do. Today we say that Pak is not going to nuke us. This seems wild, a very big and dangerous event.

Look at history and dangerous event that actually happened:

2013: [i say that] India is going to nuked by Pak in near time, we should work to dismantle pak nuclear capability with the Zionists. Terroist are going to get them sooner or later. SH (sleeping hindu) says to me: You are stupid and communal. Nothign like that is going to happen.

1947: [RH] India is indepdendent now, Muslims got their land, and now they will clean out Hindus from Assam, Bengal, other areas where where are near majority. SH: Nothign like that is going to happen.
It actually happened.

1913: [RH]Muslims are going to clean Hindus from Sind, Bangla area. SH: Nothign like that is going to happen.
It actually happened.

1713: Muslims are going to clean Hindus from Afghan area: SH: Nothign like that is going to happen.
It actually happened.

1413: This idelogy is going to adopted by 50% of this entire area that you call Aryavrat SH: Nothign like that is going to happen.
It actually happened.


nukes are real and they will used by the terrorists.
Can you explain as to how difficult this tech. is?? Does India have it??

Also how much time it will take Pakistan to assemble the miniaturized nukes with tactical missiles such as Nasr??
 

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