India relations with GCC(middle East)

[Sam.]

what blank post means ?

 

[Levina]

what blank post means ?

Check now.....

I'm using my mobile so "slip of finger" is inevitable.

 

[Sam.]

While it makes sense to partner with a more moderate country like Iran,GCC can not be ignored because they help us meet a lot of our energy needs.
Better political relations with GCC would also help the expats living in these countries.
I am waiting to see how Modi moulds his foreign policy for GCC, albeit GCC might be a little apprehensive due to Modi's far rightist image. Lol

Modi is a pure baniya wherever he will see a business potential he will start singing.

Check now.....

I'm using my mobile so "slip of finger" is inevitable.

Oh i thought you were giving silence treatment to boys.

 

[Levina]

Modi is a pure baniya wherever he will see a business potential he will start singing.
.

You bet!!!
He can sell air and make money.
I liked his Yoga campaign best. Some years down the lane we might thank him for generating hundreds and thousands of job opportunities for Yoga instructors abroad. Lol

 

[Sam.]

You bet!!!
He can sell air and make money.
I liked his Yoga campaign best. Some years down the lane we might thank him for generating hundreds and thousands of job opportunities for Yoga instructors abroad. Lol

I agree and also jandhan yojna is one of the best scheme he did (it solves so many issues in daily people life)

lots of red tape gonna go out due to direct cash transfer now.It is the best scheme for so many level and after linking it with addhar you have no idea what's the potential.

 

[Kaniska]

This question itself is not applicable to us...Are we choosing between China and US...In the same way, both GCC and Iran is our partners...We should not get into the stigma of Shia and Sunni and their rivalry...which is nothing significant to us...

 

[Styx]

I wouldn't say we have no presence there but no hard presence as on societal level we have huge p[presence there.(more than UK and USA and Russia is nowhere to found)

big presence with the NRI diaspora, and the related remittances, yes.. influence ? no

While it makes sense to partner with a more moderate country like Iran,GCC can not be ignored because they help us meet a lot of our energy needs.
Better political relations with GCC would also help the expats living in these countries.
I am waiting to see how Modi moulds his foreign policy for GCC, albeit GCC might be a little apprehensive due to Modi's far rightist image. Lol

true, streamlining business processes and reforming related taxation etc is good but I just hope they stay as neutral as possible wrt the whole shia-sunni storm that's brewing there, we don't want that virus to affect almost 200 million Indians, it's already quite bad in next door Pakistan.

 

[Saif al-Arab]

@Geralt

The economically ties between the GCC and India (yearly trade volume numbering 160 billion dollars (!) and quickly approaching 200 billion dollars!) and trade balance is very much in favor of the GCC.

Also we don't care about who or what you prefer. Business is business and we don't look towards India either if we want to learn from the best but nearby Europe, USA or China. So the feeling is mutual if your goal was to provoke.

Besides the 200 million Muslim Indians have on many fronts very close cultural, religious and historical ties (and for some even ancestral) to the GCC and Arab world. Much more than you think. Your language Hindi is full of Arabic words, and Urdu which is spoken by over 60 million Indians is written in the Arabic alphabet. Indian Muslims see the GCC (KSA) as their spiritual "homeland" (Makkah and Madinah) and this obviously shows in the culture. Besides of that most Indians in the GCC or at least in KSA are Indian Muslims.

So your claim is nonsense unless you are speaking for some Indian Hindu from Tamil Nadu but even that part of India had trading and cultural ties with mainly the Arabian Peninsula for millenniums. Much more than any other region in the ME.

I know that you are an anti-Arab hater and sucking up to Iran constantly (like a few other Indian users - a sad sight as this sucking up is one-sided if you notice) so I won't bother discussing with you. Just wanted to write what I wrote above.

Also the 450 million Arabs (especially those in the Arabian Peninsula) and Indians historically had cordial ties and little to no animosity. Nor do I hate India or Indians and most Indians I know are friendly people who I have good relations with just like they have with most Arabs. I do enjoy Indian cuisine too which in many ways is quite similar to the one eaten in the Arabian Peninsula, especially Yemen and Hijaz due to mutual trade relations for milleniums.

@Sam. did you write that article yourself? Nice work and detailed.

I think that the next step in the relations will be a widening of the trade (diversification) and educational, technological and even military relations.

Business is business and Arabs know this better than anyone else historically. I would do business with the "Arab" (Sayyid) supreme leader of Iran if it benefited me.

GCC relations with India changing dynamics beyond traditional links

India’s relationship with the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC) countries is growing like never before in the history as the progressive approaches are more satisfyingly expanding for both the parties in absolute terms as well as when compared it with Indian relations with other regional group of countries.

Indeed the changing dynamics of their relationship has gone much beyond energy security and traditional trade and commerce to the rich diaspora factor handsomely contributing in the form of remittances, which is an important contribution toward the substantial Indian foreign exchange reserve.

Among the other important factors are ongoing massive infrastructure development schemes with the involvement
of the Indians living in the GCC countries and overall economic prosperity of India, for which the overseas Indians look up to their home government with so much of expectations like inclusive growth and violence-free India rather than divisive politics.

The rapid economic developments that exploded in the Gulf countries triggered by the spectacular oil price-rise in the early 1970s had major consequences for the Indians and it is therefore significant for the huge Indian diaspora in the GCC as it resulted in the movement of Indian manpower to these countries as the total number of overseas Indians there these is around seven million, with a strong 2.8 million community alone in Saudi Arabia.

Notably, Indians living in the Kingdom as one of the most preferred community due to their expertise, sense of discipline, law abiding and peace loving nature, constitutes the largest concentration of Indian passport holders anywhere in the world and largest number of expatriates in the Kingdom that contributes handsomely toward the ongoing developments in India with the highest contribution in remittances, which is well acknowledged.

As remittances sent by the Indian community in GCC countries became a significant byproduct being so huge and ever growing, these unsung contributions from the rich diaspora to the government of India have been of vital importance in providing the means of livelihood to millions of dependent family members in India on the one hand and to keeping India’s balance of payments manageable on the other.
For example, last year, at $70 billion, India was the largest recipient of remittances from its diaspora abroad of any country in the world and of that about $38 billion came from the GCC countries only.

Significantly, as the number of overseas Indians in the GCC increased steadily over the past decades, the amount of remittances hugely went up.

Indians living in the GCC countries today constitute about 38 percent of the total expatriate population in the region, making them the largest expatriate community both cumulatively in the GCC as a whole and individually in each GCC country.

Notably, Yusuffali M.A., an Indian businessman and managing director of the Abu Dhabi-headquartered EMKE LuLu Group of companies that owns the Lulu Hypermarket chain in the GCC with an annual turnover of $ 4.5 billion globally has become a trusted name in the region.

Yusuffali has carved a niche for himself as a leading businessman. His group employs the largest number of Indians outside India, especially in the GCC.

Yusuffali was also among VIPs who descended to Riyadh to condole the demise of Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques King Abdullah on Saturday, cutting short his Davos World Economic Forum summit.

Living in any of the GCC countries one would know how vital the Indian community is to the logistics and mechanics of the daily functioning of life in each of the GCC countries — Saudi Arabia, the UAE, Qatar, Oman, Kuwait and Bahrain.

Interestingly, the processes which propelled such large numbers of Indians into the GCC countries took place organically responding to the laws of demand and supply with little or no governmental role in pushing them to the region for livelihood.

Furthermore, the diaspora factor and the growing economic interaction have resulted in another significant development that is the ever growing flight connectivity between India and the GCC countries.

It is almost 50 percent of the total flight connections between India and the rest of the world put together. Besides the rich diaspora, energy security for India was a key factor in growing relations.

As of now, indeed world geo-economic factors dictates geopolitics and for India to become a global power it needs to register a sustained growth rate at around 8-10 percent for at least a decade and the to this end energy security will be a key factor as India is an energy deficient country. Therefore, India had to look West, to west Asia and to be specific the GCC.

According to the Embassy of India in Riyadh, the GCC’s substantial oil and gas reserves are of vital importance for India’s energy needs.

Moreover, as close interaction between the Indians and the people of the Gulf region began with the dawn of history and dates back to several millenniums, India shares a historical heritage with the Arabian Peninsula, especially with Saudi Arabia, a major GCC country.
For centuries traders and sailors from India, especially spice traders from South India, sailed across the Arabian Sea in boats made of Malabar wood and traders from the Arabian Peninsula crossed the Hindukush and the Arabian Sea to exchange commodities and ideas.
In the two-way trade, these sailors and traders also served as the major link between West Asia and the Mediterranean on one hand and the Indian coast on the other, and over the decent length of time the scholastic, cultural exchanges and religious ties apart from trade and commerce were established, which remain vibrant even today to further bolster bilateral ties.
Now, India enjoys traditionally cordial relations and cooperation with the GCC.

India’s historical ties with the GCC, coupled with increasing imports of oil and gas, growing trade and investment opportunities and presence of about seven million Indian workers in the region are of vital interest to India.

As India’s economic linkages with the GCC have increased steadily, especially due to the growth in oil imports and increasing diaspora, these continue to make steady progress to-date.

According to Indian embassy data, during 2012-2013, India’s exports to the GCC were $51.05 billion.

The bilateral trade during the period was $159.15 billion, marking a 7.86 percent increase over the previous year and growing at a steady pace, the embassy statistics suggest.

Hence, the GCC offers tremendous potential for cooperation in human resources, trade, investment and energy efficiency, and as far as their relation is concerned, the energy, trade and diaspora factors taken together constitute India’s largest socioeconomic partner in the world. Thus, the GCC as a collective entity has tremendous significance for India.

GCC relations with India changing dynamics beyond traditional links | Arab News

The Middle East. India has maintained relations with every country in the Middle East (or what it calls West Asia). Its direct interests and connections with the Gulf Cooperation Council countries and Israel, in many ways, are broader and deeper than those with Iran.

India will continue to try to balance these relationships, hoping that the deal will create more diplomatic space for Delhi. Some in India have also pointed to the deal potentially opening the door to greater American and Iranian efforts to counter ISIL as a benefit.


On the other hand, if the deal destabilizes the region and especially the security situation deteriorates even further, that could have adverse implications for India. More than 7 million Indians live and work in the Middle East, and they send home significant remittances. Moreover, this region continues to be the major source of oil and natural gas for India, and any new conflict could threaten supplies and escalate prices. With large Sunni and Shia populations, the Indian government will also be concerned about the spillover from sectarian tension in the Middle East. Finally, significant heightening of tensions between its many partners in the region might require India to make some choices – so far it has preferred to avoid doing so.


@levina @Abingdonboy @Nihonjin1051
@lightoftruth
@
third eye @nair @doppelganger @AndrewJin @Geralt @Nair saab @me_itsme

 

[Kaniska]

GCC always sides with Pakistan in the field of diplomacy...In all of the Indo Pak wars, GCC overtly sided with Pakistan assisting with money, fuel too..That has the reason, in spite of such an huge amount of trade relation between the two, we people always see GCC in same sides as Pakistan...So the trade relationship never ever matured enough to be more roboust relation at the next level...But if you see Iran,Iran plays its card somehow in a neutral way in the Indo Pak relationship although we do have less amount of trade relation with Iran than GCC...

So @Saif al-Arab, your frustration or anger for India may be genuine, but in spite of huge potential, India GCC relationship never grown enough to the next level, for your overt support to Pakistan at the event of India and Pakistan war where Iran stayed neutral or sided with Pakistan covertly....There lies the difference in perception between the 2 nation...Even in PDF too, GCC and Arabs posters are always pro Pakistan...Again, I am not questioning the reason why you are pro Pakistan rather i am mentioning the reason for which Indian always love to side with Iran and its people although economic benefit that GCC provided to us is much more than Indian gets from Iran...

 

[Saif al-Arab]

GCC always sides with Pakistan in the field of diplomacy...In all of the Indo Pak wars, GCC overtly sided with Pakistan assisting with money, fuel too..That has the reason, in spite of such an huge amount of trade relation between the two, we people always see GCC in same sides as Pakistan...So the trade relationship never ever matured enough to be more roboust relation at the next level...But if you see Iran,Iran plays its card somehow in a neutral way in the Indo Pak relationship although we do have less amount of trade relation with Iran than GCC...

So @Saif al-Arab, your frustration or anger for India may be genuine, but in spite of huge potential, India GCC relationship never grown enough to the next level, for your overt support to Pakistan at the event of India and Pakistan war where Iran stayed neutral or sided with Pakistan covertly....There lies the difference in perception between the 2 nation...Even in PDF too, GCC and Arabs posters are always pro Pakistan...Again, I am not questioning the reason why you are pro Pakistan rather i am mentioning the reason for which Indian always love to side with Iran and its people although economic benefit that GCC provided to us is much more than Indian gets from Iran...

Why is India an observer state to the Arab League then along with Brazil, Venezuela and Eritrea? At least Brazil has between 10-20 million people of Arab descent (7-10% of Brazil's population)

Arab Brazilian - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

and Venezuela too has a big Arab population

Arab Venezuelan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (5-7% of the population)

100.000 + Arabs live in Eritrea too.

Rashaida people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

but what about India? Sure millions of Indians claim to be Sayyid's and Arabs did indeed migrate to India and intermarried with locals and there are still certain Arab communities (Bohra's)

Dawoodi Bohra - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Their leader



but this was done mostly due to ancient cultural ties and economic reasons before anything else. I don't exactly recall what went before India gaining an observer status.

I don't think that GCC's pro-Pakistan stance (which might change due to recent events) plays any role here as India obviously had/has no problems with that considering the booming trade (most important kind of relation between states), hosting the largest Indian diaspora in the world etc.

In case you don't know it your biggest trading partner is the Arab world, mostly the GCC. Just like in the old days.

Also I believe that India has quite close strategic and military ties with countries such as Oman and UAE but I might be wrong here.

Where am I frustrated with India or angry? I have no problem with Indians or India and I am open for mutually beneficial ties like throughout most of our history together. Especially with Indian Muslims as we have much in common with them.

In any case I don't understand your (Pakistan and India's) animosity at all. Both of you tend to get along in the GCC and have more in common than the opposite.

Pakistan vs India hostilies is not really an Arab matter just like Arab (Palestinian mostly) and Israeli hostilities is not an Pakistani matter. I have seen an increasing number of Pakistanis on PDF saying that this does not matter to them. Indeed state wise it has little to do with Pakistan and states always act or at least should act for their own interests.

 

[Tiger Genie]

More India and GCC countries can trade and collaborate, the better both will be. That relationship ofcourse is not contingent upon anything else such GCCs relationship with Pakistan or India's with Iran Israel etc. India and Arabia has had trade relations for millenia and can learn a lot from each other. At a people level one change I personally would like to see is that of some Indians viewing Arabs as under-civilized nomads that got lucky with oil and some Arabs treating poor Indian labor as less than equal human beings.

 

[Full Moon]

Indians, you have got a secret weapons in your hands for the GCC folks.

Boys, it is the rice !!! If they ever upset you, boycott it for a few weeks and all of your demands will be accepted. Got it?

 

[Saif al-Arab]

More India and GCC countries can trade and collaborate, the better both will be. That relationship ofcourse is not contingent upon anything else such GCCs relationship with Pakistan or India's with Iran Israel etc. India and Arabia has had trade relations for millenia and can learn a lot from each other. At a people level one change I personally would like to see is that of some Indians viewing Arabs as under-civilized nomads that got lucky with oil and some Arabs treating poor Indian labor as less than equal human beings.

If some Indians have such views then they are truly ignorant as the Arab world is home to the oldest civilizations on the planet and it is considered the cradle of civilization. In the Arab world the oldest inhabited cities in the world can be found.

Cradle of civilization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Arabian Peninsula itself is home to some of the oldest civilizations on the planet and some of the longest inhabited cities.

Pre-Islamic Arabia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Moreovoer the Arabian Peninsula is the longest inhabited place on the planet after Southern and Eastern Africa along with Northern Africa.

Almost all people of India today, their ancestors once lived on the Arabian Peninsula for 1000's of years before they moved to India. This is a genetic fact that has been confirmed by genetic studies and the pattern of human migrations.



Both routes crossing the Arabian Peninsula.

Also Bedouins (one of the oldest people in the world famous for their poetry, warrior skills, music, hospitality (world famous and it has been romanticized in both Arab and Western culture) only make up 2-3% of all the 450 million Arabs. There are not many of them left and most if not all of them were pastoral nomads who moved from place to place depending on the access to agriculture etc.

Also they invented the Arabian horse (most famous horse in the world) and perfected falconry, tracking and also many crafts such as swords making, making rugs etc.

Good and simple people overall that are minding their own business. Their hospitality is really second to none.

Also some ignorant Arabs also believe that Indians live in jungles and cannot read or write and that they had no civilization other than in the North of the country. Equally idiotic/absurd claims.

Indeed, mutually beneficial relations for both parties (not only the GCC but the Arab world as a whole) would be a very good thing and I personally hope that KSA, the GCC and Arab world can have cordial relations with both Pakistan and India and try to broker peace between those two neighbors.

My two cent here.

Once again an interesting thread @Sam.

Indians, you have got a secret weapons in your hands for the GCC folks.

Boys, it is the rice !!! If they ever upset you, boycott it for a few weeks and all of your demands will be accepted. Got it?

Don't forget that much of the imported Basmati rice also originates from Pakistan and Bangladesh. If I am not wrong the GCC also imports quite a lot of rice from China, Indonesia etc. Nearby Ethiopia too.

Speaking about rice. Once there was a quite thriving rice production in the Eastern Province. Enough for the locals to be self-sufficient and even for some export to the immediate region.

Sadly this tradition is slowly dying out.

The agricultural sector needs serious reforms and the people should become much better at using the water in a clever way and not be so insanely wasteful.

That or hoping for climatical changes so more of the Arabian Peninsula can have a tropical/savannah like climate once again.

Read the article above. You won't regret it, bro. The focus is on the Peninsula which you can see when opening the link.

Cooling a planet with Revegetation

But for sure we cannot live without our rice. At least potatoes can always be grown they don't need this much water or we can make pasta. The option of beans exist too.

 

[Styx]

So the feeling is mutual if your goal was to provoke.

Our problems are with Pakistan, which is in a pathetic state today mostly because of gen Zia who radicalized his society Saudi style and gave the wahhabis a free run after the Iranian revolution.

I don't "suck up" to Iran, their mullahs are just as bad as your guys and I've said that many times.

"cradle of civilization" my ***, just look at the place.. iraq, libya, syria, yemen, egypt.. all crawling with jihadis.

anway, ties are cordial and will remain that way on the government level. The ME is not our mess, we just don't want any fallout affecting our population.

 

[Sam.]

@Geralt

The economically ties between the GCC and India (yearly trade volume numbering 160 billion dollars (!) and quickly approaching 200 billion dollars!) and trade balance is very much in favor of the GCC.

Also we don't care about who or what you prefer. Business is business and we don't look towards India either if we want to learn from the best but nearby Europe, USA or China. So the feeling is mutual if your goal was to provoke.

Besides the 200 million Muslim Indians have on many fronts very close cultural, religious and historical ties (and for some even ancestral) to the GCC and Arab world. Much more than you think. Your language Hindi is full of Arabic words, and Urdu which is spoken by over 60 million Indians is written in the Arabic alphabet. Indian Muslims see the GCC (KSA) as their spiritual "homeland" (Makkah and Madinah) and this obviously shows in the culture. Besides of that most Indians in the GCC or at least in KSA are Indian Muslims.

So your claim is nonsense unless you are speaking for some Indian Hindu from Tamil Nadu but even that part of India had trading and cultural ties with mainly the Arabian Peninsula for millenniums. Much more than any other region in the ME.

I know that you are an anti-Arab hater and sucking up to Iran constantly (like a few other Indian users - a sad sight as this sucking up is one-sided if you notice) so I won't bother discussing with you. Just wanted to write what I wrote above.

Also the 450 million Arabs (especially those in the Arabian Peninsula) and Indians historically had cordial ties and little to no animosity. Nor do I hate India or Indians and most Indians I know are friendly people who I have good relations with just like they have with most Arabs. I do enjoy Indian cuisine too which in many ways is quite similar to the one eaten in the Arabian Peninsula, especially Yemen and Hijaz due to mutual trade relations for milleniums.

@Sam. did you write that article yourself? Nice work and detailed.

I think that the next step in the relations will be a widening of the trade (diversification) and educational, technological and even military relations.

Business is business and Arabs know this better than anyone else historically. I would do business with the "Arab" (Sayyid) supreme leader of Iran if it benefited me.

Look my friend i would suggest you to ignore what people say but try to focus on what people do instead. Trade relation and people to people contact do means we have very cordial relation between two nation. We had bad view about USA too but when people start visiting USA and came back home with stories that views changing rapidly and it's same with KSA and GCC countries too.

Don't take me wrong but i had that view too but recently when my friend returned from Bahrain and one resides in KSA they told me stuff and it's not the negative one.

I would prefer people views than stupid media rhetoric. We have people to people contact with GCC and cultural ties with them and it's high time we give more importance to GCC which will be good for both parties and obvioulsy million of Indians who are working very hard there.

Yes next step should be educational and technological but we should not go to the military level relations yet.

Why is India an observer state to the Arab League then along with Brazil, Venezuela and Eritrea? At least Brazil has between 10-20 million people of Arab descent (7-10% of Brazil's population)

Arab Brazilian - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

and Venezuela too has a big Arab population

Arab Venezuelan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (5-7% of the population)

100.000 + Arabs live in Eritrea too.

Rashaida people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

but what about India? Sure millions of Indians claim to be Sayyid's and Arabs did indeed migrate to India and intermarried with locals and there are still certain Arab communities (Bohra's)

Dawoodi Bohra - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Their leader



but this was done mostly due to ancient cultural ties and economic reasons before anything else. I don't exactly recall what went before India gaining an observer status.

I don't think that GCC's pro-Pakistan stance (which might change due to recent events) plays any role here as India obviously had/has no problems with that considering the booming trade (most important kind of relation between states), hosting the largest Indian diaspora in the world etc.

In case you don't know it your biggest trading partner is the Arab world, mostly the GCC. Just like in the old days.

Also I believe that India has quite close strategic and military ties with countries such as Oman and UAE but I might be wrong here.

Where am I frustrated with India or angry? I have no problem with Indians or India and I am open for mutually beneficial ties like throughout most of our history together. Especially with Indian Muslims as we have much in common with them.

In any case I don't understand your (Pakistan and India's) animosity at all. Both of you tend to get along in the GCC and have more in common than the opposite.

Pakistan vs India hostilies is not really an Arab matter just like Arab (Palestinian mostly) and Israeli hostilities is not an Pakistani matter. I have seen an increasing number of Pakistanis on PDF saying that this does not matter to them. Indeed state wise it has little to do with Pakistan and states always act or at least should act for their own interests.

Yes we have very close security relations with UAE and Oman and we have naval listening station on oman too. Lots of people don't know that

Indians, you have got a secret weapons in your hands for the GCC folks.

Boys, it is the rice !!! If they ever upset you, boycott it for a few weeks and all of your demands will be accepted. Got it?

Brother most secret weapon we have our people who do hard work in GCC countries and surely win plenty of hearts in GCC countries and take that friendship to India when they returned.

Our problems are with Pakistan, which is in a pathetic state today mostly because of gen Zia who radicalized his society Saudi style and gave the wahhabis a free run after the Iranian revolution.

I don't "suck up" to Iran, their mullahs are just as bad as your guys and I've said that many times.

"cradle of civilization" my ***, just look at the place.. iraq, libya, syria, yemen, egypt.. all crawling with jihadis.

anway, ties are cordial and will remain that way on the government level. The ME is not our mess, we just don't want any fallout affecting our population.

Factually they do have old civilizations link buddy and nobody can deny that yes there is a problem in middle east but where it's not?

I think we all agree problem are there due to western world (not denying roots are on the ground itself) but why that much animosity towards middle east while we have very good relations with them.

It's high time we separate Pakistan and GCC matters and treat them differently.