India Pushes Russia For Greater Inclusion In Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft Development

[IndoCarib]

India and Russia have been long-term collaborators on defense technology. The two countries together produced the supersonic BrahMos cruise missile — the fastest cruise missile in production. The relationship hasn’t always been balanced in India’s favor, however, and this has come to light recently with India’s stake in the development of the Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft, based on the Russian Sukhoi T-50 (PAK FA).

According to Defense News, India has conveyed its displeasure to Russia over its “low level of participation in the joint development of the Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA), despite being an equal financial partner in the project and placing an order of more than US $30 billion for the new planes.” The joint effort is a major component of India’s continued air force modernization. According to RIA Novosti, India currently bears 50 percent of the costs of development.

In a visit to Moscow earlier this month, Indian Defense Minister A. K. Antony pushed Russia to increase India’s share of the development work to 50 percent, in line with its financial equity in the project. Antony, speaking at the 13th meeting of the India-Russia Inter-Governmental Commission on Military Technical Cooperation, stressed the necessity for the two longterm partners to cooperative equally in “all the phases — design, development and production — in the execution” of the FGFA project.

New Delhi’s push for equitable inclusion in military technical cooperation with Russia is related to its long-unachieved strategic goal of developing self-sufficiency in indigenous military production. India is the world’s largest importer of weapons technology. Indeed, Defense News cited a Russian diplomat in New Delhi as saying that part of the reason that the Russians limited India’s share in the FGFA project is due to “India’s capabilities in military aircraft research and industrial infrastructure.”

The agreement to jointly develop the FGFA was signed between the Indian and Russia Air Forces in 2007, with the final design, research, and joint development contract expected to exceed more than $10 billion. Although that contract is yet to be signed, Defense News reports that “In December 2010, Rosoboronexport, India’s state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics and Russian aircraft-maker Sukhoi signed a preliminary design development contract worth $295 million.”

The Indian Air Force is likely to order around 200 units of the single-seat, twin-engine fighters. The Sukhoi T-50 possesses a supersonic cruising ability which, combined with its ultra-manuverability, makes it a potent addition to the Indian Air Force. The jet is expected to increase the versatility of the Indian Air Force. As part of India’s stake in the development of the aircraft, it is expected to be able to specifically tune the units it purchases to the specific needs of its air force.

Antony’s visit to Moscow came just a couple days after India inducted the INS Vikramaditya — formerly the Russian Admiral Gorshkov. India’s naval modernization, which has reached new heights in recent years, has largely been dependent on its cooperation with Russia as well. In his recent visit, Antony also addressed a prospective nuclear submarine lease from Russia to India.


India Pushes Russia For Greater Inclusion In Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft Development | The Diplomat

 

[Munir]

Besides software there is nothing that India can do. And no other "co-producer" is willing to sell its secret. Let we look at Israeli India medium range SAM... Israel is not willing to share everything and India has nothing to add. Same same.

 

[IndoCarib]

Besides software there is nothing that India can do. And no other "co-producer" is willing to sell its secret. Let we look at Israeli India medium range SAM... Israel is not willing to share everything and India has nothing to add. Same same.

there is no secret once you agree to jointly develop a project. India currently bears 50 percent of the costs of development. We also would like to contribute in technology

 

[ptltejas]

Problem is with nuts politicians, not pay to research work, In missiles we have no option in world and we have made better. simultaneously with LCA develop the AMCA and also add the things. I think we need to develop key area beyond other countries and also to add private sectors who will give the better stage.

 

[he-man]

i am not very positive on this

but atleast we can add software on this??
we should select a team right now and give them the task of star working asap
secondly composites could be indian.i doubt we can make better ram than russia but even if we can make a slightly worse thing i am all for it.
then the cockpit displays will most probably be samtel-elbit one in our version.
tyres could be our own
on board oxygen generating system
rest of the things will be foreign so i am not sure what do we mean by 50%
we simply cannot do it

 

[ptltejas]

i am not very positive on this

but atleast we can add software on this??
we should select a team right now and give them the task of star working asap
secondly composites could be indian.i doubt we can make better ram than russia but even if we can make a slightly worse thing i am all for it.
then the cockpit displays will most probably be samtel-elbit one in our version.
tyres could be our own
on board oxygen generating system
rest of the things will be foreign so i am not sure what do we mean by 50%
we simply cannot do it

Well In LCA we have built many things, there ase two key things in the fighter plane;
1 fighter plance air frame, with special material, stealth, hydrolic system or acurators, fly by wire system, engine etc

and
2 Avionics, special display, communication, sensors, Radar, DAS, IRST, etc.

why we do not join the hand with Japan, Japan is better in electronics and innovatives too,
Israel may be ready for joint venture,
Display system etc may be made with assistance of samsung like company.

I dont think after LCA we are less in making a fighter, even if AMCA design is considered as better one and very rapid its feather in the crown. Rus might be due to that does not support india.

 

[he-man]

Well In LCA we have built many things, there ase two key things in the fighter plane;
1 fighter plance air frame, with special material, stealth, hydrolic system or acurators, fly by wire system, engine etc

and
2 Avionics, special display, communication, sensors, Radar, DAS, IRST, etc.

why we do not join the hand with Japan, Japan is better in electronics and innovatives too,
Israel may be ready for joint venture,
Display system etc may be made with assistance of samsung like company.

I dont think after LCA we are less in making a fighter, even if AMCA design is considered as better one and very rapid its feather in the crown. Rus might be due to that does not support india.

1)lca does not have an irst(if it does i was not aware)
2)das is copyright of northrop grumman and is not found in tejas
3)lca has radar elm 2032 which is israeli
4)rwr(tarang) and maybe maws are indian(check)
5)jet starter in indian,mission computers,mfd's are
so as u can see we have notmuch to contribute as pakfa requires very high quality components
2)

 

[faithfulguy]

there is no secret once you agree to jointly develop a project. India currently bears 50 percent of the costs of development. We also would like to contribute in technology

India would like to contribute in technology. But India has no technology to contribute. That is what he is saying.

 

[patentneer]

Bullocks!

Allow me to share my direct, 1'st hand experience from the aerospace industry.

• First, 70% is avionics. That's where the big advances are.

Second, not engines, not airframes. Both of these are well established tech. fields with only incremental bit-by-bit innovation. Plenty of professors around the world do cutting edge research in these fields, there's no black magic in them.

Third, consultants, often blue-eyed professors or their pet grad students, will consult you on anything and everything re: technology right out of the public funded university or institute lab.

Lastly, drones are due to replace fighters to the extent that insiders say the Russian and American 5'th gen. jets will be the last of the breed. With the fall of the Berlin wall and the peace break-out thereafter, there's no more business case for these pie-in-the-sky zombie's. Sure the above will keep a minimum fleet and yahoo's like Brazil, Canada, Oz and Germany can fly them at cost while China, India and Pakistan may continue their mini cold war and spit out their own version of the clunkers; the business is definitely on its way out.

Warfare business moved from land, to sea, to air and now to outer-space.

If you have the money, I can make you the best fighter jet in the world!

 

[he-man]

India would like to contribute in technology. But India has no technology to contribute. That is what he is saying.

sure for now we are behind
but in the next 10-15 years we are gonna stage a turnaround based on number of jv we are doing.
all these things take time,even now china struggles in engines even though it has 5 times to defence budget and 3-4 times the economy of india.

 

[faithfulguy]

1)lca does not have an irst(if it does i was not aware)
2)das is copyright of northrop grumman and is not found in tejas
3)lca has radar elm 2032 which is israeli
4)rwr(tarang) and maybe maws are indian(check)
5)jet starter in indian,mission computers,mfd's are
so as u can see we have notmuch to contribute as pakfa requires very high quality components
2)

Why bother with who is contributing in the technology? Sometimes, its not what you contribute that counts. Its the end result that count. If India is going to get the same result in the end as Russia. Everything should be fine.

sure for now we are behind
but in the next 10-15 years we are gonna stage a turnaround based on number of jv we are doing.
all these things take time,even now china struggles in engines even though it has 5 times to defence budget and 3-4 times the economy of india.

India is jointly develop a plane with Russia. And India is still way way behind Russians in aerospace technology. Even if India do not contribute anything besides money, than Russia is still getting the plane build. 10-15 year is still too short for India to turn anything around. For India to be where Russia is now, it would take generations.

 

[he-man]

Why bother with who is contributing in the technology? Sometimes, its not what you contribute that counts. Its the end result that count. If India is going to get the same result in the end as Russia. Everything should be fine.



India is jointly develop a plane with Russia. And India is still way way behind Russians in aerospace technology. Even if India do not contribute anything besides money, than Russia is still getting the plane build. 10-15 year is still too short for India to turn anything around. For India to be where Russia is now, it would take generations.

thats a very foolish statement.
i know what i am saying and u clearly don't.
the good thing about india is freedom of speech so i can criticise india in front of pm house and still have nothing to fear.
u on the other hand(assuming u are chinese) cannot even open facebook
so there are pro's and cons being indian wrt to chinese
and there isno denying the fact that currently we are behind but times change fast like china did after 1990's,,india is going in the same phase with young population now

 

[Indischer]

Idiotic request from India.
The LCA is a homegrown project. Why not think about pushing our participation in it 100%?? With imported subsystems ranging from the engine to radar on a 4th gen aircraft, what exactly does India want to produce anyway in a 5th gen aircraft to the tune of 50%?

 

[he-man]

Idiotic request from India.
The LCA is a homegrown project. Why not think about pushing our participation in it 100%?? With imported subsystems ranging from the engine to radar on a 4th gen aircraft, what exactly does India want to produce anyway in a 5th gen aircraft to the tune of 50%?

exactly
if we can't even make the avionics of dhruv helicopter then how the **** we will contribute in pakfa??

 

[victor07]

there is no secret once you agree to jointly develop a project. India currently bears 50 percent of the costs of development. We also would like to contribute in technology

On my point of view the key problem with completely mutual development of 5th generation fighter is the time. Russia wishes to complete the program as soon as possible, and I think India also wishes to have 5th generation sooner rather then later. Cooperation always leads to delays. In case of India the delays might be longer due to difference in levels of key tecnologies.