Featured India Passes Law Making Compulsory Teaching of Hindu Ramayana and Gita in Islamic Madrassas

[PakistaniAtBahrain]

You had my rapt attention till the very end. Only your last para spoiled the mood a bit.
Anyways a good post.

its a common theme with non-muslims. this only start making sense when one starts studying islam then all the connections between the major religions of the world, races, why we are here, what is our purpose, etc makes sense. i wasnt always like this. my mind only opened when i started reading more about islam, as well as how the other religions are connected to it.

I never knew about Prophet Muhammed's prophecy in Hindu scriptures. Would love to know more about it.

refer to Dr Zakir Naik's books and lectures. you can find a lot of it on youtube. he is Indian from Mumbai, i am sure you must have heard of him.

Masla yehi hai that I am saying God is same for Hindus, Muslims etc, whereas you are saying that you Hindus do not know God at all or whoever you are praying is not God. We can agree to disagree.

Islam was always meant to be the religion that corrects all the other religions. that is why Allah left clear prophecies about the coming of a special messenger in the scriptures of all the major world religions. Islam isnt the fastest growing religion by chance. most muslims cant even speak Arabic, the language the Quran was revealed in. so there has to be a reason why Islam not only refuses to die, but keeps growing. it can survive in a desert or a palace.

Idol worship is not a core Hindu belief.

i agree. the most important hindu scriptures strictly opposes (outright bans) idol worship, and this law comes straight from the God of hindu scriptures. so who had the right to challenge the word/law of God and start idol worship?

It was felt that without an actual thing to concentrate on, people's thoughts can easily wander. Hence idols were made so that people can assume those to be the forms of God and concentrate on God using those as props.

if God says humans can worship God and concentrate just fine without the idols, then if they are truly followers of God they would obey his orders.

No I am telling that religion has lost its relevancy and it would be better if India and surrounding countries learnt from China in this regard...

how has being irreligious been working out for Europe? have you heard what their demographers are saying will happen to Europe in the coming decades?

 

[Gilljutt]

Islam is an Abrahamic religion.

God made a covenant with Abraham. Islam is the resultant fulfillment of promise to Abraham.

Abraham was a semite.

The word Allah was known to people before Prophet of Islam was born in a semitic tribe in Makkah called the Quraysh.

The miracle of the Last Prophet is Quran.

You need to get your basics right before offending anyone.

You are telling me that religion is dead while Indian army is systematically being Hindutvacised?

What kolaveri is this

Listen you can believe anything you want but if you bring it up in a debate then you better back it up with evidence. And not some "it is written" statement. Religion should be outside the bounds of discussion, because it relies on belief without evidence.

 

[PakistaniAtBahrain]

Listen you can believe anything you want but if you bring it up in a debate then you better back it up with evidence. And not some "it is written" statement. Religion should be outside the bounds of discussion, because it relies on belief without evidence.

every religion is filled with evidence if you take the time to read it and ponder.

 

[Gilljutt]

Again society not the religion. Find me one reference to Eunuchs or Harems in Quran. Hinduism has a codified caste system, calls for Satti and your temples are adorned with acts of sexual depravity including beastiality.

Hold we have can you and El Sidd coordinate what Pakistani muslims think

Hinduism is a geographical term given to collection of polytheistic theology which most Arab, Persian and Turkmen migrants identified differently to their own belief system.

Much of it can still be attributed to British protectionism and colonial governance needs.

Can pdf please get their view on Hindus down?

El Sidd says that Hindusim is a geographical term. (For which he got a like)
You are saying that Hindusim is a codified religion. (For which you got a like)

So which is it?

every religion is filled with evidence if you take the time to read it and ponder.

Example please.

 

[magra]

Yes I would. Wouldn't you?

Ok.. but then Indonesia is muslim majority and a stable democracy too. So any religion is fit for democracy then, right?

 

[PakistaniAtBahrain]

Can pdf please get their view on Hindus down?

those who have looked into hinduism without bias can see clearly that it started off as Islam. the signs are too many and too great for it to be any other way. but it deviated from the straight path like all the other religions.

Example please.

you want examples from Islam?

Ok.. but then Indonesia is muslim majority and a stable democracy too. So any religion is fit for democracy then, right?

no. the only religion that can guarantee a stable democracy forever is islam.

 

[313ghazi]

A slightly tangential question.
I never understood why Madressas are needed by Muslims. I am not saying stop doing it. Just a curious question.

Other religions - Hinduism, Christanity, Buddhism etc do not have any equivalent system like that. They learn about their religion from their elders at home, through self-reading, from movies, documentaries, visiting places of worship etc.

Is Islam so difficult to understand that children need to go to a separate school and invest years understanding it?

Good question. Unfortunately madrasa today is a lowly bastardisation of the original institutes. There are still some excellent institutes but by far most are a shell of what they should be.

Islam is not a religion where the main purpose is ritual worship. Namaz (our 5 time daily prayers) might be the most physically involved aspect of our religion and the most visible but it is not the core of it.

Islam is a complete code for our lives. It dictates out laws, our trade, our diets, our dress, our morality, even how we govern. It defines all of that.

If course not everyone must be a legal expert or a scholar, but are expected to be aware of the fundamentals of our faith.

The madrasa is the traditional school for Muslims. There was no separate educational institutions - the madrasa taught everything - sciences, mathematics, philosophy, history, languages, all as well as religion.

If course not all Muslims were so well educated, nor all institutes so well equipped but it was our version of school.

Today we go to separate schools and madrasa has been reduced for most people as a place where they go to learn the rituals of prayer. We have gutted them. We've done the same to our masjids. What were once central hubs of our community are today mere temples where we perform prayers and leave.

 

[magra]

its a common theme with non-muslims. this only start making sense when one starts studying islam then all the connections between the major religions of the world, races, why we are here, what is our purpose, etc makes sense. i wasnt always like this. my mind only opened when i started reading more about islam, as well as how the other religions are connected to it.

My interactions online are teaching me about various religions and philosophies. I feel this is a better way of learning rather than going through a static text (religious book written thousands of years ago)

refer to Dr Zakir Naik's books and lectures. you can find a lot of it on youtube. he is Indian from Mumbai, i am sure you must have heard of him.

I have seen some bits of his public interaction videos on Youtube. I find Sadhguru more palatable to my taste.

Islam was always meant to be the religion that corrects all the other religions. that is why Allah left clear prophecies about the coming of a special messenger in the scriptures of all the major world religions. Islam isnt the fastest growing religion by chance. most muslims cant even speak Arabic, the language the Quran was revealed in. so there has to be a reason why Islam not only refuses to die, but keeps growing. it can survive in a desert or a palace.

You are right that Islam grew pretty rapidly. However, now it is mostly growing due to higher birth rate among existing muslim population (mostly in Africa).
My mind fundamentally rejects exclusivity. My mental make up has been set in the inclusive way of thought that all paths lead to God.

i agree. the most important hindu scriptures strictly opposes (outright bans) idol worship, and this law comes straight from the God of hindu scriptures. so who had the right to challenge the word/law of God and start idol worship?

Which scripture has banned idol worship? And what do you mean by God of Hindu scriptures? There is no clear hierarchy in Hindu scriptures. Hinduism itself is not an organized religion to have any formal hierarchy or set coded beliefs. Anyone can believe anything and still be Hindu.

I know its confusing. Dont worry. Just follow your own path to reach God. Not an issue.

no. the only religion that can guarantee a stable democracy forever is islam.

as of today, I see many Islamic nations with dictatorship and very few with democracy. I personally think religion and democracy are not related to each other.

 

[magra]

Good question. Unfortunately madrasa today is a lowly bastardisation of the original institutes. There are still some excellent institutes but by far most are a shell of what they should be.

Islam is not a religion where the main purpose is ritual worship. Namaz (our 5 time daily prayers) might be the most physically involved aspect of our religion and the most visible but it is not the core of it.

Islam is a complete code for our lives. It dictates out laws, our trade, our diets, our dress, our morality, even how we govern. It defines all of that.

If course not everyone must be a legal expert or a scholar, but are expected to be aware of the fundamentals of our faith.

The madrasa is the traditional school for Muslims. There was no separate educational institutions - the madrasa taught everything - sciences, mathematics, philosophy, history, languages, all as well as religion.

If course not all Muslims were so well educated, nor all institutes so well equipped but it was our version of school.

Today we go to separate schools and madrasa has been reduced for most people as a place where they go to learn the rituals of prayer. We have gutted them. We've done the same to our masjids. What were once central hubs of our community are today mere temples where we perform prayers and leave.

So what you would prefer is taking some time out of regular curriculum in school each day to impart religious learning instead of a separate school altogether for it, right?

 

[Gilljutt]

Ok.. but then Indonesia is muslim majority and a stable democracy too. So any religion is fit for democracy then, right?

No there are always outliers. Indonesian just recently became a Muslim nation, right? Before that the were Hindus, no? So they have only been Islam since the 16th Century and geographically and socially they are quite isolated from the rest of Islam (except Malaysia)

those who have looked into hinduism without bias can see clearly that it started off as Islam. the signs are too many and too great for it to be any other way. but it deviated from the straight path like all the other religions.



you want examples from Islam?


no. the only religion that can guarantee a stable democracy forever is islam.

What signs? You mean like the "cult of the moon".

Name a stable Muslim democracy other than Indonesia and maybe Turkey. Indonesia is partially secular and Turkey is all secular.

 

[PakistaniAtBahrain]

My interactions online are teaching me about various religions and philosophies. I feel this is a better way of learning rather than going through a static text (religious book written thousands of years ago)

you will learn more from the Quran than by speaking to me

I have seen some bits of his public interaction videos on Youtube. I find Sadhguru more palatable to my taste.

i have no time for scholars like Sadhguru that dont like to debate other scholars.

You are right that Islam grew pretty rapidly. However, now it is mostly growing due to higher birth rate among existing muslim population (mostly in Africa).

Islam also has a high conversion rate. its not just birth rates.

all paths lead to God.

not in Islam. logically all paths cant lead to God when there are different instructions in each religion on any given topic.

Which scripture has banned idol worship? And what do you mean by God of Hindu scriptures? There is no clear hierarchy in Hindu scriptures. Hinduism itself is not an organized religion to have any formal hierarchy or set coded beliefs. Anyone can believe anything and still be Hindu.

refer to Dr Zakir Naik. i find it hard to even pronounce the hindu scriptures names, let alone remember the names.

as of today, I see many Islamic nations with dictatorship and very few with democracy. I personally think religion and democracy are not related to each other.

many muslim countries have dictatorships because outside powers want it that way. removing the dictators would cost a lot of blood and most are too scared to do it.

as of today, I see many Islamic nations with dictatorship and very few with democracy. I personally think religion and democracy are not related to each other.

depends on your definition of democracy. everyone seems to have their own version. one thing is for certain, and that is humans cant keep their societies functioning for long without God.

Name a stable Muslim democracy other than Indonesia and maybe Turkey. Indonesia is partially secular and Turkey is all secular.

Tunisia, Malaysia.

You mean like the "cult of the moon".

what is that?

 

[magra]

you will learn more from the Quran than by speaking to me

I havent even read the Vedas, Upanishads, Gita etc yet.

i have no time for scholars like Sadhguru that dont like to debate other scholars.

Not all religious thinkers debate. Anyways, Islam is a proselytizing religion. So Islamic scholars debate to explain how their religion is better. Hinduism is not proselytizing (it is not even an organized religion), so Hindu scholars dont care to debate. They just teach their philosophies without entering into debates.

Islam also has a high conversion rate. its not just birth rates.

Where is the conversion most happening? Europe?

not in Islam. logically all paths cant lead to God when there are different instructions in each religion on any given topic.

Heard of the elephant and five blind men story?

one thing is for certain, and that is humans cant keep their societies functioning for long without God.

So you believe Chinese society wont survive for long?

 

[El Sidd]

It is similar. How do you trust Abraham and believe he got a convenant from God? He must have showed the humans some miracle then.

Abraham posed them a question by destroying all idols and placing the axe with the biggest one.

How do you know that Quran was only real miracle and other miracles are false.

Quran is the only surviving miracle. It throws an open challenge to refute it

Kolaveri mean anger. You wanted a word for madness I guess

Madness and anger are but the same thing

No I am telling that religion has lost its relevancy and it would be better if India and surrounding countries learnt from China in this regard...

This is simply not correct. Even China has shown appreciation of religion.

Listen you can believe anything you want but if you bring it up in a debate then you better back it up with evidence. And not some "it is written" statement. Religion should be outside the bounds of discussion, because it relies on belief without evidence.

Maybe that's why religious discussions are not allowed on the forum.

 

[magra]

Abraham posed them a question by destroying all idols and placing the axe with the biggest one.

Posed a question to whom? And why was his 'question' preceded with him breaking idols? '

Already explained in earliest post. Idols are not Gods in itself. These are mere props to help concentrate your thoughts towards God.

If breaking idol would have meant breaking God, then God drowns every year on the shores of Mumbai on Ganesh Visarjan.

Quran is the only surviving miracle. It throws an open challenge to refute it

Sure, we accept Quran and Allah, as we accept Jesus and Bible, and as we accept Gita and Krishna. All paths lead to the same divine.

 

[El Sidd]

Posed a question to whom? And why was his 'question' preceded with him breaking idols?

Probably himself first and the people later. The question didn't motivate him to take out the idols, the answer did.

He was thrown in the fire after priests ruled against him just like Jesus and Moses.