India-Pakistan Standoff September 2016 - Member opinions

[Trying to be honest]

Interesting, UNGA will be over soon with Pakistan not gaining much traction. Escalation from Indian side will most likely start post that, if any.

 

[X-2.]

So what if Nawaz Sharif met with them? What does that prove? Let's see what they have to say against India.

We don't expect much against India but to put through our case rightfully so there shouldn't be blame game
No one can impose sanctions it's just game of diplomacy on international forums

 

[Arshad mahmood Hussain]

https://twitter.com/x/status/778294752349392896

 

[Hellfire]

who are you kidding? You know I've seen some wise posts from you so I've built some respect for you. But remember, I don't open my mouth until I know what I am talking about. In Jammu, there was a HUGE push and incentives by the Indian government to move to Kashmir as settlers (I don't know how old you are but late 50's and early 60's). So trust me, I don't have much time to spread fanboy stuff on here. I just go with the facts.

You are way off on facts on this one. Overall troop strength, including Paramilitary forces and JK Police does NOT cross 350000 in whole of J & K.

We that is @Joe Shearer and I have given the breakdown a number of times.

 

[ravi gupta]

So, you have NOTHING. No Monkey dancing in a cage like Yadav. All you have is "bark bark bark bark". Boring as usual.

No we had Ajmal Kasab,however we hang him.

 

[Lurch Adams]

Look, it's probably true that if the unspoken Pakistani objective behind this regular bleating at UNGA is to make India look as ridiculous as themselves, then they probably succeed for the moment. Yes, it is indeed tragic for Indians that at a world forum their country is spoken of in the same breath as a terrorist-sponsoring, nuclear-proliferating semi-failed state.

However, Pakistanis should note that at best they can expect is that the world may show apathy by asking India to "restrain" it's actions. It is correct to say that it shows India in a poor light that despite the overwhelming evidence of Pak-sponsored terrorism, there are no UN resolutions to that effect. However, not even "all-weather" alms-givers like Saudi and China are willing to give a clean chit to Pakistan about terrorism emanating from there. The evidence is overwhelming.



See East Pakistan (71') and Balochistan (always!!) and the entire Zarb-e-Azb theatre for an excellent illustration of what the brave army of Pakistan has done to those which it claims to be its own people. No other country which denies being in a state of civil war has used Air Power so rampantly against it's own civilian population.

 

[Joe Shearer]

who are you kidding? You know I've seen some wise posts from you so I've built some respect for you. But remember, I don't open my mouth until I know what I am talking about. In Jammu, there was a HUGE push and incentives by the Indian government to move to Kashmir as settlers (I don't know how old you are but late 50's and early 60's). So trust me, I don't have much time to spread fanboy stuff on here. I just go with the facts.

Please check facts on the ground.

Not a single square foot of land in Jammu and Kashmir is owned by anyone other than those defined as State citizens under Kashmiri law.

There are Indians resident in Kashmir Valley, and these are itinerant labourers, bhaiyas from Bihar and UP, who work on road construction and civil engineering projects, usually in shanty towns, a privileged few in tents or temporary shelters. They are regularly killed by terrorists, and nobody bothers to write about it in the Kashmiri misery industry, aka media.

There are many more Indians resident in Jammu, and they too are without land. They can lease property but never own it.

There has been no demographic change in Jammu and Kashmir since 1947. You can check not merely from the census statistics, but from self-avowed separatists, who publish voluminously on every subject under the Sun.

I do not know where this argument started, but there are approximately 7 million (6.9 to be hair-splitting accurate) citizens in the Vale, and less than 350,000 soldiers and policemen.

who are you kidding? You know I've seen some wise posts from you so I've built some respect for you. But remember, I don't open my mouth until I know what I am talking about. In Jammu, there was a HUGE push and incentives by the Indian government to move to Kashmir as settlers (I don't know how old you are but late 50's and early 60's). So trust me, I don't have much time to spread fanboy stuff on here. I just go with the facts.

 

[Lurch Adams]

I would keep it simple. Just one question.

So when is US imposing sanctions on Pakistan for Uri attacks?

How about a return question. What is your opinion on all the sanctions imposed on Pakistan by US and all the statements made about "snakes in the backyard" and "do more on terrorism" etc. Do you think that American response in those cases means anything?

And if not, then why does it matter to you whether or not there are sanctions for Uri? When humiliated, you brush it off as meaningless, but when not slapped, you tom-tom it as triumph? What is that?

 

[Areesh]

How about a return question. What is your opinion on all the sanctions imposed on Pakistan by US and all the statements made about "snakes in the backyard" and "do more on terrorism" etc. Do you think that American response in those cases means anything?

And if not, then why does it matter to you whether or not there are sanctions for Uri? When humiliated, you brush it off as meaningless, but when not slapped, you tom-tom it as triumph? What is that?

My question again. When is Pakistan going to be sanctioned as you guy claim all the time?

 

[WaLeEdK2]

Tensions have been highest since 2008. Things might get interesting this time though.

 

[Side-Winder]

Ok so i came across this hilarious video. Just couldn't stop myself sharing it here . LMFAO

@Windjammer @Tipu7

 

[MilSpec]

who are you kidding? You know I've seen some wise posts from you so I've built some respect for you. But remember, I don't open my mouth until I know what I am talking about. In Jammu, there was a HUGE push and incentives by the Indian government to move to Kashmir as settlers (I don't know how old you are but late 50's and early 60's). So trust me, I don't have much time to spread fanboy stuff on here. I just go with the facts.

Provide reference or bugger off..... Go peddle your BS on Nawaz Sharif threads.

Please check facts on the ground.

Not a single square foot of land in Jammu and Kashmir is owned by anyone other than those defined as State citizens under Kashmiri law.

There are Indians resident in Kashmir Valley, and these are itinerant labourers, bhaiyas from Bihar and UP, who work on road construction and civil engineering projects, usually in shanty towns, a privileged few in tents or temporary shelters. They are regularly killed by terrorists, and nobody bothers to write about it in the Kashmiri misery industry, aka media.

There are many more Indians resident in Jammu, and they too are without land. They can lease property but never own it.

There has been no demographic change in Jammu and Kashmir since 1947. You can check not merely from the census statistics, but from self-avowed separatists, who publish voluminously on every subject under the Sun.

I do not know where this argument started, but there are approximately 7 million (6.9 to be hair-splitting accurate) citizens in the Vale, and less than 350,000 soldiers and policemen.

Highly doubt the 6.9 million number, total strength of Indian army active is 1.2 million and reserve 1.1 million
http://pib.nic.in/newsite/erelease.aspx?relid=(Release ID :148814)

if the combined total of army is 2.3 million it is impossible that there can be 7 (6.9) million in j&k.
The entire northern command has about 300,000 soldiers at it's disposal, total deployment in J&K across all regiments of army is aroun half of that number and a similar figure of parmil in the region would not bring the forces at level higher than the 350k mark.

 

[SQ8]

Yes, we must push for peace and promote peace. But we must also prepare for the worst case scenario. War must not be encouraged but we must be ready if one is thrusted on us.



Please share:

1) When and how did PA shun his idea of peace, and while you're at it, what idea?

2) When and how he fought against his darling hindutva cabal for peace?

Again, that bold part is just you being a parrot on the argument. That being ready is what we have exersizes for.

1) Modi's visits to Pakistan were not to eat the PM's Nehari dinners; it was to push for a Kashmir less progress solution and get the issue back to track to CBMs and so on. But, the establishment was focused on not letting go of Kashmir and the increasing pressure from extremist groups like LeT on Pakistan abandoning Kashmir.

2) What makes you think that ANYONE besides Modi was interested in peace overtures? Everyone else in his cabinet and party is a bloodthirsty genocidal maniac. He is a hardline Hindu but a businessminded one and one who has a huge ego. He wanted an image of a founder of a union and for that he was willing to work.

@Oscar

Brother, I did not wish to offend anyone by starting this discussion and if anything I stated has offended you, then I apologize.

The idea is not offense on posts , it is to think beyond just aggression.
We cannot let our emotions dictate our national interests like it does for the Indians.
Take how the Chinese play their diplomacy; cold and disconnected and focused on their own interests but by a machiavallian approach.

This emotinal line of thinking got us the Taliban in Swat who played on what is a nation's wish for justice and removal of corruption, this emotional line of thinking brings in Zardaris and Musharraf's and Nawaz Sharifs.
It is impossible to eliminate emotions, but not impossible to have at least 20% whose brain is not using them all the time in these decisions.

 

[Spectre]

2) What makes you think that ANYONE besides Modi was interested in peace overtures? Everyone else in his cabinet and party is a bloodthirsty genocidal maniac. He is a hardline Hindu but a businessminded one and one who has a huge ego. He wanted an image of a founder of a union and for that he was willing to work.

You are wrong here. The other top 2 in first among equals are quite conciliatory and are politicians with no particular allegiance to a particular ideology. They being Arun Jaitley and Rajnath Singh

1. Modi: PM- Hardline. Hated by majority of Muslim community. Quick to forgive and forget for future gains.
2. Rajnath: HM - Pseudo Moderate. Shares good equations with Muslim community.
3. Jaitley : FinMin- Moderate. Has Kashmiri links but is quite reasonable. The wheeler dealer types.
4. Sushma: Foreign Min - Hardline. Can behave her self and has been doing so.
5. Parrikar: Def Min - Hardline. Cant behave himself. Foot in mouth disease

Rest are inconsequential. I would say besides Rajnath and Jaitley, none carry veto power and usually fall in line with PMO diktat.

The Dark Horse is our NSA - Ajit Doval. His stock is quite down these days due to repeated blunders.

Overall the present cabinet is the most coherent one with least self interest since Shashtri/ Early/IG days. UPA one was like a pack of hyenas.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

@Oscar

As an Indian I would like to say some thing in Modi's and India's defence

In Modi's defence ; we can say that he tried for peace but Failed

There are THREE instances

1 LOC clashes of 2014

2 Pathankot attack

3 The violence in Kashmir and this latest attack in Uri

As far as Kashmir is concerned ; Even The Congress will NEVER deliver it to Pakistan

So any peace formula will ultimately have to be Minus Kashmir

But the difference is that Modi is aggresively pursuing India's interests globally and
finally we will see that the clashes on LOC will become serious and dangerous
with many casualties

The Dark Horse is our NSA - Ajit Doval. His stock is quite down these days due to repeated blunders.

Doval is the PM's biggest strength ; he is very quite and efficient

And he doesnt throw his weight around ; the perfect team man

UPA one was like a pack of hyenas.

They were all Jackals and foxes
Hyenas are respectable and strong creatures ; They FIGHT with Lions