India: Pakistan sees no reason to stop supporting terrorists

[blain2]

Yeah.. but it is latest article on Global Arab Network and written by foreigner so it will expose pakistan in international arena and will make public opinion.

It will help India.

Make public opinion and then pursue it with diplomatic missions and lobbying and see the results.

Written by a foreigner?

Ashely Tellis is as Indian and rabidly anti-Pakistan as they come.

 

[Solomon2]

Did you ever asked your govt why 9/11 happend.

Yes.

It do not need to withdraw its forces just for one referendum. But after the result.

I don't recall that the GoP ever took such a position. If I recall correctly, the GoP wants Indian troops withdrawn, then a referendum. Please check and correct me if I'm wrong.

No referendum can occur......it is against our constitution ...Unlike pakistan occupied kashmir(no pakistan constitution is applied to them)....indian kashmir is the integral part of india...

As one can see, Pakistanis have no monopoly on inflexibility - for now.

Who told you this top secret. Its not the camps, its your brain filled

A few months back Dawn published a letter from an ex-PA officer complaining of this situation in Punjab. I haven't read of anyone contradicting it.

I do not think there is any more in the way of evidence or indicators that India needs in order to be assured about Pakistan's stand as far as militant groups are concerned.

For now the Indians - and outside observers like me - simply think that some "non-state actors" Pakistan has sponsored in the past got out of control. Assurance is needed that Pakistan isn't training new ones.

Luckily, the recipe for doing so is readily available. Pakistan can assure India by making humble pie: fessing up to past activities, swearing off new activities, and promising a "trust but verify" approach to spice things up and make the diplomatic pot bubble into new and productive activity.

That will put the onus for failing to move forward on India, as it hasn't been for decades.

First of all Solomon2 you need to check the facts regarding 71 and Kashmir issue.

I researched the 1965 conflict over Kashmir and just from the State Dept's FRUS material and it's pretty damning as far as Pakistan is concerned. As for 1971, you're writing to a guy who in 1971 had a Pakistani diplomat break down in his living room in tears over the East Pakistan situation and the PA's role in events there.

Many nations on this earth never admit to their wrongdoings, atleast i see many Pakistanis admit the mistakes of their past leadership and acknowledge the result it had on Pakistan.

Let it all hang out, I say! It should do the country a lot of good.

However it would be absolutely foolish to disregard the Indian role as mere moral support...India was involved in training the Mukti Bahni and aiding them via active covert support.

Yep. And the incompetence of the GoP's reaction, both military and civilian, was shocking in its inhumanity. (That the Nixon Administration initially supported the GoP in its murderous endeavors to keep the East is a matter of shame for Americans, though somewhat balanced by the open revolt of the State Department personnel who helped bring about change.)

It is not self created by Paksitanis, Kashmir is something which is a genuine issue.

I think it was convenient for both sides to perpetuate the issue, because their newly divided military leadership wanted an excuse to stay on top, and simply as a matter of distinguishing Pakistan from India. The cause of Kashmir has become a part of Pakistan's identity, has it not?

Currently there is no threat to India in Kashmir militarily since India has actually an overwhelming number of troops in Kashmir

Isn't the large number is necessary to keep out infiltrators from Pakistan? Think of how many Pakistani posters here advocated, a year or so ago, that the U.S. heavily man the Pakistan-Afghan border as a way of controlling terrorist activity? This is the advice India followed, as it possesses much greater manpower than the U.S.

Pakistani leaders never supported terror as a state policy so for them to say sorry for terrorism is not going to happen.

I believe the U.S. State Department archives, not Pakistani leaders. Let them eat crow, then matters can move forward.

What PAksitani leaders could do was to say ok we want to talk and we shall not support militants against India so let us resolve the Issue. You go and read what happened in Musharraf era -

Not enough. The credibility of Pakistan's military and civilian leadership is low. It's gotta be backed by action. It was under the Musharraf presidency, after all, that U.S. aid was diverted to the Taliban.

Mumbai was a tragedy but the fact is that it was so open and so away from Kashmir, there is no semblance of any logic for Pakistan to plan such an attack which is purely terrorist in nature -

But there was. The new civilian GoP was trying to reign in the ISI and put it under civilian control. What better way to abort such a process (freezing all military personnel in their current positions) than creating an imminent threat of military conflict with India?

Does any intelligence agency worth its salt plan such an attack against all sense even if it is cruel enough to consider terrorism against civilians as a valid option?

The GoP was perfectly willing to let civilians suffer under Taliban rule last year before employing the PA to defeat them. Just to teach the populace the lesson that no matter how corrupt and awful the Pakistani government is, the Taliban are worse.

Pakistan is ready to talk and Pakistanis want the issue resolved, however it took some steps regarding Kashmir which are totally unappreciated by India after Mumbai, this is unfair to Pakistan -

I don't doubt you. But to make a real impact, some drama is needed, something that will put the onus on India in the eyes of the world, not just some tactical trick that yields to a passing mood.

Too much blood has been shed and we want to see peace...it is as simple as that.

Remember, too much blood was shed in 1965 and 1971, yet Pakistani leaders were willing to shed even more, even if the effort had very little chance of victory. You say you want that to change and I accept that. So what will you do to hold your leaders accountable to your desire?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Yeah.. but it is latest article on Global Arab Network and written by foreigner so it will expose pakistan in international arena and will make public opinion.

It will help India.

Ashley Tellis was born, raised and educated Indian - he is far from being an unbiased or credible voice on Indo-Pak affairs, and he has shown that bias in his past work as well.

Education

B.A., M.A.; University of Bombay; M.A., Ph.D., The University of Chicago

While on assignment to the U.S. Department of State as senior adviser to the Undersecretary of State for Political Affairs, he was intimately involved in negotiating the civil nuclear agreement with India.

Previously he was commissioned into the Foreign Service and served as senior adviser to the ambassador at the U.S. Embassy in New Delhi.

http://www.carnegieendowment.org/experts/index.cfm?fa=expert_view&expert_id=198

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Do Pakistanis ever ask themselves what actions their country's leaders have taken to create enemies and perpetuate conflict?

There is more open introspection and analysis on the debacle of 1971 (and other past conflicts) in the mainstream media in Pakistan then there is on the subject of racism and slavery in the US, or the Maoist or Khalistani insurgencies (forget Kashmir) in India.

So yes, Pakistanis do question, do analyze and do ask themselves the tough questions on history unlike some other nations.

Does Pakistan really want it resolved, or are Pakistani leaders satisfied with a perpetually hostile and unconstructive stance? Because of the activities of "Pakistani infiltrators" (the U.S. State Department's language) India can't withdraw its forces to let Kashmir determine its own fate, as per U.N. resolutions and Kashmiris' desire; it would mean an almost immediate takeover by Pakistani forces.

Complete nonsense - the Indian leadership, from her Prime Minister, UN ambassador, foreign secretaries and minister had unilaterally declared on the record in the late fifties that they were no longer interested in the plebiscite and would look to convert the LoC into the International Border. The decision to move away from the UNSC resolutions was therefore one taken by India, without any provocation by Pakistan - the Pakistani provocation to send infiltrators into Occupied Kashmir came about years after the GoI had in essence declared its unilateral withdrawal from the UNSC resolutions, and therefore closed the door on the mutually and internationally agreed upon mode of resolving the dispute.

So yes, Pakistan does want it resolved, it is the Indians who have been intransigent over first negotiations over troop levels in J&K and then over their decision to discard the UNSC resolutions completely and impose their preferred solution (loC as border).

Why should Indian leaders show flexibility as long as Pakistan is busy scoring own goals and discrediting itself? If Pakistani leaders renounced terror as a tactic, confessed to past nefarious activities, and then offered to talk to resolve Kashmir, that would really put India in a diplomatic bind. Then the ball would be in India's court.

Pakistan has not used 'terror' as a tactic to renounce it - lets not state bald faced lies here, nor are there any 'nefarious activities' to confess to. We have condemned terrorism and taken action against the alleged masterminds of the Mumbai attacks, whose case is pending in court. We have also offered continuously to talk on Kashmir, it is India that has refused to talk, and at the same time sponsored terrorism in Baluchistan and the rest of Pakistan.

Yet what kind of public support can Pakistani leaders count on for such a policy with India? How many Pakistanis at PDF would support it?

Why would there be any public support for the position based on lies and distortions you presented? There is public support for negotiations towards dispute resolution that takes into account the wishes of the Kashmiris, and there is public support for continued assistance to the freedom fighters fighting Indian occupation and tyranny if India continues to display her traditional intransigence on resolving the dispute.

Perfectly reasonable public positions, unlike the half-truths and distortions you wish to peddle.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

All Pakistan-India relations related threads need to go in the Strategic Affairs section.

 

[Major d1]

What is the root of terrorism ? today's world? And who are patronizing the formula ? Terrorism doesn't mean bank robbery- ( On the behalf of the definition of terrorism). How it began and why it is happening and who want to control it - we should find out all those questions answer. I say - It is clash of Ideology. Nothing more- Nothing less.

What is the root of terrorism ? today's world? And who are patronizing the formula ? Terrorism doesn't mean bank robbery- ( On the behalf of the definition of terrorism). How it began and why it is happening and who want to control it - we should find out all those questions answer. I say - It is clash of Ideology. Nothing more- Nothing less.

 

[T90TankGuy]

What is the root of terrorism ? today's world? And who are patronizing the formula ? Terrorism doesn't mean bank robbery- ( On the behalf of the definition of terrorism). How it began and why it is happening and who want to control it - we should find out all those questions answer. I say - It is clash of Ideology. Nothing more- Nothing less.

What is the root of terrorism ? today's world? And who are patronizing the formula ? Terrorism doesn't mean bank robbery- ( On the behalf of the definition of terrorism). How it began and why it is happening and who want to control it - we should find out all those questions answer. I say - It is clash of Ideology. Nothing more- Nothing less.

Why are you restarting 6 yr old threads ? its against the rules.

 

[Major d1]

Why are you restarting 6 yr old threads ? its against the rules.

I am sorry- Actually i am newbie, not actually not newbie, I was an old member. But for a long time didn't respond in this forum. So forgot everything. Hope you understand my post position. I will not go against the FORUM rule. Insha"Allah.

Regards.