India Pakistan Comparison 2010

[Naradmuni]

India Pakistan Comparison 2010

Your hatered cannot alter the destiny of soon to be superpower India. Signs are already out in open. Better compare the international stature of India and pakistan rather than comparing how rural people defecate in open or otherwise.

This blog is a big nuissance and a crappy e-debry.

 

[Hutchroy]

Why people people from other countries like Indian ****? And keep discussing about it again and again.

The Honourable Member in question seems to be afflicted by the “Latrine Syndrome” which has caused him to suffer an obsession with the “Daily Evacuation except when Constipated” Paranoia.

Have a Heart - Let him wallow in it!

 

[karan.1970]

I have heard of verbal Diarrhea.. Seeing it expressed electronically for the 1st time....

I cant seem to remember , but I have seen this facsination with Indian Defecation process somewhere else too... hmm....

 

[Roby]

India might be an emerging economic power, but it is way behind Pakistan, Bangladesh and even Afghanistan in providing basic sanitation facilities, a key reason behind the death of 2.1 million children under five in the country.Lizette Burgers, chief water and environment sanitation of the Unicef, Monday said India is making progress in providing sanitation but it lags behind most of the other countries in South Asia.

Ohh! That really hurts man...
Please spare us..

 

[satishkumarcsc]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4c/Kathipara.jpg

seems like your faziabad junction

http://www.processregister.com/Chennai_Port-Maduravoyal_Four_Lane_Elevated_Road/Project/pid23275.htm

ongoing infra projects by NHAI

 

[Skeptic]

Riaz Saab

Please ponder over this: Pakistan has just stated it will divert 30% of the money meant for Development to Security and increase the salaries of Armed Forces. Guess your target audience just changed. Ask the government to undo the changes and tell poor Pakistanis that even if they die in a bomb blast - They will die after shitting in a proper toilet.

Over 30pc uplift funds earmarked for security

ISLAMABAD: The cabinet decided on Wednesday to make major budgetary adjustments, including diversion of more than 30 per cent (Rs170 billion) from development and income support programme for the poor towards security expenditure, changes in macroeconomic estimates and at-source deduction of provincial electricity bills.


The cabinet decided to increase with immediate effect the salaries of armed forces officers by 15 per cent and of other personnel by 20 per cent to bring them on a par with those fighting terrorism on western borders.

Briefing newsmen after the meeting along with Information Minister Qamar Zaman Kaira and Water and Power Minister Raja Pervez Ashraf, Finance Minister Shaukat Tarin said even after mid-year adjustments, the budget deficit could touch “5.3 per cent of the GDP instead of 4.9 per cent target”, but all attempts would be made to contain it.

He said the axe had fallen on the social sector because of an unbudgeted burden of Rs310 billion – Rs170 billion in the shape of additional security expenditure, Rs85 billion for electricity companies, Rs20 billion in additional support to the textile industry, Rs10 billion for Railways and Rs25 billion for the Utility Stores Corporation.

To meet this gap, Mr Tarin said, the government would rationalise the public sector development programme by Rs125-150 billion and get a saving of Rs20 billion from Benazir Income Support Programme’s unspent funds, besides earning an additional Rs60 billion profit from the State Bank of Pakistan.

The net gap was still estimated to be about Rs80 billion that meant the budget deficit could reach 5.3 per cent of the GDP (Rs800 billion), instead of targeted 4.9 per cent or Rs722 billion, he added.

The minister said that despite taking over of Rs216 billion liabilities from power companies and injecting Rs85 billion, the circular debt stood at around Rs62 billion.


The minister said the inflation at 10.5 per cent was much lower than last year’s 23.3 per cent. He said wheat production target might fall short by about 2 million tons, but last year’s surplus would be more than enough to meet local demand.

He said the government would have to improve revenue collection machinery, which was crucial to stop Rs1.5 trillion annual losses faced by the economy.

The minister for water and power said the cabinet decided to adopt all the 11 recommendations of the ADB that took about five months to complete its third part audit of the rental power projects. He said the electricity rates would go up by 6.1 per cent if eight RPPs of 1,156MW were implemented as advised by the ADB, but the increase could go up to 9.9 per cent if 14 RPPs of 1,994MW were realised. He, however, agreed that the increase did not take into account the impact of oil that was a pass-through item and its prices could not be estimated.

 

[TechLahore]

Riaz Saab

Please ponder over this: Pakistan has just stated it will divert 30% of the money meant for Development to Security and increase the salaries of Armed Forces. Guess your target audience just changed. Ask the government to undo the changes and tell poor Pakistanis that even if they die in a bomb blast - They will die after shitting in a proper toilet..

See, this is the sort of rhetorical nonsense that robs you of all credibility. You think India has a better terror record than Pakistan? Or that people in India are a lot safer?

Over a sustained period of time, India has been worst affected by terrorism, save Iraq. Yes, India is #2 on the list right after Iraq. Take a look at this TOI report which uses data from the US National Counter Terrorism Center. Please come forth and either deny these figures or accept the reality.

India loses maximum lives to terror except Iraq - India - The Times of India

Now, the let me do a comparison that is extremely unfair to Pakistan. The worst comparison I can think of... let's take the worst year Pakistan has ever had in terms of terrorism, 2009.

How many Pakistanis were killed in 2009 - the absolute worst year for Pakistan in the WoT? 3,300.

DAWN.COM | National | Terror incidents claimed 3,300 lives this year

How many Indians have been killed in terrorism related incidents in 2008, the last year for which I could find complete data? 2,577

Government releases number of civilian, SFs, terrorists, naxalites killed in 2009

And while I am using the WORST year ever for Pakistan as comparison, 2008 is clearly not the worst year for India (Gujrat riots, anyone?).

So please, spare us the crap. You can spout nonsense to someone who doesn't know the subcontinent and try and make Pakistan out to be "Ooooo so dangerous" but good luck trying to pull that stunt here.

Please also note that acts of violence in J&K have subsided year over year since the past many years. The 2008 numbers for India are significantly lower because of this positive trend also. May I remind you that when relations between Pakistan and India worsen, one of the immediate fallouts is in Kashmir where violent participants (on both sides) are emboldened and empowered.

While the world has acknowledged that the actions of the Pakistan Army through late 2009 and early 2010 have broken the back of the TTP in Pakistan, the same cannot at all be said about the rising Naxalite violence in India.

And if you are trying to make the point that Pakistan redirecting 30% of budget monies towards the security initative is some sort of failure, perhaps you need to read the news without blinders. We are able to redirect these funds because far more than the redirected amount has been won by our Foreign Office in friendly assistance. China, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, UAE, USA, UK, France, Japan and many others have invested in development projects in Pakistan and assisted with IDPs and other victims. The internal budgetary reallocation doesn't mean that less money will be spent on development. Pakistan is running larger projects now - over the past 5-6 years - than at any other time in its history. The 1.5B Khalifa refinery with the UAE, Bhasha Dam, $20B Rail project with Iran/Turkey, Gwadar port and continued expansion of Gwadar city with China/UAE, new city outside Islamabad with UAE, significant expansion of Lahore with UAE/Malaysia, various motorways with Turkey/China, alternate power generation (wind and other) with Turkey and the list goes on and on.

I look forward to your response and why you think India is so much safer. Based on fact, not hearsay, propaganda and rhetorical garbage.

 

[RiazHaq]

If you view the video of Dalrymple at IQ2 debate, it made this very point based on his own personal experience. There are two points specifically that he mentioned:

1. He drove around las year in Rajhastan and Sind, and found that both have similar safety issues. There are areas where it's not safe to travel. He also added that roads in Sind are "infinitely" better than in Rajhastan.

2. The Maoists insurgency in India is no less serious than the Taliban insurgency in Pakistan.

See, this is the sort of rhetorical nonsense that robs you of all credibility. You think India has a better terror record than Pakistan? Or that people in India are a lot safer?

Over a sustained period of time, India has been worst affected by terrorism, save Iraq. Yes, India is #2 on the list right after Iraq. Take a look at this TOI report which uses data from the US National Counter Terrorism Center. Please come forth and either deny these figures or accept the reality.

India loses maximum lives to terror except Iraq - India - The Times of India

Now, the let me do a comparison that is extremely unfair to Pakistan. The worst comparison I can think of... let's take the worst year Pakistan has ever had in terms of terrorism, 2009.

How many Pakistanis were killed in 2009 - the absolute worst year for Pakistan in the WoT? 3,300.

DAWN.COM | National | Terror incidents claimed 3,300 lives this year

How many Indians have been killed in terrorism related incidents in 2008, the last year for which I could find complete data? 2,577

Government releases number of civilian, SFs, terrorists, naxalites killed in 2009

And while I am using the WORST year ever for Pakistan as comparison, 2008 is clearly not the worst year for India (Gujrat riots, anyone?).

So please, spare us the crap. You can spout nonsense to someone who doesn't know the subcontinent and try and make Pakistan out to be "Ooooo so dangerous" but good luck trying to pull that stunt here.

Please also note that acts of violence in J&K have subsided year over year since the past many years. The 2008 numbers for India are significantly lower because of this positive trend also. May I remind you that when relations between Pakistan and India worsen, one of the immediate fallouts is in Kashmir where violent participants (on both sides) are emboldened and empowered.

While the world has acknowledged that the actions of the Pakistan Army through late 2009 and early 2010 have broken the back of the TTP in Pakistan, the same cannot at all be said about the rising Naxalite violence in India.

And if you are trying to make the point that Pakistan redirecting 30% of budget monies towards the security initative is some sort of failure, perhaps you need to read the news without blinders. We are able to redirect these funds because far more than the redirected amount has been won by our Foreign Office in friendly assistance. China, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, UAE, USA, UK, France, Japan and many others have invested in development projects in Pakistan and assisted with IDPs and other victims. The internal budgetary reallocation doesn't mean that less money will be spent on development. Pakistan is running larger projects now - over the past 5-6 years - than at any other time in its history. The 1.5B Khalifa refinery with the UAE, Bhasha Dam, $20B Rail project with Iran/Turkey, Gwadar port and continued expansion of Gwadar city with China/UAE, new city outside Islamabad with UAE, significant expansion of Lahore with UAE/Malaysia, various motorways with Turkey/China, alternate power generation (wind and other) with Turkey and the list goes on and on.

I look forward to your response and why you think India is so much safer. Based on fact, not hearsay, propaganda and rhetorical garbage.

 

[karan.1970]

See, this is the sort of rhetorical nonsense that robs you of all credibility. You think India has a better terror record than Pakistan? Or that people in India are a lot safer?

Over a sustained period of time, India has been worst affected by terrorism, save Iraq. Yes, India is #2 on the list right after Iraq. Take a look at this TOI report which uses data from the US National Counter Terrorism Center. Please come forth and either deny these figures or accept the reality.

India loses maximum lives to terror except Iraq - India - The Times of India

Now, the let me do a comparison that is extremely unfair to Pakistan. The worst comparison I can think of... let's take the worst year Pakistan has ever had in terms of terrorism, 2009.

How many Pakistanis were killed in 2009 - the absolute worst year for Pakistan in the WoT? 3,300.

DAWN.COM | National | Terror incidents claimed 3,300 lives this year

How many Indians have been killed in terrorism related incidents in 2008, the last year for which I could find complete data? 2,577

Government releases number of civilian, SFs, terrorists, naxalites killed in 2009

And while I am using the WORST year ever for Pakistan as comparison, 2008 is clearly not the worst year for India (Gujrat riots, anyone?).

So please, spare us the crap. You can spout nonsense to someone who doesn't know the subcontinent and try and make Pakistan out to be "Ooooo so dangerous" but good luck trying to pull that stunt here.

Please also note that acts of violence in J&K have subsided year over year since the past many years. The 2008 numbers for India are significantly lower because of this positive trend also. May I remind you that when relations between Pakistan and India worsen, one of the immediate fallouts is in Kashmir where violent participants (on both sides) are emboldened and empowered.

While the world has acknowledged that the actions of the Pakistan Army through late 2009 and early 2010 have broken the back of the TTP in Pakistan, the same cannot at all be said about the rising Naxalite violence in India.

And if you are trying to make the point that Pakistan redirecting 30% of budget monies towards the security initative is some sort of failure, perhaps you need to read the news without blinders. We are able to redirect these funds because far more than the redirected amount has been won by our Foreign Office in friendly assistance. China, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, UAE, USA, UK, France, Japan and many others have invested in development projects in Pakistan and assisted with IDPs and other victims. The internal budgetary reallocation doesn't mean that less money will be spent on development. Pakistan is running larger projects now - over the past 5-6 years - than at any other time in its history. The 1.5B Khalifa refinery with the UAE, Bhasha Dam, $20B Rail project with Iran/Turkey, Gwadar port and continued expansion of Gwadar city with China/UAE, new city outside Islamabad with UAE, significant expansion of Lahore with UAE/Malaysia, various motorways with Turkey/China, alternate power generation (wind and other) with Turkey and the list goes on and on.

I look forward to your response and why you think India is so much safer. Based on fact, not hearsay, propaganda and rhetorical garbage.

A few observations:

1. In your pakistan numbers, you seem to have taken the numbers for civilians and security forces only where as India numbers also include the terrorists killed (which is almost 50% of the numbers)
2. Your figures seem to have excluded the deaths due to sectarian violance in Balochistan atleast. The figure of 35 for 2009 is too low considering YTD figures till April itself were higher than that. I am not even counting the sectarian viloance in other parts of Pakistan. On the India side, though you have used the numbers from Naxalism and NE insurgancy as well which is very different from the terror related numbers you have put in for pakistan

Looks like a bit of creative accounting with deaths...


BTW.. Saw your blog.. very nice and forward looking.. Was a refreshing change after looking at Haq's musings

 

[RiazHaq]

Here are some figures to consider:

India has deployed about 100,000 paramilitary troops to fight the Maoists. Compare that to the 30,000 deployed by Pak Army in Waziristan.

Haq's Musings: India Deploys 100,000 Troops Against Maoists Revolt

A few observations:

1. In your pakistan numbers, you seem to have taken the numbers for civilians and security forces only where as India numbers also include the terrorists killed (which is almost 50% of the numbers)
2. Your figures seem to have excluded the deaths due to sectarian violance in Balochistan atleast. The figure of 35 for 2009 is too low considering YTD figures till April itself were higher than that. I am not even counting the sectarian viloance in other parts of Pakistan. On the India side, though you have used the numbers from Naxalism and NE insurgancy as well which is very different from the terror related numbers you have put in for pakistan

Looks like a bit of creative accounting with deaths...


BTW.. Saw your blog.. very nice and forward looking.. Was a refreshing change after looking at Haq's musings

 

[Skeptic]

See, this is the sort of rhetorical nonsense that robs you of all credibility. You think India has a better terror record than Pakistan? Or that people in India are a lot safer?

Over a sustained period of time, India has been worst affected by terrorism, save Iraq. Yes, India is #2 on the list right after Iraq. Take a look at this TOI report which uses data from the US National Counter Terrorism Center. Please come forth and either deny these figures or accept the reality.

India loses maximum lives to terror except Iraq - India - The Times of India

Now, the let me do a comparison that is extremely unfair to Pakistan. The worst comparison I can think of... let's take the worst year Pakistan has ever had in terms of terrorism, 2009.

How many Pakistanis were killed in 2009 - the absolute worst year for Pakistan in the WoT? 3,300.

DAWN.COM | National | Terror incidents claimed 3,300 lives this year

How many Indians have been killed in terrorism related incidents in 2008, the last year for which I could find complete data? 2,577

Government releases number of civilian, SFs, terrorists, naxalites killed in 2009

And while I am using the WORST year ever for Pakistan as comparison, 2008 is clearly not the worst year for India (Gujrat riots, anyone?).

So please, spare us the crap. You can spout nonsense to someone who doesn't know the subcontinent and try and make Pakistan out to be "Ooooo so dangerous" but good luck trying to pull that stunt here.

Please also note that acts of violence in J&K have subsided year over year since the past many years. The 2008 numbers for India are significantly lower because of this positive trend also. May I remind you that when relations between Pakistan and India worsen, one of the immediate fallouts is in Kashmir where violent participants (on both sides) are emboldened and empowered.

While the world has acknowledged that the actions of the Pakistan Army through late 2009 and early 2010 have broken the back of the TTP in Pakistan, the same cannot at all be said about the rising Naxalite violence in India.

And if you are trying to make the point that Pakistan redirecting 30% of budget monies towards the security initative is some sort of failure, perhaps you need to read the news without blinders. We are able to redirect these funds because far more than the redirected amount has been won by our Foreign Office in friendly assistance. China, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, UAE, USA, UK, France, Japan and many others have invested in development projects in Pakistan and assisted with IDPs and other victims. The internal budgetary reallocation doesn't mean that less money will be spent on development. Pakistan is running larger projects now - over the past 5-6 years - than at any other time in its history. The 1.5B Khalifa refinery with the UAE, Bhasha Dam, $20B Rail project with Iran/Turkey, Gwadar port and continued expansion of Gwadar city with China/UAE, new city outside Islamabad with UAE, significant expansion of Lahore with UAE/Malaysia, various motorways with Turkey/China, alternate power generation (wind and other) with Turkey and the list goes on and on.

I look forward to your response and why you think India is so much safer. Based on fact, not hearsay, propaganda and rhetorical garbage.

See this is the reason why you come across as an extremely biased commentator.

If Pakistan is justified in transferring 30% of its development money into security (Internal and External) how is India not justified in maintaining its defence and internal security budget (which is in line with several other countries from the region).

Just that you keep on inventing new tapes when it comes to comparing India and Pakistan.

Keep Musing, its quiet amusing.

 

[RiazHaq]

See this is the reason why you come across as an extremely biased commentator.

If Pakistan is justified in transferring 30% of its development money into security (Internal and External) how is India not justified in maintaining its defence and internal security budget (which is in line with several other countries from the region).

Just that you keep on inventing new tapes when it comes to comparing India and Pakistan.

Keep Musing, its quiet amusing.

Anyway you look at it, over $30 billion is too much money to buy expensive toys for Indian military when one out every two Indian children is malnourished, one of our of every three illiterate adults in the wold is an Indian, two-thirds of Indians defecate in the open, and India ranks near the bottom on achieving the MDG goals. It's serious issue with priorities. It's callous to condemn Indian's children to permanent brain damage from lack of food.

The country is an “economic powerhouse but a nutritional weakling”, said the report by the British-based Institute of Development Studies (IDS), which incorporated papers by more than 20 India analysts. It said that despite India’s recent economic boom, at least 46 per cent of children up to the age of 3 still suffer from malnutrition, making the country home to a third of the world’s malnourished children. The UN defines malnutrition as a state in which an individual can no longer maintain natural bodily capacities such as growth, pregnancy, lactation, learning abilities, physical work and resisting and recovering from disease.

In 2001, India committed to the UN Millennium Development Goal of halving its number of hungry by 2015. China has already met its target. India, though, will not meet its goal until 2043, based on its current rate of progress, the IDS report concluded.

Pakistan at 45 ranks well ahead of India at 62, and Pakistan is included in the medium performing countries. PHI is a new composite indicator – the Poverty and Hunger Index (PHI) – developed to measure countries’ performance towards achieving MDG1 on halving poverty and hunger by 2015. The PHI combines all five official MDG1 indicators, including a) the proportion of population living on less than US$ 1/day, b) poverty gap ratio, c) share of the poorest quintile in national income or consumption, d) prevalence of underweight in children under five years of age, and d) the proportion of population undernourished.


“It’s the contrast between India’s fantastic economic growth and its persistent malnutrition which is so shocking,” Lawrence Haddad, director of the IDS, told The Times. He said that an average of 6,000 children died every day in India; 2,000-3,000 of them from malnutrition.

Haq's Musings: Is India a Nutritional Weakling?

Haq's Musings: Indian Arms Build Up Prelude to South Asian Arms Race

 

[TechLahore]

See this is the reason why you come across as an extremely biased commentator.

If Pakistan is justified in transferring 30% of its development money into security (Internal and External) how is India not justified in maintaining its defence and internal security budget (which is in line with several other countries from the region).

Just that you keep on inventing new tapes when it comes to comparing India and Pakistan.

Keep Musing, its quiet amusing.

Are you on something?

Show me one instance where I've said that India is not justified in maintaining its security(External/Internal) budgets . I'm thrilled to see India spend whatever it spends on both these items. They should increase it further very significantly... increase the percentages and hard amounts drastically, in fact. That's wonderful.

While you are imagining things and attributing them to me, I see you didn't have any responses for the actual facts I referenced.

 

[TechLahore]

A few observations:

1. In your pakistan numbers, you seem to have taken the numbers for civilians and security forces only where as India numbers also include the terrorists killed (which is almost 50% of the numbers)
2. Your figures seem to have excluded the deaths due to sectarian violance in Balochistan atleast. The figure of 35 for 2009 is too low considering YTD figures till April itself were higher than that. I am not even counting the sectarian viloance in other parts of Pakistan. On the India side, though you have used the numbers from Naxalism and NE insurgancy as well which is very different from the terror related numbers you have put in for pakistan

Looks like a bit of creative accounting with deaths...


BTW.. Saw your blog.. very nice and forward looking.. Was a refreshing change after looking at Haq's musings

Karan, I don't believe in creative accounting. I can only use figures that are in the public domain and generally accepted. You may question their veracity, but the overall point is made. India is also afflicted by terror of various varieties so the self-righteous statement that caused me to point all of this out stands discredited.

Also, while you question some of the specific numbers etc. you didn't comment on the US National Center for Counter Terrorism's #2 Terror ranking for India, behind Iraq. I don't want to get into a finger pointing match here... just saying that while you may question one or two stats, it is hard to ignore the entire body of evidence.

Thank you for visiting the blog and for your positive comments. Appreciate it.

 

[Skeptic]

Are you on something?

Show me one instance where I've said that India is not justified in maintaining its security(External/Internal) budgets . I'm thrilled to see India spend whatever it spends on both these items. They should increase it further very significantly... increase the percentages and hard amounts drastically, in fact. That's wonderful.

While you are imagining things and attributing them to me, I see you didn't have any responses for the actual facts I referenced.

India is spending more on defence when it has poor population as well was Riaz's quote. That was aimed at Riaz.

As for the terrorist situation in Pakistan:
Terrorism killed more than 12,000 in Pakistan last year, report says+

So if you include security forces, Its 3X India. Hope that answers the FACTS.