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India & Pakistan Ceasefire Violations

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BATMAN

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Indian forces violating ceasefire accord again
Thursday November 29, 2007 (0750 PST)

Pakistan News Service - PakTribune

KOHI RATA: Again violating the ceasefire agreement at line of control, the Indian forces started provoked firing at Check Post of Pakistani forces here in border village of Kohi Rata, causing panic among the local residents.

The Pakistani brave forces responded positively, however, no loss of life or property was reported.

The Indian forces violated the ceasefire accord by starting unprovoked firing of 15 LMG at Check Post of Pakistani forces situated in Chatter Jhatot Bahadar village of Kohi Rata from Perocall Post of India.

The bullets also hit local house in the village; however, there was no words of causality. The Jawan of Pakistani army responded positively and bravely. It was the second time that the Indian forces violated the ceasefire accord in a week causing panic among the local people of village.

Bravo cowards, from IA's point it is now or never situation. Now our Army is busy fighting terrorists crossing across from Afghanistan. In normall circumstance PA brains will be fully available to thawrt Indian agressions.
 
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Its a now and never situation for India?

A cross border firing, which India claims to have been done by the Pakistanis , is adequate to destroy Pakistan and not a full scale war?

Is that what you are suggesting? You seriously have doubt about Pakistan's ability to defend itself. You think Pakistan is a House of Card which can be blown down! Reveille man. Pakistan is not that weak a country as you wish to portray it to be!

Get matured and stop being an alarmist and get cold feet with paranoia. Unlike you, I am confident that Pakistanis are made of sterner stuff! And I know for sure that Pakistan cannot be destroyed by one cross border firing, notwithstanding the cold feet that you personally get at every action and reaction!

In normall circumstance PA brains will be fully available to thawrt Indian agressions.

Even in these trying conditions Pakistan is in, it can defend itself. Be rest assured. You may not have confidence in Pakistan, but anyone with an iota of sense will realise that you are have a weak heart and you see ghosts where there is none!!!!

Brace up, man!
 
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In Pakistan it's called "Oongly Kar Na". Small Flareup can lead to a Big one. So, it will be in the best interest of India that it should not look for an opportunity, thinking that it's Army is deployed on Western Front, Top Brass are changing Hands and Election campain is about to begin. Indian Govt should be aware that "Jaag Raha Hai Pakistan" (Pakistan is awake).
 
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In Pakistan it's called "Oongly Kar Na". Small Flareup can lead to a Big one. So, it will be in the best interest of India that it should not look for an opportunity, thinking that it's Army is deployed on Western Front, Top Brass are changing Hands and Election campain is about to begin. Indian Govt should be aware that "Jaag Raha Hai Pakistan" (Pakistan is awake).
Guys... Chalta hai.
 
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India says Pakistan fired first and Pakistan says vice-versa. I am not surprised by this news. It has always been a "blame game" Indo-Pakistani relations. India says Pakistan can solve the Kashmir issue in hours and Pakistan says vice-versa. Its about time that we took care of our people. Generationsss have been lost due to this stupid and unsensible attitudes of our country. Its about time that the governments of our countries thought about the people suffering from this long dispute.:pakistan:
 
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In Pakistan it's called "Oongly Kar Na". Small Flareup can lead to a Big one. So, it will be in the best interest of India that it should not look for an opportunity, thinking that it's Army is deployed on Western Front, Top Brass are changing Hands and Election campain is about to begin. Indian Govt should be aware that "Jaag Raha Hai Pakistan" (Pakistan is awake).

in Punjabi its called Bh*** ich ungal kar naa... i'd say both r pangaybaaz ...
Indian govt doesnot want to invade Pakistan duh.... hardly matters what Pakistan is doing...
 
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India says Pakistan fired first and Pakistan says vice-versa. I am not surprised by this news. It has always been a "blame game" Indo-Pakistani relations. India says Pakistan can solve the Kashmir issue in hours and Pakistan says vice-versa.Its about time that we took care of our people. Generationsss have been lost due to this stupid and unsensible attitudes of our country. Its about time that the governments of our countries thought about the people suffering from this long dispute.:pakistan:

where is the Indian flag???

a174cfbcaa0129eec1db9fbb18af5eea.jpg


I think with increasing P2P contact only will situation the situation improve.. though it can/will/shall/ought to take decades...

Kashmir is a hopeless issue.. ego tussle.. Kashmiris were,are and shall be the losers.. sorry..

welcome to politics of Indian Sub-Continent.. where both govts will never actively work to improve situations.. some spoilsports will ruin it for all of us...
 
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hoodhood1 said:
In Pakistan it's called "Oongly Kar Na". Small Flareup can lead to a Big one. So, it will be in the best interest of India that it should not look for an opportunity, thinking that it's Army is deployed on Western Front, Top Brass are changing Hands and Election campain is about to begin. Indian Govt should be aware that "Jaag Raha Hai Pakistan" (Pakistan is awake).

Thanks.

Rather sagacious and original thought indeed!

However, before Musharraf, this used to be a daily affair and I sure can't recollect that a major war erupted because of one LC firing!
 
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'We have proof Pak violated ceasefire'

In what could be the first ceasefire violation by Pakistan this year, firing by Pakistani Rangers was reported in the Samba sector in Jammu last night Although BSF sources have stopped short of calling it a ceasefire violation calling it instead an 'attempted infiltration' by militants, the Pakistan government has denied any firing by the Pak rangers. Meanwhile, the sources from the Union Ministry of Home Affairs have categorically told TIMES NOW that the Border Security Force (BSF) has ample evidence that the firing was by Pak Rangers giving cover fire to a group of Pak militants.

What BSF says


The BSF says grenades have been recovered from the fence at the border and that the India-Pakistan border fence has also been damaged. It is still unclear as to whether the militants succeeded. Describing the incident, BSF says it noticed a spark at the electrified fence indicating someone was trying to cut it, and that alarmed officials to take positions to counter fire.

They say soon after this they had to counter 500 rounds of fire by Pakistani Rangers, which they now say was to provide cover for militants to enter India.

A K Mitra, DG of BSF in Jammu, said to TIMES NOW, "Apparently an effort has been made by some militants to infiltrate by cutting the fence. After the fence was cut an attempt was made, but this was spotted by one of sentries who opened fire on the intruder upon which a number of grenades were thrown from the other side. So we also retaliated and apparently the intrusion did not succeed. But it was a certainly a very serious attempt at infiltration made after a very long time... We are quite sure that no militants succeeded in crossing over, but just in case they did we have alerted our posts which are on that axis and we will be able to get them, that is not a problem."



Although BSF has stopped short of calling it a ceasefire violation calling it an attempted infiltration by militants - BSF officers were assessing the situation at the site of the incident and trying to ascertain which party had actually opened fire, before any blame is apportioned on the neighbouring government, sources said.

If it is conclusively proved that the Rangers had opened fire, this could be the first ceasefire violation since January 2008.

What is more alarming in this case is that this would be the biggest ever such incident taking place at the International Border. Infiltration is not uncommon on the Line of Control.

The IB is not a normal area from where militants might attempt to push into the Indian side, since it is fenced and heavily patrolled. Militants normally prefer easier routes opened out due to the melting snows in summer. It is also highly unlikely that militants could have reached the fence without the awareness of Pakistani border forces, says Jammu correspondent Pradeep Dutta. It appears to be a planned infiltration attempt, but what needs to be established is whether a planned formation of Pakistan forces, irregular or regular, was put in place to facilitate it.

From past experience, it appears likely that only about 5 or 6 militants may have been involved since this is a plain area with fencing. This means that two groups of militants would have to be involved - one group to try and sneak in and, on being challenged, a second group under covering fire makes it across border.

In any case, the encounter certainly is embarassing for both countries coming as it does just before a crucial visit by External Affairs Minister Pranab Mukherjee to Pakistan on 21st of May, when he is scheduled to meet his Pakistan counterpart Shah Mehmood Qureshi for peace talks.

The BSF sources therefore naturally were cautious in labelling the confrontation a ceasefire violation, using the words 'hostile fire'. However looking at the facts currently the question that needs to be answered now is, if it was simply 'hostile fire' to violate the peace - what constitutes 'friendly fire'?



Pak Army denies firing by Pak rangers


Meanwhile, the Pakistan government has denied any firing by the Pak rangers on Thursday (May Cool night. Speaking to TIMES NOW, DG inter services public relations -- Maj Gen Athar Abbas -- said that it was the Pak rangers, who heard the firing and called for a flag meeting. Abbas further said that on hearing the firing, he asked the BSF to explain as to whom they were firing on.


Voice of Major General A Abbas, DG, ISPR said:"Pakistan Rangers heard some firing on Thursday night and asked for a flag meeting both sides. There was no firing by the Pakistani Rangers and no casualties were reported. We don't know what the firing was about, BSF must clarify who they were firing on and trying to engage."


MHA to take up matter with Pakistan

Meanwhile, the sources from the Union Ministry of Home Affairs have categorically told TIMES NOW that the Border Security Force (BSF) has ample evidence that the firing was by Pak Rangers giving cover fire to a group of Pak militants.

The sources further added that a detailed report from the Border Security Force is awaited by the Ministry of Home Affairs. The Union Ministry of Home Affairs will take up the matter with the Union Ministry of External Affairs to discuss the joint Indo-Pak terror mechanism talks. The sources further added that firing from the Indian side was completely unprovoked and that our troops fired in retaliation. The Home Ministry has also directed the BSF to hold a flag meeting with the Pak rangers to sort out the issue. And the MHA is clear that if the matter persists, the Pak interior ministry would be intimated.


What next?


This incident will no doubt require some dialogue initiation on the part of both countries, bilateral relations apart. However an odd incident like this will not be allowed to stall the peace process, or the foreign minister level talks, according to defence expert Mahroof Raza. There will likely be no official mention of this incident and any talk of this will most likely be left to the border forces on both sides. The BSF is certainly going to ask for a flag meeting with the local commanders on the Pakistani side.

A meeting between BSF and Pakistani Rangers has been on the cards over a realignment of the fence in any case. The Indian side wants to take the fence more towards the Zero line so farmers can have more area for cultivation. No doubt this new development will also be discussed. The Rangers do not belong to the Pakistan military, but are on the payroll of the government, which has said on record in the past that violating a ceasfire is not a policy.

"I don't think this will create any difficulties - these sort of misunderstandings happen from time to time on the international border, especially with Afghanistan between Pakistani and US forces. It is conceivable that Rangers on this side and Indian security on the other may have got involved, but this is an unexpected and unplanned event. Both governments are aware a lot is at stake here in terms of the ceasefire and the peace talks, and things will not be blown out of proportion. There will probably be some comments from the Pakistani Foreign Office that may even say some people were trying to sneak across and the Rangers were taking action on them which was misunderstood. But beyond this there will be no damage. This new Pakistani government is committed to moving ahead with peace talks in agreement with its military, perhaps even more than Musharraf was," says prominent Pakistani journalist Najam Sethi, Editor, Friday Times.

Nevertheless, TIMES NOW Senior Editor Srinjoy Chowdhury observes that such things do have the potential to sour things, and it is important to know what the India's official stand is - whether Pakistani Rangers are seen to be involved. Though the PM is not expected to speak on the border violation today, a clarification from both sides, allocating blame, is likely since the Border and the LOC have been quiet for a long time.

TIMESNOW.tv - Latest Breaking News, Big News Stories, News Videos -
 
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A K Mitra, DG of BSF in Jammu, said to TIMES NOW, "Apparently an effort has been made by some militants to infiltrate by cutting the fence. After the fence was cut an attempt was made, but this was spotted by one of sentries who opened fire on the intruder upon which a number of grenades were thrown from the other side. So we also retaliated and apparently the intrusion did not succeed. But it was a certainly a very serious attempt at infiltration made after a very long time... We are quite sure that no militants succeeded in crossing over, but just in case they did we have alerted our posts which are on that axis and we will be able to get them, that is not a problem."

Where is the Pakistani firing in this version?

Seems an attempted infiltration occurred, and the GoI decided to use it as a propaganda tool to blame the Rangers for a ceasefire violation.

Going by the above story, if the BSF spotted the infiltration and fired, and had grenades thrown at it by the infiltrators, perhaps the Pakistani side retaliated to what they assumed was firing from the BSF, and the BSF though it was "covering fire".
 
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the question that begs to be pondered is... how did those "militants" get to the border... if I’m not wrong the Indo-Pak border is heavily patrolled and is quite militarized... so if they actually got to the border... does it not speak volumes about the fact that there are loopholes in the Pak side... sorry if I sound accusative... but this did not happen at the LoC... the incident took place at the IB...
 
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