India-Pakistan: Can We Ever Be Friends?

[doppelganger]

priciesli my point but the thing is indians will never let that happen and who ever propogates this notion will have its political career finished

It might be forced on to us as the refugees start swarming in.

 

[Jzaib]

The problem lies in the fact that the Zia doctrine is live and kicking in the PA. 'Bleeding India with a thousand cuts' is their signature tune especially after the 1971 war. Retribution for the loss is foremost in the psyche of the PA. They need to hurt India to get even. So any attempt at a detente is going to be a non-starter - unless of course there is a shift in this stereotypical thinking.

first of all Zia never said it. this sentence is made up by indian media and establishment . i have asked my indian friends to show me a neutral sorce or any interview .. any leader saying it ..they come up with nothng ..
Pakistani's have only one problem with kashmir and indian is ready to kill millions but not to grant the wishes of kashmiris. Im very pro india .. but who can inviders can be good friends .. they have to do a plabicite in kashmir and we can be best of friends ...

 

[indoPunjabi]

No thanks we're better off with crazy mullah jihadis. :p

 

[Jzaib]

see you guys should not cry about 71. India did NOT send indian terrorists in BD. Secondly and more importantly, india did not kill civilians in Punjab as part of terrorism. Pakistan is sending non kashmiris into Kshmir. second, pak sending Punjabi terror into indian cities. now that's the key difference.
evn I honestly wish that the ttp comes to power and implements sharia. I honestly wish that BLA and Sindh secede and all the Punjabi muslims lead a horrible life. but I am not going to cause terror to do that. you guys are killing innocent hindus in Bombay and Calcutta citing Kashmir. that's nothing but cowardly terror[/quote]

well will you be kool if we just kashmiris from azad kashmir....

BLA is very weak moment ..thats why it dont get any world attention ...

btw when ur army kill innocent kashmirs isnt that cowardly .. ? u r such a hypocrate when it come to killing of innocent people ... what happen in ur city is just karma ...

 

[Jade]

first of all Zia never said it. this sentence is made up by indian media and establishment . i have asked my indian friends to show me a neutral sorce or any interview .. any leader saying it ..they come up with nothng ..
Pakistani's have only one problem with kashmir and indian is ready to kill millions but not to grant the wishes of kashmiris. Im very pro india .. but who can inviders can be good friends .. they have to do a plabicite in kashmir and we can be best of friends ...

Why should you think that India would forgo Kashmir for friendship with Pakistan? What can Pakistan offer that would be valuable to India? I think none.

 

[GoodBoy]

If Pakistanis accept/convert back to their roots ie. Hinduism/Buddhism/Sikhism then peace is definitely possible and it would be a big empire.

Pakistanis can keep their country seperate and India would not mind.

 

[OrionHunter]

Pakistani's have only one problem with kashmir and indian is ready to kill millions but not to grant the wishes of kashmiris.

'Kill millions'? You mean there's no one left in Kashmir now? Jeeez! That sucks!

I think like East Germany, and probably soon North Korea, chances are great of Pakistan collapsing or descending into anarchy or bankruptcy, and eventually coalescing back into India.

I definitely think that we could handle the taliban and TTP and all the other crap much better than what Pakistan has been able to.

Hell's bells! You wanna become a failed state too?

 

[doppelganger]

Hell's bells! You wanna become a failed state too?

I know that argument bro. But if you consider we are essentially the same people, different ideologies, and its not being Muslim that is the problem per se, but the type of exclusionsist Islam that Pakistan's forefathers imposed on undivided India, I believe that if it came to a battle of minds and hearts in terms of influence and persuasion, between the two ideologies, eventually 1.2 billion people would prevail over 0.2 billion. The 0.15 billion on our east already seem to be making steps towards normalcy.

 

[funtoosh]

army doesn't kill people unlkess attacked. so shove your propaganda. its not karma is pak army causes terror in bombay.

 

[FaujHistorian]

Who cares about the feelings and wishes of some disgruntled people?

As far as I know, the Constitution of India does not provide the right to a disgruntled Indian to decide whether or not his state should continue to be part of the nation or not.

Of course, he always has the right to leave if he does not want to remain or finds a better future elsewhere. Legally of course.

FYI

Indian constitution does have a special status for Kashmir that is separate from North and Central parts.

Please dust off your knowledge about Indian.

Thank you

 

[SarthakGanguly]

FYI

Indian constitution does have a special status for Kashmir that is separate from North and Central parts.

Please dust off your knowledge about Indian.

Thank you

Wrong. There is no right to secede in that. None whatsoever.

 

[FaujHistorian]

I know that argument bro. But if you consider we are essentially the same people, different ideologies, and its not being Muslim that is the problem per se, but the type of exclusionsist Islam that Pakistan's forefathers imposed on undivided India, I believe that if it came to a battle of minds and hearts in terms of influence and persuasion, between the two ideologies, eventually 1.2 billion people would prevail over 0.2 billion. The 0.15 billion on our east already seem to be making steps towards normalcy.

Please do not spread ignorance. Thank you.

It was Hindus and Congressis who imposed their views and partitioned off Indian subcontinent.

Get yourself educated.

Follow the debate here:
Congressi Propaganda: Hindu Majority provinces and Muslim Majority provinces can't live together | Page 2

And see why Indians and Pakistanis are ignorant of their history. Then on top of that, they use 3rd grade Sarkari school history books to view people on the other side of the border and thus behave like ignoramus monkeys.


sorry to say.

Why should you think that India would forgo Kashmir for friendship with Pakistan? What can Pakistan offer that would be valuable to India? I think none.

pathetic comment.

Kashmir is not going to fly to Moon and mars if tomorrow they get a referendum.

They still will remain part and parcel of our region.

peace

 

[F.O.X]

Here are the reasons why peace can never be achieved until there's a paradigm shift in the psyche of the powers that be. I had posted this in some other thread but it got lost in the labyrinthine maze of traffic on PDF.

The problem lies in the fact that the Zia doctrine is live and kicking in the PA. 'Bleeding India with a thousand cuts' is their signature tune especially after the 1971 war. Retribution for the loss is foremost in the psyche of the PA. They need to hurt India to get even. So any attempt at a detente is going to be a non-starter - unless of course there is a shift in this stereotypical thinking.

The second side of the triangle is the insecurity of the PA. They seem to be paranoid about being enveloped by India in the East, and Afghanistan supported by India in the West and therefore are propping up the Taliban (Haqqani) to take over the helm after American troops withdraw. For this they have been supping with the devil for the past 10 years, playing a game of running with the hare and hunting with the hounds. The Americans know this but are caught in a cleft stick as without Pakistan the cost of the WOT in Afghanistan would become prohibitive. If the Pakistan Establishment hadn't helped and supported the Taliban all these years, the game would have been over in Afghanistan long ago.

This has resulted in drone attacks that have killed hundreds of terrorists but resulted in collateral damage too which in turn has given birth to the TTP which has been responsible for the massive casualties of Pakistanis - more than 50,000 soldiers and civilians killed and many more wounded. This has also given birth to a number of militant groups, all jostling for space. The Establishment's support to terrorist groups to fight their wars against India by proxy has started getting out of control with splinter groups charting their own course by getting help of groups inimical to Pakistan's interests. This melds into the third side of the triangle which is:

The need of the PA to keep the Indian 'threat' alive, without which the very raison d'etre of the PA would be at stake. Otherwise they would be sidelined and lose their credibility and importance in Pakistan. So they need an enemy to keep up the charade, which needless to say is India.

At the center of this triangle are the vested interests that need to keep Indo-Pak hostilities going and the pot boiling. An example is the JuD that collects millions of rupees from the sheeple by its anti-India tirades, without which contributions would dry up. They need a reason which is the 'liberation of Kashmir'. A very convenient motive as this could last for decades resulting in a steady flow of funds.

So, the question is: Do vested interest really want to solve the Kashmir dispute? The answer would be, NO!

I would also hasten to add that the Indian media and some politicians need to tone down their rhetoric and stop bashing Pakistan at the drop of a hat. This is vitiating the atmosphere, blowing out the sputtering candle of peace in the wind of hostility by providing a handle to the India-baiters to up the ante.

So, it's not just the conversion of the LoC or other such simplistic proposals that would sort out the Indo-Pak problem as many are led to believe. There are wheels within wheels - almost impossible to extricate from. And therefore, though Aman ki Asha is a noble concept, it will remain a non starter till well into the future.


What do you guys think? Is there hope?

So All the fault lies with Pakistan ??

I don't know whether to Laugh or to give a sarcastic comment .

This post of yours is also one of the reason we can never be Friends , as we always think that we are Right & true , The perfect saints , & the guy sitting on the other side is the incarnation of Devil .

So the Answer to your question , Lies in your own post .

 

[Indischer]

I think like East Germany, and probably soon North Korea, chances are great of Pakistan collapsing or descending into anarchy or bankruptcy, and eventually coalescing back into India. With that, Bangladesh will probably ask for remerger as well.

I definitely think that we could handle the taliban and TTP and all the other crap much better than what Pakistan has been able to.

That's one thing that's never going to happen.NEVER.
East or West, they considered themselves German. North or South, they considered themselves Korean. Here, Pakistan's identity is that We're NOT Indian! Sure, Pakistan might lose in a war with India, but other than a treaty with them to end all hostility & perhaps the rest of Kashmir, India would want nothing more with Pakistan & vice versa.
Plus, think of the huge boost the Muslims of the subcontinent would receive if the Indian, Pakistani and Bangladeshi Muslims united. India, for all it's secularism, will NEVER allow that either.

 

[Jade]

pathetic comment.

Kashmir is not going to fly to Moon and mars if tomorrow they get a referendum.

They still will remain part and parcel of our region.

peace

Why don't Pakistanis think same! Just because Kashmir remains a part of India, it doesn't goes to moon or Mars. Kashmir will always remain a part of the region