India Lost Kargil War

[Mugwop]

What I know for sure is 5353 lies right on the LOC ! And it may be the highest peak in the area but there are 2 equally high peaks around that .. which are under IA control.

Even if lets say IA lost 5353 .. the lives which might have been lost to reclaim was not worth it ?

Compare that to what pakistan did .. thousands of their brave soldiers died so that some few higher ups can have a try at their wet dreams ! They even didn't accept the dead bodies of their fallen ones ! How disgusting is that !

Were you in that war and did you count all our dead soldiers?

 

[acetophenol]

India lost 1971 war too

 

[Secur]

It is the only peak the other is a ridge which we are/were forced to sort of share. Umm. actually I can even tell you where the IA helipads are on that map, old gun sites (and I am not talking the pictorial representation news paper maps). You just need to know a few things- for example look at every map other than the one I posted- they have a glaring mistake- that alone will tell you who was up making those maps.

Unfortunately yes, showing an area on a map and under control are two very different things.

Locate me the Conway Saddle then . Of course , to a certain extent but not with accuracy , you require to confirm or deny such claims , at least that is what I have seen in previous debates on the same topic . Too tired , what mistake they be ?

The defense of which lies under the actual control of the Republic of India Rings any bells , Dillinger ? Or perhaps were the officers too lazy to move ahead of Leh ?

 

[Dillinger]

Locate me the Conway Saddle then . Of course , to a certain extent but not with accuracy , you require to confirm or deny such claims , at least that is what I have seen in previous debates on the same topic . Too tired , what mistake they be ?

The defense of which lies under the actual control of the Republic of India Rings any bells , Dillinger ? Or perhaps were the officers too lazy to move ahead of Leh ?

No, they were never told to move- the politicians did what Zia did- "not a blade of grass grows there".

I can locate the point in question itself with lat and lon. It takes time since the map I am using as a reference I cannot post here.

@Secur for example read up on 62 and see how many soldiers of the IA were even present along the LAC and what the IA did after 62.

 

[Secur]

No, they were never told to move- the politicians did what Zia did- "not a blade of grass grows there".

I can locate the point in question itself with lat and lon. It takes time since the map I am using as a reference I cannot post here.

@Secur for example read up on 62 and see how many soldiers of the IA were even present along the LAC and what the IA did after 62.

Even in a remote and hostile area , the troops maintain some patrolling . In my study , I didn't come across any Indian efforts to at least keep in check the declared frontiers of the " Indian Republic " . Is it the Govt duty to tell the army to safeguard its supposed borders ? I am aware of the famous quote , however it was only when the Indian Govt learned of the Chinese control not before .

No worries about the secret map , anyway Conway Saddle is a famous point . I know the strength , the problem here again is that the Indian Govt chose to do it , not the Mao in Peking .

 

[Dillinger]

Even in a remote and hostile area , the troops maintain some patrolling . In my study , I didn't come across any Indian efforts to at least keep in check the declared frontiers of the " Indian Republic " . Is it the Govt duty to tell the army to safeguard its supposed borders ? I am aware of the famous quote , however it was only when the Indian Govt learned of the Chinese control not before .

No worries about the secret map , anyway Conway Saddle is a famous point . I know the strength , the problem here again is that the Indian Govt chose to do it , not the Mao in Peking .

Patrols don't equal a battalion or even any combat capacity. Even today there are no outer lines of communication in the area- reference a detailed road map. Without which no meaningful war can be fought. On the other hand SARDP-NE is moving to create the same in Arunachal ergo China's demand for an infra freeze.

 

[Secur]

Patrols don't equal a battalion or even any combat capacity. Even today there are no outer lines of communication in the area- reference a detailed road map. Without which no meaningful war can be fought. On the other hand SARDP-NE is moving to create the same in Arunachal ergo China's demand for an infra freeze.

Yes , they dont but I wasn't talking about fighting a war here , you maintain some sort of presence in the area you claim , now dont you ? The IA never did . Even if they are extremely remote and the terrain is harsh and to put it simply - against you . Anyways , what is done , is done . What point there be in apportioning the blame ?

 

[Dillinger]

I wasn't talking about fighting a war here , you maintain some sort of presence in the area you claim , now dont you ? Even if they are extremely remote and the terrain is harsh and to put it simply - against you . Anyways , what is done , is done . What point there be in apportioning the blame ?

Only barely, let me put it this way- IF you wanted to patrol the Hindukush today- or even its foot in any meaningful manner- could you? I am not talking of posts and scattered sanghars- I am talking of ground dominance. It cannot be done, this is what happens when you move one step behind. In 62 you didn't have men, got outflanked. Today you have enough men ensuring that the whole region cannot be vertically enveloped and a reasonable MSR can be struck out then you find that you do not have the requisite all weather inner lines of comm. to reach the "line" itself. In fact at the moment we can patrol that area for no more than a weak at a stretch after which there could be 2-3 weeks where significant ares will be left uncontested. Our government is rather lucky that its just infiltration- IF the PLA decides to build a proper bunker 10-15 km into the Indian perception of the LAC they (GOI) will be in for a rude shock.

 

[Dillinger]

@Secur that's why you hear the IA talking of high intensity border wars across the LAC. Arunachal itself cannot be gobbled up- there are 4 corps there in the Eastern command and now enough airlift capacity to match (alone in itself) half of what the PLA has at the moment in terms of fixed wing airlift- plus the outer lines of comm. BUT if someone decides to just fight at the "line" itself- slice away just a little (in terms of representing it on a map- after all Siachen is rather small on a map but in terms of sq. miles its quite huge) territory then you're going to be racing against time to get there before the opponent does.

 

[Secur]

Only barely, let me put it this way- IF you wanted to patrol the Hindukush today- or even its foot in any meaningful manner- could you? I am not talking of posts and scattered sanghars- I am talking of ground dominance. It cannot be done, this is what happens when you move one step behind. In 62 you didn't have men, got outflanked. Today you have enough men ensuring that the whole region cannot be vertically enveloped and a reasonable MSR can be struck out then you find that you do not have the requisite all weather inner lines of comm. to reach the "line" itself. In fact at the moment we can patrol that area for no more than a weak at a stretch after which there could be 2-3 weeks where significant ares will be left uncontested. Our government is rather lucky that its just infiltration- IF the PLA decides to build a proper bunker 10-15 km into the Indian perception of the LAC they (GOI) will be in for a rude shock.

Even if barely , mate . Then , I presume that the statement that they never bothered to move out of Leh is true ? The official records and history indicates that no efforts and I say none were made to even patrol and maintain any sort of presence in Aksai Chin despite it being the ' declared border ' and again something which wasn't ' nothing open for negotiations ' . Do you not find it strange that the IA couldn't muster enough men to station in the area ? I am not saying that this would have been an easy task but surely despite all the difficulty presented by the terrain , it wasn't something undoable , isn't it ? Nobody's talking about ground dominance , engaging the Red Army or fighting a war with a token force . The problem here lies with the fact that not even the token force or few men were there in the area in '62 , otherwise how could the Chinese Govt build a road through the territory without Indians even suspecting it before '59 when they actually announced it ? The whole region will be taken properly by the PLA in the Sino-Indian war , in the coming years .

I can assure you that much that Indians will be in much trouble at the same place again if the Reds decide to attack now . Still , you haven't quite matched the PLA's logistics line in the region from what I have read . Sure , the situation is different now from what it was in '62 but still the disparity is astonishing . See how Beijing sustains its troops in the hostile region , infiltrates at will , enforces its claims , flexes its muscles and takes a few concessions . I do not see anything like that happening in the near future .

 

[Azlan]

hahahha .... My Darling sree45 .... Hum aap ko itna pyar karaingay itna k itna k pyar kar kar k he aap ko mar dain gay . .. WAR ke zarorat thori ha .. War to mardon k sath hoti ha ... India k Khoobsurat Sharmeelay nawjawano sa thori na war hoti ha .., waisay bhe yeh sharmilay larkay India walay patli tango walay Hamain bara pasand hain ...... Kash k Hum Juda na hotay ....

 

[Azlan]

Dilinger sb , there are Different kind of petrols , As far Mountainous areas like these or any other in the world basically Petrol units are only for Back up where as Different type of GIS info systems are used as well as Wireless Propagation is very closely monitored Through RF Analysis Tools which can Provide Tracks of enemies on the border Areas

 

[dexter]

I know many indians will disagree or call me non patriotic and many will say this is already posted.

Kargil War was fought mainly to gain control over peak 5353 (Tiger hill).As this peak has a clear view of india's neck that is NH 1D .This highyway is strategic root betwwen siachen and LEh.As this peak is of very strategical imporatance India was unable to gain it back and pakistan can anytime have an upperhand on india by shelling or destroying this highway.This time there are solid bunkers and an iquipped Pakistan army.

Do you think it is a serious issue to worry?

 

[Lostsoldier]

huh ? aksai chin was never under indian control ! The pakistani regulars/lashkars were almost about to reach Srinagar when the accession was signed and Indian forces began pushing them back.. we reclaimed back all the valleys and a lot of the surrounding mountains ! After a point the IA didn't had the wherewithal to have a proper supply line so they stopped ! That is where u see the LoC now !

u mean to say in 1962 we didnt loose land?

Here is the issue, you DON'T know anything about where Point 5353 is, the maps your referencing to are not accurate. The LOC isn't a line like the way people perceive it to be. There are peaks where the ridge extends from our side to theirs- so what should we do, take the whole ridge- share it perhaps? Till you don't know the actual geography of the area you will keep making this mistake.

i knw sir its not a line its a decide area of division but u didnt answer my query

 

[shiv]

u mean to say in 1962 we didnt loose land?

ofc we lost land ! anyways .. i am off this thread ! u started this thread "India loosing Kargil War" and your queries are not on topic !

troll alert !!!