India lost in Afghan endgame.

[MilSpec]

key words -- June 2014.

Please tell us sir, how has pakistan's afghan policy changed?

 

[FaujHistorian]

Please tell us sir, how has pakistan's afghan policy changed?

Let Afghans have the election, (started long before June 2014)

Let's kill the bad guys in NWA. (started in june 2014, and first time in 10+ years US generals stopped and took notice)

Both of these had a positive effect on us and them and the USA.

Indians should be happy with this change in events.

 

[MilSpec]

Let Afghans have the election, (started long before June 2014)

Let's kill the bad guys in NWA. (started in june 2014, and first time in 10+ years US generals stopped and took notice)

Both of these had a positive effect on us and them and the USA.

Indians should be happy with this change in events.

If that happens I will be the first one to acknowledge Pakistan achivements...You still curse India for allying itself with Comies in the 80's... With the same logic it will take a lot of time for the us to forget pakistan-Taliban nexus....

 

[IND151]

All we want is theabsolute peace in our Jammu and Kashmir.
By investing in billions we are expecting that.And now BSA is signed .So it is cleared.All the seniors members in here knows we already have 4 consultes in Afghan region.
Well I think our money is not wasted.
But this was not the case in 1990s where Talibans fight against Massouds forces and Pakistan give logistics and sometimes Air support.That is not the case in here not any more.
US is still remains as a dominant force in Afghanistan.

Very well put.

Other benefits will be bonus for us.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Indians forgot why HinduKush mountain range is called Hindu Kush if USA is defeated along with other strongest powers what the hell Indians were thinking that Afghans specially the Taliban would have tolerated them never Sir they shouldn't have entered Afghanistan even in small numbers but now their are great chances that after USA and Nato with drawl the focus of Afghan Fighters may shift to Kashmir and India

Only a matter of time. Those fighters have some favors to pay to the indian occupation forces.

 

[FaujHistorian]

India lost in Afghan endgame​

By Kanwal Sibal

Issue Courtesy: Mail Today | Date : 27 Aug , 2013

The situation in Afghanistan is full of uncertainties and the prospects of India&[HASHTAG]#8217[/HASHTAG];s neighbourhood becoming even more difficult for us are real. We have little control over the situation in Afghanistan, however popular we may be with its government and people. We have invested considerable political and financial capital in Afghanistan for protecting our longer term interests in the region, but adequate returns are not guaranteed.

Afghanistan has been a conflict zone for over three decades now. To our misfortune it became a cold war battleground between the Soviet Union and the US, with the result that both an extremist version of Islam and Pakistan became powerful actors in shaping developments there under the US lead. Until then, Pakistan was not a dominant factor in Afghanistan internally and externally. Later, as US attention moved towards Iraq, Pakistan saw an opportunity to control Afghanistan strategically by using Islamic fanaticism embodied by the Taliban as a tool.

Hare & Hounds

The deliberate Islamisation of Pakistan by Zia-ul-Haq prepared a favourable ground for the creation of the Taliban under Benazir Bhutto&[HASHTAG]#8217[/HASHTAG];s civilian government. The nurturing of extremist religious groups by the Pakistan military for terrorist attacks against India was another facet of the growing Islamization of Pakistan&[HASHTAG]#8217[/HASHTAG];s society and the practical use of these forces for political ends, as in Afghanistan&[HASHTAG]#8217[/HASHTAG];s case.

Religious fanatics in our region gained further force with Al Qaida&[HASHTAG]#8217[/HASHTAG];s entry on the back of the Taliban. These forces overplayed their hand in attacking the US on September 11, inviting an American military riposte that ousted the Taliban from power. That Osama Laden got refuge in Pakistan for many years in different places points to the existence of an effective network of Islamist cells in Pakistan, which raises concerns for the future. When, with Taliban&[HASHTAG]#8217[/HASHTAG];s ouster, US attention turned towards Iraq for the second time, Pakistan once again saw an opportunity to regain its lost ground in Afghanistan through the Taliban groups it continued sheltering on its territory.

With Taliban groups targeting NATO forces from safe-havens in Pakistan, US pressure on Pakistan to control these groups was inevitable. This exposed the inherent contradiction in Pakistan&[HASHTAG]#8217[/HASHTAG];s posture on religious extremism and terrorism, with the Pakistan state and society, at one level, nurturing these forces, while, at another level, acting against them under external constraint. This policy of running with the hare and hunting with the hound has exposed Pakistan to accusations of duplicity and double-faced policies by its western supporters, a discovery India made years earlier. But this awakening has not brought about any drastic change in the West&[HASHTAG]#8217[/HASHTAG];s handling either of Pakistan per se or its destabilizing ambitions in Afghanistan.

The Third Time

The irony from India&[HASHTAG]#8217[/HASHTAG];s point of view is that having fortified the virus of Islamism in the region and then having combated it at great human, financial and military cost, the US and the West are once again reaching out to the same forces, this time not to defeat a cold war rival but to cover up their own retreat with a veneer of semi-success. The accommodation of the Taliban in the mid-1990s was for immediate economic allurements, with no concern that such obscurantist forces would spread terror to the US. The US overlooked the problematic aspects of Pakistan&[HASHTAG]#8217[/HASHTAG];s conduct because of tepid India-US relations. Pakistan was a useful balancing factor.

Today India and the US have a strategic partnership. The US has a grand vision of linking Central Asia and South Asia through a new silk road, with energy projects like TAPI as a centre-piece. It seems to want to repeat its previous mis-reading of Taliban&[HASHTAG]#8217[/HASHTAG];s Islamic fanaticism by believing that its commitment to break links with Al Qaida would protect the US from future terrorist attacks. This will be the third time that the US will take Afghanistan off its radar screen, benefiting once again the Taliban with its religious ideology and Pakistan with its strategic ambitions while compromising India&[HASHTAG]#8217[/HASHTAG];s interests despite the so-called transformation of India-US ties.

In a hard place

India will be hard put to secure its interests in Afghanistan in the conditions under which the US intends to withdraw. The Afghan security forces may be able to prevent an outright Taliban military victory, but providing security all over the country against Taliban depredations would be outside their capacity, given their present ability to stage terrorist attacks even in highly protected areas such as Kabul. Sending more security personnel to protect our projects is not a solution.

Though we have a strategic partnership agreement with Afghanistan that provides also for arms support, even if we were to step up our training assistance considerably and provide some combat equipment, it would not substitute for the Afghan army&[HASHTAG]#8217[/HASHTAG];s lack of air support, heavy weaponry and intelligence capability. Pakistan is determined to neutralize India&[HASHTAG]#8217[/HASHTAG];s influence in Afghanistan, as the attack on our Jalalabad consulate indicates unfortunately. It is allergic to the idea of an India-friendly Afghan government. It finds it intolerable that we train Afghan military officers in India when their offers to provide such training are being rebuffed. Nawaz Sharif has begun voicing the charge that India is behind some disturbances in Pakistan.

We can help reduce the threats to Afghanistan&[HASHTAG]#8217[/HASHTAG];s internal stability in consultation with Iran, Russia and the Central Asian states. China cannot be relied upon because in any scenario it will be with Pakistan and leverage its influence with the Taliban to protect Chinese interests. Pakistan is central to China&[HASHTAG]#8217[/HASHTAG];s strategy to economically exploit Afghanistan and link it and neighbouring Central Asian states to its upgraded Karakoram highway connected to Gwadar. All in all, our stakes in Afghanistan are high but our means to protect them insufficient and uncertain.

India lost in Afghan endgame » Indian Defence Review

I disagree. India has too many cards in its hands

So it ain't over until its over.

All we want is theabsolute peace in our Jammu and Kashmir..

it is lot cheaper to let kashmiris decide.

Why keep on roasting them in a pressure cooker.

 

[illusion8]

I disagree. India has too many cards in its hands

So it ain't over until its over.



it is lot cheaper to let kashmiris decide.

Why keep on roasting them in a pressure cooker.

What cards?

Afghan policy was Manmohan's policy, the new govt isn't too keen on it.

The dispute is a bilateral one - the "kashmiri" base on your side has been severely eroded by other state settlers into your part of kashmir...so there isn't going to be a genuine decision even if we consider it. Besides.. the chinese need to return back the parts that pakistan handed over to them.

As for the wahaabi / deobandi sunni's (no troll intended) in Indian side of kashmir - they can very well cross over and conjoin with their "brethren" on the other side if they so desire.

Kashmir is a dead turkey - pak fauj keeps it alive just to keep siphoning off billions of dough from the poor pakistanis.

 

[FaujHistorian]

What cards?

Afghan policy was Manmohan's policy, the new govt isn't too keen on it.

The dispute is a bilateral one - the "kashmiri" base on your side has been severely eroded by other state settlers into your part of kashmir...so there isn't going to be a genuine decision even if we consider it. Besides.. the chinese need to return back the parts that pakistan handed over to them.

As for the wahaabi / deobandi sunni's (no troll intended) in Indian side of kashmir - they can very well cross over and conjoin with their "brethren" on the other side if they so decide.

Oh baba Ji

please do not remain stuck in 1947.

Things have changed drastically since then. Please move forward.

Pakistan doesn't have to post 100s of 1000s of troops to keep Kashmiris in a pressure cooker like in ICK.

Just imagine your living in Kerala with 100s of 1000s of troops watching every move of yours. disrespecting your women, killing your youth for 70 forking years.

Have yhou meray bhai lost all your humane feelings?

Are you so prejudiced to ignore the horrific outcome of police state being imposed on ICK residents?

Sure we can all sit around sip tea, and talk $hit

but in ICK there are real people, real men, real woman, and real kids suffering immensely.

Please be serious.

 

[Zarvan]

Only a matter of time. Those fighters have some favors to pay to the indian occupation forces.

Let USA and NATO run away from Afghanistan soon entire focus will turn towards our very own and beloved India.

 

[FaujHistorian]

Let USA and NATO run away from Afghanistan soon entire focus will turn towards our very own and beloved India.

Actually USA and NATO are supporting Gen. Raheel 1000%.

They are not running away, they are beefing up Pakistani army.

 

[Zarvan]

Actually USA and NATO are supporting Gen. Raheel 1000%.

They are not running away, they are beefing up Pakistani army.

They would run one big loss in a single day and they would pack up and leave you just wait and watch.

 

[illusion8]

Oh baba Ji

please do not remain stuck in 1947.

Things have changed drastically since then. Please move forward.

Pakistan doesn't have to post 100s of 1000s of troops to keep Kashmiris in a pressure cooker like in ICK.

Just imagine your living in Kerala with 100s of 1000s of troops watching every move of yours. disrespecting your women, killing your youth for 70 forking years.

Have yhou meray bhai lost all your humane feelings?

Are you so prejudiced to ignore the horrific outcome of police state being imposed on ICK residents?

Sure we can all sit around sip tea, and talk $hit

but in ICK there are real people, real men, real woman, and real kids suffering immensely.

Please be serious.

Dude- kashmir is the only sunni majority state in India - assume it to be a country - now compare it to the other sunni majority states like pakistan afghanistan syria yemen libya palestine somalia iraq even turkey etc etc. now chachaji tell me in which of these countries I mentioned is the military not active internally or where there are no "real people, real men, real woman, and real kids suffering immensely" ?.

Yeah zainiath ka kasur hai. If there is a sunni majority in any state of US or UK too - they too will end up militarising and policing the whole state. There too there will be thousands of jihadis baying for blood.

Kashmir is hundred times better than most of the countries I mentioned because of the control that's maintained.

 

[FaujHistorian]

Dude- kashmir is the only sunni majority state in India - assume it to be a country - now compare it to the other sunni majority states like pakistan afghanistan syria yemen libya palestine somalia iraq even turkey etc etc. now chachaji tell me in which of these countries I mentioned is the military not active internally or where there are no "real people, real men, real woman, and real kids suffering immensely" ?.

Yeah zainiath ka kasur hai. If there is a sunni majority in any state of US or UK too - they too will end up militarising and policing the whole state.

That analysis is based on EXTREME prejudice.

sorry to see.

They would run one big loss in a single day and they would pack up and leave you just wait and watch.

Not sure what you are trying to say by quoting my post.

 

[illusion8]

That analysis is based on EXTREME prejudice.

sorry to see.


Not sure what you are trying to say by quoting my post.

That is based on facts and what's happening on the ground - I would love to see you prove me wrong. Why do you think the oil rich gulf countries are peaceful? Imagine if it wasn't for the vice like control maintained by the shiekhs.

 

[FaujHistorian]

That is based on facts and what's happening on the ground - I would love to see you prove me wrong. Why do you think the oil rich gulf countries are peaceful? Imagine if it wasn't for the vice like control maintained by the shiekhs.

Bhai jaan,

you are jumping all over the place like an injured bambi.

Just compare Kashmiris living across LOC and see which side is moving around freely without fear.

PCK kashmiris with same religion same sect are extremely peaceful thus no need to place 100s of 1000s of troops.
While ICK Kashmiris with same religion same sect are in a pressure cooker 100s of 1000s of troops for 70 long long long years.

Comparing a peaceful and enlightened Kashmiri with uncouth tribals is what I said your views based on EXTREME prejudice.

Sorry to see a good poster like you parroting low level propaganda while utterly refusing to you your own pov.