India Looks At Purchasing 20 BAE Hawk Jet Trainers

[janon]

Isn't the karakoram k8 an intermediate trainer, while hawk is an advanced/LIFT trainer? Does PAF use the K8 for advanced training? I thought PAF uses something else for advanced training, and those are going to be replaced in the future?

 

[SQ8]

Isn't the karakoram k8 an intermediate trainer, while hawk is an advanced/LIFT trainer? Does PAF use the K8 for advanced training? I thought PAF uses something else for advanced training, and those are going to be replaced in the future?

The K-8P is used in the Advanced Jet Training squadron ...and with further deliveries coming over(and the retirement of the FT-5) it will also assume LIFT duties.

 

[Jason bourne]

armed HawK...

 

[RISING SUN]

The BAE Systems Hawk is a British single-engine, advanced jet trainer aircraft.
It has been used in a training capacity and as a low-cost combat aircraft.
The Hawk is still in production with over 900 Hawks sold to 18 customers around the world.
Unit cost £18 million (2003)

The Hongdu JL-8 (Nanchang JL-8), also known as the Karakorum-8, is a two-seat intermediate jet trainer and light attack aircraft designed in the People's Republic of China by China Nanchang Aircraft Manufacturing Corporation.
Role Jet trainer,Light attack
Number built 500+
Unit cost USD $10 million

 

[RISING SUN]

HAWK vs K8
Crew: 2 vs 2
Empty weight: 4,480 kg (9,880 lb) vs 2,687 kg (5,924 lb)
Useful load: 3,000 kg (6,600 lb)
Max takeoff weight: 9,100 kg (20,000 lb) vs 4,330 kg (9,546 lb)
Powerplant: 1× Rolls-Royce Adour Mk. 951 turbofan with FADEC, 29 kN (6,500 lbf) 29 kN vs 1 × Garrett TFE731-2A-2A turbofan, 16.01 kN (3,600 lb)
Maximum speed: Mach 0.84 (1,028 km/h, 638 mph) at altitude vs Mach 0.75 (800 km/h, 498 mph)
Range: 2,520 km (1,360 NM, 1,565 mi) vs 2,250 km (1,398 mi)
Service ceiling: 13,565 m (44,500 ft) vs 13,000 m (42,651 ft)
Rate of climb: 47 m/s (9,300 ft/min) vs ?
Thrust/weight: 0.65 vs ?
Max. airframe load factor: ? vs +7.33 g / -3.0 g
Weapon: 1× 30 mm ADEN cannon, in centreline pod vs 1× 23 mm cannon pod (mounted on centreline hardpoint),
Up to 6,800 lb (3,085 kg) of weapons on five hardpoints, vs total capacity 1,000 kg (2,205 lb) external fuel and ordnance

 

[SQ8]

HAWK vs K8
Crew: 2 vs 2
Empty weight: 4,480 kg (9,880 lb) vs 2,687 kg (5,924 lb)
Useful load: 3,000 kg (6,600 lb)
Max takeoff weight: 9,100 kg (20,000 lb) vs 4,330 kg (9,546 lb)
Powerplant: 1× Rolls-Royce Adour Mk. 951 turbofan with FADEC, 29 kN (6,500 lbf) 29 kN vs 1 × Garrett TFE731-2A-2A turbofan, 16.01 kN (3,600 lb)
Maximum speed: Mach 0.84 (1,028 km/h, 638 mph) at altitude vs Mach 0.75 (800 km/h, 498 mph)
Range: 2,520 km (1,360 NM, 1,565 mi) vs 2,250 km (1,398 mi)
Service ceiling: 13,565 m (44,500 ft) vs 13,000 m (42,651 ft)
Rate of climb: 47 m/s (9,300 ft/min) vs 32 m/s
Thrust/weight: 0.65 vs ?
Max. airframe load factor: ? vs +7.33 g / -3.0 g
Weapon: 1× 30 mm ADEN cannon, in centreline pod vs 1× 23 mm cannon pod (mounted on centreline hardpoint),
Up to 6,800 lb (3,085 kg) of weapons on five hardpoints, vs total capacity 1,000 kg (2,205 lb) external fuel and ordnance

Thank you..

This provides a good comparison that the hawk does have an advantage in terms of airframe performance. With the ability to carry more.
However in Avionics simulation.. the K-8P has the software to simulate the launching of Basic A2A and A2G weaponry.
Where it loses out on simulation capability is its inability to simulate Sensor based threats of SAM sites, radars etc.

But then again.. that is what an extra $8-9 million gets you.

 

[soul hacker]

Keep in mind that we already have Hawk and so it does not make sense to have K8, even if it was little superior.

I looked at K8 and found it to be Chinese, another reason not to buy. I also do not think China is making best jets yet. They are getting their but, I will always Rank, US, Russia and EU Ahead of themUS, Russia and EU Ahead of them.

do you mean
1. F16
2. su30 mki

 

[Gessler]

do you mean
1. F16
2. su30 mki

I think he means F-22/35 and PAK-FA/Su-35BM and EF Typhoon.

---

Hawk sure looks a lot better than K-8P though

 

[Gessler]

BAE Hawk cockpit (Hawk Mk-66) -



K-8 Karakorum cockpit (Venezuela air force) -



I couldn't get any good full-view pics of Hawk Mk-132 from IAF and K-8P from PAF, can someone give
me some pics...?

 

[Archie]

The biggest advantage of Hawk IS that they can be used for light attack incase of emergencies , even RAF uses Hawks for close Air support after the retirement of Harriers from service
single 30mm cannon and Up to 6,800 lb (3,085 kg) of weapons on five hardpoints are specs that actually match JF17/FC1

 

[Abingdonboy]

BAE Hawk cockpit (Hawk Mk-66) -



K-8 Karakorum cockpit (Venezuela air force) -



I couldn't get any good full-view pics of Hawk Mk-132 from IAF and K-8P from PAF, can someone give
me some pics...?

I don't think there are many/any pics of the 132's cockpit. Here are a few RAAF Hawk 127s (not as advanced as the 132s but as close as I can get):

 

[arp2041]

I am repeating one of my questions i asked in some other Hawk thread but is it true that these expensive birds will find no use in a war scenario??

 

[SQ8]

I am repeating one of my questions i asked in some other Hawk thread but is it true that these expensive birds will find no use in a war scenario??

No, the Hawk 132 will be useful in the war scenario..especially in the Airfield defence or Anti-UAV role..
But with the IAF having a sufficient front line force.. It may not be needed.

 

[RISING SUN]

Thank you..

This provides a good comparison that the hawk does have an advantage in terms of airframe performance. With the ability to carry more.
However in Avionics simulation.. the K-8P has the software to simulate the launching of Basic A2A and A2G weaponry.
Where it loses out on simulation capability is its inability to simulate Sensor based threats of SAM sites, radars etc.

But then again.. that is what an extra $8-9 million gets you.

I don't understand what you are trying to say.
JL-8 is designed to have limited capability to deliver air-to-ground weapons, the first rocket attack practice was only completed in May 2011.
vs
HAWK
Up to 6,800 lb (3,085 kg) of weapons on five hardpoints, including 4× AIM-9 Sidewinder or ASRAAM on wing pylons and wingtip rails,1,500 lb (680 kg), limited to one centreline and two wing pylons (Hawk T1)
Apart from that
Hawk was designed to be manoeuvrable and can reach Mach 0.88 in level flight and Mach 1.15 in a dive, thus allowing trainees to experience transonic flight before advancing to a supersonic trainer.
The airframe is very durable and strong, stressed for +9 g, the normal limit in RAF service is +7.5/-4 g.

 

[SQ8]

I don't understand what you are trying to say.
JL-8 is designed to have limited capability to deliver air-to-ground weapons, the first rocket attack practice was only completed in May 2011.
vs
HAWK
Up to 6,800 lb (3,085 kg) of weapons on five hardpoints, including 4× AIM-9 Sidewinder or ASRAAM on wing pylons and wingtip rails,1,500 lb (680 kg), limited to one centreline and two wing pylons (Hawk T1)
Apart from that
Hawk was designed to be manoeuvrable and can reach Mach 0.88 in level flight and Mach 1.15 in a dive, thus allowing trainees to experience transonic flight before advancing to a supersonic trainer.
The airframe is very durable and strong, stressed for +9 g, the normal limit in RAF service is +7.5/-4 g.

I am talking about the software simulation of launching A2A and A2G weapons..
I.e the ability to show a lock or CCIP.. and simulate a weapons release.