India left "disappointed" as US goes ahead with F-16 sale to Pakistan.

[Abingdonboy]

The problem I have here is that , US calls India an strategic ally. (1)
It expects India to stand up for US activities in SCS (2)
Yet does every thing against their own " Strategic Ally ".

If they drop the usage of term " Strategic Ally " when referring to India, I will delete all my comments here regarding this. Simple

To be fair, India is a slippery fish. They call India a "strategic ally" and hope to lure them in with this agenda but India continues to operate a independant foreign policy and is consistently undermining the US efforts elsewhere. If India jumped in with the Americans with both feet then perhaps the US would listen to India that bit more.

Seems like India is a state of US. You are hoping that somehow Pro-India President in US is elected to do something against Pakistan that too merely on words.

Nope, I'm just stating facts. I don't see Trump being president being good for Pakistan, that's all I am saying. He seems to have a good view of India but that is neither here nor there.

 

[LeGenD]

The problem I have here is that , US calls India an strategic ally. (1)
It expects India to stand up for US activities in SCS (2)
Yet does every thing against their own " Strategic Ally ".

If they drop the usage of term " Strategic Ally " when referring to India, I will delete all my comments here regarding this. Simple

Money talks, wise man.

US have been treating India like an ally for years now. US-India Civil Nuclear Deal is proof of this. US also offered India an excellent deal for its MRCA tender.

Your nation miscalculated its moves for its MRCA program. Now don't cry.

I would buy American weapons over French weapons any day.

 

[Humble Analyst]

The problem I have here is that , US calls India an strategic ally. (1)
It expects India to stand up for US activities in SCS (2)
Yet does every thing against their own " Strategic Ally ".

If they drop the usage of term " Strategic Ally " when referring to India, I will delete all my comments here regarding this. Simple

8 conventional planes threaten India? India should be happy that Pakistan is buying defensive weapons. Otherwise the red lines will be crossed earlier during a conflict between India and Pakistan which will not be good for Pakistan, India, region and the World. You are purchasing Rafales upgrading Su 30 buying defense equipment like crazy and trying to block the sale of 8 F16. What options India is leaving for Pakistan?

 

[omega supremme]

You can get a Su-35 for that price.

These are Block 52s. MLU may come later, if they offer it. Separate deal.

Don't know if deal includes options, but PAF Air Chief indicated they wanted more than the eight offered.

Soon u shall hear about SU-35s as well as the deal is somewhere near to completion

 

[Blue Marlin]

India is pushing its luck because it is in a postion to do so and why not? Pakistan has troubled ties with the US and many US lawmakers oppose any sort of dealings with Pakistan- it is a situation rife to exploit.

Pakistan doesn't moan because it is in no postion to do so- India is getting all the latest US equipment paid for in hard cash and enjoys bipartisan support.

If the sale had been blocked it would've been a win but it hasn't- nothing lost.


It's not really obsession. It's about serving national interests.

let me ask you one thing. do you really think you would have been able to block the deal ?
come on even you should know that the usa does not care about your (indian) interests, but its own. and that india is irrelevant in afganistan whilst pakistan is not. heck even the russains said that pakistan is key for a bright future in afganistan.
also this 8 jet deal. really 8 jets are going to turn the balance of power to pakistans favour. not being offence hear buddy but i find india strangly obsessed with pakistan.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

India is pushing its luck because it is in a postion to do so and why not? Pakistan has troubled ties with the US and many US lawmakers oppose any sort of dealings with Pakistan- it is a situation rife to exploit.

Pakistan doesn't moan because it is in no postion to do so- India is getting all the latest US equipment paid for in hard cash and enjoys bipartisan support.

If the sale had been blocked it would've been a win but it hasn't- nothing lost.


It's not really obsession. It's about serving national interests.

Its only 8 jets of yesteryear equipment

 

[Humble Analyst]

The problem I have here is that , US calls India an strategic ally. (1)
It expects India to stand up for US activities in SCS (2)
Yet does every thing against their own " Strategic Ally ".

If they drop the usage of term " Strategic Ally " when referring to India, I will delete all my comments here regarding this. Simple

They have to watch their interest and keep the balance in the area. If Pakistan is very weak in conventional weapons India my be tempted to attack and then it may result in the use of non conventional weapons. Also this gives US some leverage over Pakistan. The World does not revolve around India.

 

[Blue Marlin]

[QUOTE="cloud4000, post: 8152639, member: 172676"


Yes, it's a diplomatic setback for India. Not its first. India tried to block the AH-1Z helicopter sale as well and failed there too. Can't blame them for trying, but they too realize US has its own interests to protect.
[/QUOTE]
that is exactly why the deal went through. pakistan asked for the jets and they were offered to the pakistan pm by obama.
janes said that they would be more advanced than the current blk52+ the already have

 

[The Eagle]

Nope, I'm just stating facts. I don't see Trump being president being good for Pakistan, that's all I am saying. He seems to have a good view of India but that is neither here nor there

I wonder India would be spending a lot to support Trump then, isn't it? but supporting such a guy only being obsessed with Pakistan, wouldn't be an ill minded thing?

Indian-Americans form committee to support Donald Trump - Times of India

 

[Ahmed95]

Well sir, if you have ever gone through international relations you'd know what USA has done. They have always used Pakistan and India as satellite states, for its own interests. India for deterring china mostly and having a say against russia where as Pakistan for Afghanistan. So the term strategic ally doesn't necessarily mean that USA will stop its arms sales to Pakistan, or stop it for india. USA was willing to sell f16s and f18s to india at that time the definition of strategic ally met your definition of the term.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Its only 8 jets of yesteryear equipment

let me ask you one thing. do you really think you would have been able to block the deal ?
come on even you should know that the usa does not care about your (indian) interests, but its own. and that india is irrelevant in afganistan whilst pakistan is not. heck even the russains said that pakistan is key for a bright future in afganistan.
also this 8 jet deal. really 8 jets are going to turn the balance of power to pakistans favour. not being offence hear buddy but i find india strangly obsessed with pakistan.

The game is not over. Now the deal goes to the Congress, there was almost no scope of pressuring the Administration of stopping this deal (unless the Indian government had actively sought it) and in the Congress there is greater opposition to this deal:
India left "disappointed" as US goes ahead with F-16 sale to Pakistan. | Page 20

It might go through but it won't be plain sailing.


And the nature of the product (yesterday's F-16s or F-22s) is rather irrelevent. If you aren't looking to oppose every single deal then what is the point in the MEA at all? Is it in India's interests that Pakistan gets any offensive equipment? No. So all will be opposed where India is able to.

 

[waz]

Well sir, this time it will be different because it will be Trump as the Republican president and his views on Pakistan are well known.

Of the 3 credible contenders for the White House (Sanders, Clinton and Trump), 2 are quite outspoken critics of Pakistan but the third (Sanders) is an unknown entitiy in this regard- foreign policy doesn't seem to be a concern for him.

I'm not saying this will translate into any change of the status quo but I wouldn't be surprised if it did, especaially witha radical like Trump at the helm and with a Republican Congress.

+ the last republican president cleared a civil nuclear deal with India.

Yes he doesn't like Pakistan, neither did Obama much, and at one point even advocated sending troops in. They all change their tune once in power. Anyway, I'm surprised you mentioned Trump considering that he hasn't got a hope without the minority vote, which also cost Mccain and Romney's campaigns. You also do realise that he will also show the door to many Indians working in the US, his speeches about foreign workers taking US jobs are quite eye opening, and forget about any favourable trade deals from him either. He wants to "beat" countries in Asia, that's his own words. Hillary Clinton won't bring anything new , she's been secretary of state remember. Also with the debacle in Libya she is very careful of taking bold steps when it comes to foreign policy now. I agree with you about Sanders.

Dynamics are Changed Sir Republicans Always Come to Power on Conservative Sentiments of American Society
After 9/11 Republicans use Sentiment of US People to Serve Interest of US in Asia & Middle East.
Let Trump Aside Every American Republican Presidential Candidate is Shifted to Negative after OBL incident not only them But US Media & Public Sentiments and US is a Democracy and It Will be Bounded by Compulsion

PS:Republicans Will we will come back to it Sir on Final Results

Conservative sentiments echo with the White population of the US, not the minorities, who have now tipped the balance when it comes to the vote. Look at the last two elections and how they have went.....

Nope we dont need US weapons for countering Chinese . Chinese threat are mainly strategic and main concerns will be ocean region ,IOR,fortunately we have our own ship manufacturing industry .Except Poseidon there in nothing credible from US in there .And subs are the mix of French ( again a big deal),Russian (majority) and Indian.
In near future it would be mainly indigenous .
Of Course US weapons have additional advantage .But look at our inventory all those deals are just for 3 items .C17,C130J and P8i .All of them are unique cant get from other nations including Russia because they dont have .
But again in our inventory we have spare Russian systems .
US suggested two major US Companies Boeing and LM for MMRCA and at the end Rafale won.

This is a fair relation.To counter China we dont need US arms (not compulsory) .

Although it's going off-topic a little but what you listed above is significant equipment, what also of the Apaches? Why didn't you go Russian or French (Eurocopter Tiger) then? What of the talk of the F-35 for the navy? Yes you do have other options, but you are buying such weapons, specifically aimed at Chinese strength.

 

[SrNair]

Yes he doesn't like Pakistan, neither did Obama much, and at one point even advocated sending troops in. They all change their tune once in power. Anyway, I'm surprised you mentioned Trump considering that he hasn't got a hope without the minority vote, which also cost Mccain and Romney's campaigns. You also do realise that he will also show the door to many Indians working in the US, his speeches about foreign workers taking US jobs are quite eye opening, and forget about any favourable trade deals from him either. He wants to "beat" countries in Asia, that's his own words. Hillary Clinton won't bring anything new , she's been secretary of state remember. Also with the debacle in Libya she is very careful of taking bold steps when it comes to foreign policy now. I agree with you about Sanders.



Conservative sentiments echo with the White population of the US, not the minorities, who have now tipped the balance when it comes to he vote. Look at the last two elections and how they have went.....



Although it's going off-topic a little but what you listed above is significant equipment, what also of the Apaches? Why didn't you go Russian or French (Eurocopter Tiger) then? What of the talk of the F-35 for the navy? Yes you do have other options, but you are buying such weapons, specifically aimed at Chinese strength.

None of them are done deal .Be it Apache or F 35 .According to @PARIKRAMA it would be Rafale M not F35 .
Like you said ,if they provoke us more then Apache wont see light in India also .We have LCH in here .
or can buy Russian or French.
Chinese strength is mainly aiming at sea and we have enough indigenous options in there .
Agreed aggressive modernization is because of China .


I dont think so we are talking about US weapons export plan that is not off topic.

 

[waz]

None of them are done deal .Be it Apache or F 35 .According to @PARIKRAMA it would be Rafale M not F35 .
Like you said ,if they provoke us more then Apache wont see light in India also .We have LCH in here .
or can buy Russian or French.
Chinese strength is mainly aiming at sea and we have enough indigenous options in there .
Agreed aggressive modernization is because of China .


I dont think so we are talking about US weapons export plan that is not off topic.

Just a final point, I thought the Apaches were signed and finished with?

 

[Dalit]

Yes he doesn't like Pakistan, neither did Obama much, and at one point even advocated sending troops in. They all change their tune once in power. Anyway, I'm surprised you mentioned Trump considering that he hasn't got a hope without the minority vote, which also cost Mccain and Romney's campaigns. You also do realise that he will also show the door to many Indians working in the US, his speeches about foreign workers taking US jobs are quite eye opening, and forget about any favourable trade deals from him either. He wants to "beat" countries in Asia, that's his own words. Hillary Clinton won't bring anything new , she's been secretary of state remember. Also with the debacle in Libya she is very careful of taking bold steps when it comes to foreign policy now. I agree with you about Sanders.



Conservative sentiments echo with the White population of the US, not the minorities, who have now tipped the balance when it comes to he vote. Look at the last two elections and how they have went.....



Although it's going off-topic a little but what you listed above is significant equipment, what also of the Apaches? Why didn't you go Russian or French (Eurocopter Tiger) then? What of the talk of the F-35 for the navy? Yes you do have other options, but you are buying such weapons, specifically aimed at Chinese strength.

The nationalist Indians are under the illusion that Trump will somehow be their man. They obviously applaud him on his anti-Muslim stance. Trump is not only anti-Muslim, but anti-immigration and anti-globalization i.e. against job outsourcing etc. Many jobs will be brought back home once Trump wins the White House.