India Launches Global Search for Single-Engine Fighter Jets....

[VOR]

Three types is not a big deal, until you realize it's from three countries then a possible fourth type is from yet ANOTHER countries.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

mirages and fulkrums like every other fighter will also get GaN based AESA upgrade starting 2020 and new engines(Mig29 maybe version of kaveri K10)and there life will go beyond 2030 make no mistake about that and there is very strong possibilly of making 126 F16Blk70/72 and 126 rafale in india(TOT.../MII) and 126 LCA MK1a and the 5th gen fighters will come after 2025 or 2030 and thats it

I think you underestimate the time to develop stuff.
Israel has proposed developing GaN based Radar, but have they started development?
Just the components needed may take several years to design, best case.

 

[GR!FF!N]

We are getting Combat Hawks for that role.

you just showed a troll its rightful place.

 

[DJ_Viper]

View attachment 343251

NEW DELHI - India has begun a fresh program to acquire single-engine fighter aircraft to be built in India on the basis of foreign technology, as invitations have been sent privately through Indian Embassies to "some overseas participants" to partake in the program, according to an official at the Ministry of Defence (MoD).
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The title is a little miss-leading. India will be buying the F-16 IN's (call it the block 70). These will be built in numbers in India (close to 200 I think over long term). With TOT, this will be the last modern purchase India will do as they would use their experience from LCA and the F-16 and won't require further purchases in the future outside of the JSF.

The next purchase being discussed with the US is the JSF. Initially 40 planes, but there is no agreement as of yet. But I am sure an order will be placed before 2020. India will be hosting US forces so it will be critical for them to operate on or close to NATO standards. F-16 IN will help with using the combined operational methodology, and the JSF will bring them the top end NATO standard for the future. Personally, I can see India buying 80-100 JSF's over the long haul.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

The title is a little miss-leading. India will be buying the F-16 IN's (call it the block 70). These will be built in numbers in India (close to 200 I think over long term). With TOT, this will be the last modern purchase India will do as they would use their experience from LCA and the F-16 and won't require further purchases in the future outside of the JSF.

The next purchase being discussed with the US is the JSF. Initially 40 planes, but there is no agreement as of yet. But I am sure an order will be placed before 2020. India will be hosting US forces so it will be critical for them to operate on or close to NATO standards. F-16 IN will help with using the combined operational methodology, and the JSF will bring them the top end NATO standard for the future. Personally, I can see India buying 80-100 JSF's over the long haul.

And Gripen E is not meeting NATO standards?
Already Gripen C was meeting NATO standards...

 

[Zain Malik]

The title is a little miss-leading. India will be buying the F-16 IN's (call it the block 70). These will be built in numbers in India (close to 200 I think over long term). With TOT, this will be the last modern purchase India will do as they would use their experience from LCA and the F-16 and won't require further purchases in the future outside of the JSF.

The next purchase being discussed with the US is the JSF. Initially 40 planes, but there is no agreement as of yet. But I am sure an order will be placed before 2020. India will be hosting US forces so it will be critical for them to operate on or close to NATO standards. F-16 IN will help with using the combined operational methodology, and the JSF will bring them the top end NATO standard for the future. Personally, I can see India buying 80-100 JSF's over the long haul.

Neither is F-16 only being considered by the India nor the India is going for JSF.
They have already working on 2 5th gen platforms
1- PAK FA
2- AMCA

Now it will be stupidity if someone says there are 3 5th gen platforms being considered by the Indians..
Come Back to F-16.. indian officials reported the CONS of F-16 fighter that it has a 40 years old airframe which can not be upgraded further more... Now 2 options left
As per Indians there are three platforms they are considering as they said is in Brackets:

1- (Lockheed Martin) For sure F-16
2- (SAAB) Gripen E
3- Russia (well no idea what they meant for this)

 

[DJ_Viper]

And Gripen E is not meeting NATO standards?
Already Gripen C was meeting NATO standards...

Gripen isn't made by the Lockheed Martin. This is a strategic deal with the US. If you break everything down, India and the US would be the largest military alliance than US + the Europeans. Plus India being next to China, she needs to work with the US. Since she'll be housing the US forces, it makes perfect sense to get the same equipment so both the militaries can work closely together, on the same equipment and tactics. Thanks

Neither is F-16 only being considered by the India nor the India is going for JSF.
They have already working on 2 5th gen platforms
1- PAK FA
2- AMCA

Now it will be stupidity if someone says there are 3 5th gen platforms being considered by the Indians..
Come Back to F-16.. indian officials reported the CONS of F-16 fighter that it has a 40 years old airframe which can not be upgraded further more... Now 2 options left
As per Indians there are three platforms they are considering as they said is in Brackets:

1- (Lockheed Martin) For sure F-16
2- (SAAB) Gripen E
3- Russia (well no idea what they meant for this)

Sir, you are entitled to your opinion. I am speaking from what I know. India just recently signed a pact to host the US forces. What that means is that there was a broader agreement in turning the US-Indo military alliance on the same level, which means, equipment, training and tactics should be the same between the two forces. Which then requires India to go buy the American equipment, which is what I explained in my post.

Next, the F-16 IN isn't a "40" year old air-frame or anything. It is actually considered a 4.5 gen and can also be made stealth optimized like the new F-15. Consider this a block 70 of the F-16. If I follow your logic, then the Rafale is a derivative of Mirage 2k, which then is a derivative or Mirage F-1. So does that make Rafale essentially a 70 year old air-frame? F-16's built today with today's tech, will have a lifeline of 40+ years. There is no 40 year old anything there. Thank you.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Gripen isn't made by the Lockheed Martin. This is a strategic deal with the US. If you break everything down, India and the US would be the largest military alliance than US + the Europeans. Plus India being next to China, she needs to work with the US. Since she'll be housing the US forces, it makes perfect sense to get the same equipment so both the militaries can work closely together, on the same equipment and tactics. Thanks

Somehow Germany seems to be doing fine in NATO without F-15/F-16/F-35 and M1Ax Abrams.
So you are presenting its as advantage, but in the real world, it is pure BS.

Anyway, in 2025, the US would be flying F-35, no commonality with F-16 is there.
Are ther plans to upgrade US F-16 to F-16V?

Any remaining F-16s would be very different from F-16IN.
US F-16s would not be able to use the Weapons (Meteor etc.) planned for IAF.

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

Try JF17

Sorry we don't like Chinese maal.

 

[DJ_Viper]

Somehow Germany seems to be doing fine in NATO without F-15/F-16/F-35 and M1Ax Abrams.
So you are presenting its as advantage, but in the real world, it is pure BS.

Anyway, in 2025, the US would be flying F-35, no commonality with F-16 is there.
Are ther plans to upgrade US F-16 to F-16V?

Any remaining F-16s would be very different from F-16IN.
US F-16s would not be able to use the Weapons (Meteor etc.) planned for IAF.

Sir, Germany and the US had fought the WWII. Not sure how you "forgot that". Plus the Germans have their own defense industry and a huge USAF and US military presence to protect them from all evil . So if anything happened, they will have the USAF F-15's, F-18's and F-22's flying in no time.

Germany isn't a big power, neither does it have a billion people population, nor is it a Third largest economy, or having ambitions to be a regional power. India has all four going for her. I hope this makes sense. India and the US will form a force bigger and stronger than NATO. Just imagine the headcount of the military personal, assets and the area. Much beyond the tiny Europe.

I don't have any relationship to India just to keep the facts straight. It is a Pakistani forum. I am just speaking of the reality here.

On the F-16's, if the Pentagon gets their ways, the F-16's will not be upgraded to F-16 V. The standard platform will be the JSF as the Pentagon wants 2400 of those for $ 400 billion ( just like they bought the F-16's back in 80's). Majority of the F-16 will probably go to AMARC, the remainder will be sold to countries for a serious discounted price. Thanks

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Sir, Germany and the US had fought the WWII. Not sure how you "forgot that". Plus the Germans have their own defense industry and a huge USAF and US military presence to protect them from all evil . So if anything happened, they will have the USAF F-15's, F-18's and F-22's flying in no time.

Germany isn't a big power, neither does it have a billion people population, nor is it a Third largest economy, or having ambitions to be a regional power. India has all four going for her. I hope this makes sense. India and the US will form a force bigger and stronger than NATO. Just imagine the headcount of the military personal, assets and the area. Much beyond the tiny Europe.

I don't have any relationship to India just to keep the facts straight. It is a Pakistani forum. I am just speaking of the reality here.

On the F-16's, if the Pentagon gets their ways, the F-16's will not be upgraded to F-16 V. The standard platform will be the JSF as the Pentagon wants 2400 of those for $ 400 billion ( just like they bought the F-16's back in 80's). Majority of the F-16 will probably go to AMARC, the remainder will be sold to countries for a serious discounted price. Thanks

And You totally miss the point, which is:
It is entirely possible to cooperate with US forces without using US equipment.
And you confirm that if India does buy F-16 they will not use the same equipment as the US forces.

 

[DJ_Viper]

And You totally miss the point, which is:
It is entirely possible to cooperate with US forces without using US equipment.
And you confirm that if India does buy F-16 they will not use the same equipment as the US forces.

Sir, I didn't miss the point. I just explained as to where India is headed and what I know. If you are their defense procurement head, do let me know and I'll obviously accept your position. What I am writing is what the US is working with India on already. There is nothing new in what I wrote. Also, to your previous example, the US didn't pivot the Germans to counter the Chinese. India will be doing that. So I hope you can put 2+2 together.

On the F-16, the IN version, will be built for India and will be more advanced than the previous versions of the F-16's built as this is considered a block 70 (unofficial obviously). The equipment will obviously be what the US uses as the manufacturer is a US company. But like Israel or some other buyers, the Indians might ask LM to add some customization, or if the entire block will be built in India, they can do it themselves with LM's help. Thanks.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Sir, I didn't miss the point. I just explained as to where India is headed and what I know. If you are their defense procurement head, do let me know and I'll obviously accept your position. What I am writing is what the US is working with India on already. There is nothing new in what I wrote. Also, to your previous example, the US didn't pivot the Germans to counter the Chinese. India will be doing that. So I hope you can put 2+2 together.

On the F-16, the IN version, will be built for India and will be more advanced than the previous versions of the F-16's built as this is considered a block 70 (unofficial obviously). The equipment will obviously be what the US uses as the manufacturer is a US company. But like Israel or some other buyers, the Indians might ask LM to add some customization, or if the entire block will be built in India, they can do it themselves with LM's help. Thanks.

The US and India is seeking closer cooperation, that is clear.
You are arguing that the cooperation will work better if India selects the F-16 because of common equipment.
You also acknowledge that the US is unlikely to use the F-16 in such a conflict,
and in any case will not have Block 70.
You fail to acknowledge for some reason that the US can cooperate with other NATO countries
using NATO compatible gear.
Your four points about India is totally irrelevant. NATO is facing Russia in Europe.

India might select the F-16 as a gesture to the US, and I do not doubt that they can find some other
reason when announcing a decision, but that is besides the point.

 

[DJ_Viper]

The US and India is seeking closer cooperation, that is clear.
You are arguing that the cooperation will work better if India selects the F-16 because of common equipment.
You also acknowledge that the US is unlikely to use the F-16 in such a conflict,
and in any case will not have Block 70.
You fail to acknowledge for some reason that the US can cooperate with other NATO countries
using NATO compatible gear.
Your four points about India is totally irrelevant. NATO is facing Russia in Europe.

India might select the F-16 as a gesture to the US, and I do not doubt that they can find some other
reason when announcing a decision, but that is besides the point.

Sir, I don't think you are paying attention to what I am writing. Its also pretty clear that you really have a wrong understanding of India or what she really is...... and her capacity!! While I can appreciate the love for your motherland, I am also going to be saying the reality, so no disrespect intended.

1) The cooperation has nothing to do with the F-16. Obviously, if you had the same equipment, it would be a much faster net-centric integration. Not sure if you know how that works!

2) India isn't going to give any gesture to the US. The US has already taken India out of the poverty hole it was in, to a shinny new regional economy and military power's status. I think no matter how much you thank the US, it ain't enough.

3) Mr. Modi has been desperately wanting "make in India" and the story has F-16 in it everywhere. So you need to ask Modi why is he begging for someone capable to develop jets inside India......this would be a favor to India. Not the other way around. Sorry if this doesn't fit your mindset. India isn't a super power or the most modern country on earth to sustain such activity yet. That's the truth.

4) Which conflict are you referring to? The F-16 IN will be the block 70. The US would probably upgrade their F-16's to the new standards (AESA, Amraam-D's), till the JSF is available in large quantities everywhere. Thanks

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Sir, I don't think you are paying attention to what I am writing. Its also pretty clear that you really have a wrong understanding of India or what she really is...... and her capacity!! While I can appreciate the love for your motherland, I am also going to be saying the reality, so no disrespect intended.

1) The cooperation has nothing to do with the F-16. Obviously, if you had the same equipment, it would be a much faster net-centric integration. Not sure if you know how that works!

2) India isn't going to give any gesture to the US. The US has already taken India out of the poverty hole it was in, to a shinny new regional economy and military power's status. I think no matter how much you thank the US, it ain't enough.

3) Mr. Modi has been desperately wanting "make in India" and the story has F-16 in it everywhere. So you need to ask Modi why is he begging for someone capable to develop jets inside India......this would be a favor to India. Not the other way around. Sorry if this doesn't fit your mindset. India isn't a super power or the most modern country on earth to sustain such activity yet. That's the truth.

4) Which conflict are you referring to? The F-16 IN will be the block 70. The US would probably upgrade their F-16's to the new standards (AESA, Amraam-D's), till the JSF is available in large quantities everywhere. Thanks

I read what you are writing, and You deviate from what started the discussion.

In light of the pending cooperation with the US, Will India have any benefit in selecting F-16 over Gripen E?

That is the question where I disagreed, the rest is you trying to force an entry into an open doorway.

* Gripen E meets NATO standards.
* Pentagon does not (according to You) want to upgrade US F-16 to Block 70.
* It is unclear that older F-16s would be used in a conflict with China. F-22/35 much more likely.
* If India would use F-16, they would use DIFFERENT equipment than USAF.
* USAF would have to interact with Rafale/Su-30MKI/Tejas anyway.

The cooperation with the US will work as well if India selects the Gripen.
They have asked Sweden, US and Russia about MII single jet fighter.
Why ask several countries if the decision is already made?