India, Israeli To Develop US$2.47 Billion Worth Barak II Project

[foxhound]

Salaam!

News Update:

India, Israeli To Develop US$2.47 Billion Worth Barak II Project

Ref:http://www.india-defence.com/reports-3435
Dated 13/7/2007
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India has started a 2.5-billion-dollar joint venture with Israel to develop an advanced range surface-to-air missile capable of detecting and destroying hostile aircraft, missiles and spy planes, news reports said Friday.

India's Cabinet Committee on Security chaired by Prime Minister Manmohan Singh on Thursday approved the project between the Defence Research and Development Organization and Israel Aerospace Industries for developing the missile system which would have a range of about 70 kilometres, the Times of India daily reported.

The venture would work towards developing an air defence system for the Indian Air Force to replace its ageing Soviet-era Pechoura missile system.

The Israeli help comes after repeated delays in the indigenous Akash missile project that is still to undergo user trials, the Indian Express newspaper reported.

Meanwhile, sources told the IANS news agency that 18 command and launch systems would be built for the new missile system. The new missile is likely to be an advanced version of the Israeli Spyder quick-reaction missile which has an effective range of 55 kilometres.

India and Israel are already in a 14-billion-rupee project to develop an extended-range version of the Barak missile that is deployed on frontline Indian Navy warships. The next-generation Barak will have a 70-kilometre range against the 10-kilometre radius of the existing missile.

India and Israel have increased cooperation in varied fields particularly in military and intelligence ventures since the establishment of diplomatic relations in 1992.

According government estimates, Israel has become India's second biggest defence supplier after Russia, providing military equipment worth 1.6 billion dollars in 2006.

India has already acquired the Green Pine early-warning radar from Israel.

Other joint-venture projects are underway for spy planes, electronic warfare systems and AWACS (airborne warning and control systems), while Israel is helping India with the modernization of its Soviet-era fighter jets and tanks.

Haartez Reports
India and Israel will jointly develop a new generation of medium-range surface-to-air missiles in a $2.47 billion project that India hopes will secure its strategic assets, Indian newspapers reported this week.

India's Cabinet Committee on Security approved the joint venture Thursday, according to Indian newspaper The Economic Times.

In an article Friday, The Times of India called the project "yet another indicator that Indo-Israeli strategic ties are zooming full-steam ahead, with India buying Israeli military equipment worth a whopping $1.6 billion just in 2006 alone."

The missile system, which is expected to take four to five years to develop, is capable of detecting and destroying aircraft, missiles and drones at a range of 70 kilometers, the Times of India reported.

It quoted an unnamed source as saying that each of the 18 firing units will come equipped with a command and control center, an acquisition radar, a guidance radar and three launchers with eight missiles each.

The missile system development is an extension of a $480 million Israel Aerospace Industries project, launched in January 2006, to develop a supersonic 60-kilometer missile defense system for the Indian navy, the paper said.

 

[solid snake]

I can't believe a country with a population less than Karachi's is capable of 'helping' a country the size of India. Simply astounding.

 

[Bull]

I can't believe a country with a population less than Karachi's is capable of 'helping' a country the size of India. Simply astounding.

Very true, Israelis are indeed incredible.

 

[Contrarian]

Its a matter of their survival. They HAVE to be good, or they will simply be killed off. All of them, no exception.

Have you ever wondered why Israeli Pilots are so damn good? Its their level of motivation. They know, that if they arent good enough, if they screw up, if they let one missile pass or one plane pass, the result might just be their own home destroyed.

This, i find is the single most interesting and amazing thing about Israel.

 

[rt000]

well you all know what pakistani airmen did to them in the arab-israeli war.we truely took them out of the sky if you remember their air cheif marshals comments

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Originally Posted by solid snake
I can't believe a country with a population less than Karachi's is capable of 'helping' a country the size of India. Simply astounding.

Well when you consider the following facts it becomes apparent why;

Israel has the highest ratio of university degrees per capita in the world.

Israel produces more scientific papers per capita than any other nation in the world - by a large margin.

Israel has the highest number of scientists and technicians per capita in the world - by a large margin.

Israel has the highest number of engineers per capita in the world.

Israel has the highest number of PhD's per capita in the world.

Israel has the highest number of Physicians per capita in the world.

www.israelemb.org/la/media/ALetterFromYariv/L9.htm - 21k -

Education, education, education....

 

[joey]

I can't believe a country with a population less than Karachi's is capable of 'helping' a country the size of India. Simply astounding.

Its not a matter of helping someone alone, but a matter of mutual co-operation, We have much to learn from Israel as they have to from us.

We evaluated the S300 series they evaluated SM2 series, both rejected the same, rewached consensus opted for joint developement of the same.

And why are you posting it here? it has already been discussed elsewhere.

The unique thing of Israel is they does the last 10% of a project system, and it matters a LOT.


Cross posting from here,

https://defence.pk/forums/showthread.php?t=316&page=33


Many Media has reported things wrongly but here are certain aspects I'll like to say,

Barak 2/NG/8 Whatever you might call it is a JV which was not clear due to a IAI bribery scandal a few years back, but now after this years MOD release of the same and press release it is clear. in Addition to the same IAF chipped in for a JV regarding Barak ER a new LRSAM.

Previously we have had option for procuring S300PMU (We evaluiated S300V for sure) but now Barak ER will be replaced with full IPR and as a JV than merely buying S300 series.

The Barak-NG is a SAM being developed by the Indian Navy, DRDO and IAI for the Indian and Israeli Navies. It has a range of approximately 70 Kms, as per MOD report.

The Barak-ER or whatever project name is given above to this new project, is a project to develop a brand new area air defence system.

This missile will have a range of 120 km plus. Some reports state 150 Km.

The IAF has some thirty squadrons of Pechoras or fifty "firing units". Each firing unit comprises of the associated radars and missiles and command and control shelter. These were to be replaced by Akash firing units.

Now the IAF was offered the PAC-3 for ATBM role and was evaluating various other M-SAM options to quickly induct while the Akash got ready. So it decided to split the orders between Akash and the 18 M-SAMs. (which was a very naive and idiotic move), as reported by some press.

Instead of these M-SAMs, now the IAF will be procuring this brand new Area defence system aka LR-SAM (good bye S300) from DRDO, which is a brilliant step.

The IN will be getting the Barak-NG. The IAF the Akash & Barak-ER. For Low Level air defence, it will have Spyders, a few Trishuls plus the new DRDO-MBDA JV to develop a Trishul follow on.

For last ditch defence, it will have IGLA-S to be license produced by the BDL, Hyderabad.

Along with this, theres the corresponding overhaul of the IAF's AD network with dozens of brand new radars.


Trishul - It is ready, seeker multipath reflection issue sorted out long ago - closest in performance to Barak1+ Flycatcher .. a few units to be acquired by IAF, Navy has gotten away with it long ago due to its size and requireed modification needed to fit in external ships.

Akash- penultimate user trials this year w/AF (already 56 succesful user trials has been done) - some 32 firing units worth to be ordered---->32 firing units.

The BarakNG for Navy--->4-6 ships at the very minimum..

The Barak-ER above---> 18 firing units

The Maitri LLQRM to follow on from the Trishul with MBDA---> 8 Squadrons of OSA-AKM to be replaced. (With LPI capable Radar heh! )

Program Air Defence and Axo Atmospheric Air defence, ATBM project

Spyder---> 15 Units being procured

By the end of these programs India would have a massive state of the art GBAD system, not to mention the spin off technologies from Active phased array radars of various types, to a plethora of missiles and C3I gear.

Good Show!

But the hypocricy of the money involved is startling including home participation compared to 40 crores for new 1500 hp engine developement for Arjun which was so less, that some private partners jumped out. The actual amount of money involved and Indian participation can only be known after next MOD release but a good over 50% of ER will be direct inputs and long r&d done by DRDO.

 

[Keysersoze]

It's funny but the fact that Israel is sharing so much with a number of countries is apparently hurting their relationship with the U.S.

 

[joey]

^^ Not exactly, US and Israel has understanding between them the reason IAI Kfir got cancelled, They wont threaten US markets ever but will complement or supplement them.

As of JV, It is a JV not some 'sharing'.

As I said Israel makes very selective items but they are invaluable in mordern combat scenario. Litening comes in my mind first.

 

[Indicom]

^^ Not exactly, US and Israel has understanding between them the reason IAI Kfir got cancelled, They wont threaten US markets ever but will complement or supplement them.

As of JV, It is a JV not some 'sharing'.

As I said Israel makes very selective items but they are invaluable in mordern combat scenario. Litening comes in my mind first.

It was Lavi that got cancelled and not Kfir.

 

[foxhound]

AM- Quote:
Originally Posted by solid snake
I can't believe a country with a population less than Karachi's is capable of 'helping' a country the size of India. Simply astounding.

Well when you consider the following facts it becomes apparent why;


Quote:
Israel has the highest ratio of university degrees per capita in the world.

Israel produces more scientific papers per capita than any other nation in the world - by a large margin.

Israel has the highest number of scientists and technicians per capita in the world - by a large margin.

Israel has the highest number of engineers per capita in the world.

Israel has the highest number of PhD's per capita in the world.

Israel has the highest number of Physicians per capita in the world.

http://www.israelemb.org/la/media/AL...omYariv/L9.htm - 21k -

Education, education, education....



Yes you hit the nail....education.....it's amazing what can be achieved when one is educated to a required standard....will other countries (especially in the Muslim world) heed/or take on as a priority for their own nations?...Education!

 

[foxhound]

Malaymishra123 - Its a matter of their survival. They HAVE to be good, or they will simply be killed off. All of them, no exception....

I think any nation that has it's survival at stake...seems to do a lot better. I give credit to the Israeli's for accomplishing so much....even whether it's by hook or crook!

As the above example....I think that Pakistan has to a certain extent done the same....for it's very survival and the meagre resources at it's disposal it has achoeved alot more. With over half it's population not educated and with the limited resources...I can say (without any arrogance) that this very poor country has done remarkable achievements.

1) to achieve a nuclear capability
2) to have the capability to manufacture/develop a whole range of ballistic missiles
3) to have the capability to manufacture/repair major items such as, MBT (tanks), APC's, Artillery
4) To the ability to design Combat aircraft/ overhauling/ building Sophisticated radars/ electronic software/hardware etc.
5) To manufacture major naval units (submarines etc)
6) to have well established/professional leadership/training centres such as PMA Kakul/Staff College/ Nationa defence university etc.
7) To manufacture sophisticated long range cruise missiles etc.
8) to have it's soldiers participate on a number of conflicts and do reasonably well......I mean realistically....Pakistan's allocated resources at it's inception were very very meagre compared to its rival (India). India has always had the numerical and qualitative superiority in manpower and eqipment than Pakistan had....yet India did not do well as it should have.

I think (without any arrogance) that if Pakistan had had India's resources (i'e where pakistan has much more and India has meagre resources)...then without a doubt...India would have been no more in the initial first two conflicts?....what do you think?

 

[foxhound]

Joey - By the end of these programs India would have a massive state of the art GBAD system, not to mention the spin off technologies from Active phased array radars of various types, to a plethora of missiles and C3I gear.


I agree.....it will enhance India's capability tremendously!

 

[Adux]

I think (without any arrogance) that if Pakistan had had India's resources (i'e where pakistan has much more and India has meagre resources)...then without a doubt...India would have been no more in the initial first two conflicts?....what do you think?

Why? What makes you think Indians wont have their survival instincts like the Pakistani's have now, if their roles are reversed. Only israeli's and Pakistani's have it.

Pakistani development of ballistic missile's should be credited to north korea and china. Pakistan though has done quite well, in more case than one is because lack of political will power in india.

 

[Bull]

[I think (without any arrogance) that if Pakistan had had India's resources (i'e where pakistan has much more and India has meagre resources)...then without a doubt...India would have been no more in the initial first two conflicts?....what do you think?

Well thats what everything is about right. Well if China had nothing and Taiwan had everything, then it wud be Taiwan that calls theshot, right.